Christopher Hansard - Tibetan Bon Medicine

[seren]

Phew, thanks for replying, I was beginning to think I didn't exist!

I'm not sure how you measure the quality of anecdotal evidence. More detail? More reliable witnesses? How do you define who's a more reliable witness?

As for quantity well I wonder how many people claim to have been abducted by aliens- yet there's no other proof whatsoever that it's true. Ghosts, father christmas, spirits...all believed in by millions, but that's all they have going for them. How many people in the end gave their religion as "Jedi" in the last census, but it doesn't make it a real religion.

A lot of anecdotal evidence might mean that a subject is worth investigating, if that's what you mean. If there was enough anecdotal evidence that, say, a particular plant had a particular medicinal property, that may be cause to investigate and research those supposed properties. In that sense what you say is correct, and in the case of "spiritual" experiences it's been done, and there *are* explanations of the cause of the outcome. There's a part of the brain- the temporal lobes I believe but I'm sure someone with more understanding than me can confirm- that when stimulated can produce these kinds of experience.

I believe I'm right in saying hallucinogens act in part by affecting seratonin receptors, that's what causes the hallucinations.

Whether hallucinations, spiritual experiences or any kind of religious feeling have any meaning is entirely down to the individual experiencing it; how they choose to interpret it, what meaning *they* choose to give to the firing off of various thingummies (look, I ain't a scientist!) in the brain. In other words, they have no real meaning at all.

If we're talking about healing, well there's the good old well researched placebo effect.

[Cuddles]

Anecdotal evidence is of course always suspect. However, at a certain point the quantity and quality of the evidence brings the cause of the outcomes into question.

No it doesn't.

[mahakala]

Acceptance that there is something to anecdotal evidence leads to the following types of research, for instance:

In 1972 the University of Missouri received the first National Institutes of Health acupuncture grant. Colleagues and I designed a study to compare acupuncture and hypnosis for modulation of experimental pain. We were able to report that acupuncture was not hypnosis. Most important was our finding that when the needles were stimulated by electricity it significantly increased acupuncture's ability to control pain. Although aware of its placebo effect, we were convinced that acupuncture worked by some neuro-physiological mechanism (Ulett and Han 2002). On a trip to China I met Professor JiSheng Han of Beijing Medical University. He showed me that, by transfusion of spinal fluid, he had transferred acupuncture analgesia from a treated to an untreated animal. This proved the neurochemical basis of acupuncture. He then spent thirty years unveiling the biological mechanisms of acupuncture by mapping the anatomical pathways and biochemistry of this ancient practice (Han 1998). He found that with proper electrical stimulation of the nervous system, specific frequencies could effect the gene expression of specific neuropeptides in the central nervous system. Thus he showed that acupuncture could significantly increase the spinal fluid content of substances such as endorphins and dynorphins. These had specific healing actions in the brain and spinal cord. Endorphins, for example, can activate an opioid receptor that is now known to have an important anti-anxiety effect. He also showed that there was a cross-tolerance between acupuncture and morphine in the treatment of drug addiction. Han demonstrated that stimulation could be done with polymer conducting EKG-type pads placed on the surface of the skin over motor points. No "magic needles" were necessary.
By 2001 functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) studies, especially those of Professor Z.H. Cho of the University of California Medical School at Irvine, demonstrated significant supporting evidence of a biological basis for acupuncture. Cho showed that electro-acupuncture stimulation can affect the diencephalic area of the brain, a region that promotes the body's own healing responses. Here sensory stimulation of the hypothalamus enhances homeostasis through activating the autonomic nervous system, balancing hormonal regulation by action of the pituitary gland and effecting anti-pain and limbic system responses (Cho, Wong, and Fallon 2001).

[Cuddles]

Acceptance that there is something to anecdotal evidence leads to the following types of research, for instance:.

Wow, acceptance of anecdotal evidence leads to a load of bollocks. Seriously, you think dribbling about acupuncture somehow supports your case?

[mahakala]

Wow, acceptance of anecdotal evidence leads to a load of bollocks. Seriously, you think dribbling about acupuncture somehow supports your case?

And which case would that be? And could I invite you for a pint of aconite beer while you explain it to me.

[bobdezon]

And which case would that be? And could I invite you for a pint of aconite beer while you explain it to me.

I would give that one a miss cuddles. Aconite contains aconitine which is a deadly alkaloid. I think hes trying to kill you miss marple style

[davron]

Are you sure you two are not the Pizza Guru and the Flying Saucer Man?

The philisophical debate is very amusing to follow, aint had this much fun since getting drunk in a bar in Haifa. Having been inspired by you all to read the Rick Ross stuff again, I noticed there was mention that Pizza Guru and Flying Saucer Man knew each other before the Flying Saucer Man became the all knowing, all seeing, self appointed and only official 'Voice of Tibet'. Sounds like a case of when theives fall out. Any mention of any previous connnection made in the forum is blanked by Flying Saucer Man full stop, code of silence stuff. Pizza Guru cannot comment as he has been banned from the site.


Fun as it is guys. There may be a chance of Dur Bon still being around. It being and oral tradition, well we wont be able to find out until someone stolls up and tells us. Pizza Guru made a pile of cash and has spent it all, how much does Flying Saucer Man make from his venture?

I find them both as dubious as each other, the 'Charitiy Ball Scam' comes to mind when I thin of their activities.

Davron- looking for another bar and ducking rocket grenades.

[davron]

Are you sure you two are not the Pizza Guru and the Flying Saucer Man?

The philisophical debate is very amusing to follow, aint had this much fun since getting drunk in a bar in Haifa. Having been inspired by you all to read the Rick Ross stuff again, I noticed there was mention that Pizza Guru and Flying Saucer Man knew each other before the Flying Saucer Man became the all knowing, all seeing, self appointed and only official 'Voice of Tibet'. Sounds like a case of when theives fall out. Any mention of any previous connnection made in the forum is blanked by Flying Saucer Man full stop, code of silence stuff. Pizza Guru cannot comment as he has been banned from the site.


Fun as it is guys. There may be a chance of Dur Bon still being around. It being and oral tradition, well we wont be able to find out until someone stolls up and tells us. Pizza Guru made a pile of cash and has spent it all, how much does Flying Saucer Man make from his venture?

I find them both as dubious as each other, the 'Charitiy Ball Scam' comes to mind when I think of their activities.

Davron- looking for another bar and ducking rocket grenades.

[davron]

Oh yeah. The bit about all alternative/complimentary medicine being bogus and unproven. Does that include the use of vitamins, minerals and herbs used in nutritional therapy, dietary therapy and naturopathy. Backed by real iffy journals such as the New England Journal of Medicine, British Medical Journal, Lancet, Clinical Nutrition Review etc, etc?

[mahakala]

The question of flying saucer man's motivation is indeed intriguing. For him to put so much effort into it, including his blog, spying on the pizza guru, sending letters and all that........there must be some history or else somebody is paying him. Or perhaps he is like that lone anti-abortionist that stands on the street corner waiving her sign........you know......in the name of God and the Catholic Church, or in this case, The One True Tibetan Religion. Or maybe he has a crush and it is all a racket. According to the RR site PG did once troll for customers in that part of town. The other theory mentioned at RR is that the picture book once listed under PG's name at Amazon was co-authored by FSM and they are having a business squabble. I wish they would tell, but I guess they are wooses in that department.

[mahakala]

Oh yeah. The bit about all alternative/complimentary medicine being bogus and unproven. Does that include the use of vitamins, minerals and herbs used in nutritional therapy, dietary therapy and naturopathy. Backed by real iffy journals such as the New England Journal of Medicine, British Medical Journal, Lancet, Clinical Nutrition Review etc, etc?

Yes of course it does . They are all woos, especially the editors of those tabloids you mentioned.

[seren]

Welcome Davron.

What does taking vitamins cure you of? Isn't it a supplement?
(Those are serious questions btw, I'm not taking the p).

Read this.
And this.


After my calls for patience just a few weeks ago I believe I have finally had enough. In future I'm going for the Cuddles brief n brusque approach.

[mahakala]

Welcome Davron.

What does taking vitamins cure you of? Isn't it a supplement?
(Those are serious questions btw, I'm not taking the p).

Read this.
And this.


After my calls for patience just a few weeks ago I believe I have finally had enough. In future I'm going for the Cuddles brief n brusque approach.

Quite a wonderful supplement being used to treat bi-polar disorder in Canada if you care to look into it.

[mahakala]

[quote=davron;23233]Are you sure you two are not the Pizza Guru and the Flying Saucer Man?

By the way, in response to your query, my name is Christopher Hansard and I'm an alcoholic, urrrggg, I mean my name is Jeffrey Bowe and I'm a scientologist, urrrggg, I mean my name is Rick Ross and I'm a secret agent working for David Icke's reptilian fascimile running for presdient of the United States........you got a problem with that?

[MischiefMonkey]

Welcome Davron.

What does taking vitamins cure you of? Isn't it a supplement?
(Those are serious questions btw, I'm not taking the p).

Read this.
And this.


After my calls for patience just a few weeks ago I believe I have finally had enough. In future I'm going for the Cuddles brief n brusque approach.

Perhaps it would be more appropriate to start another thread (at a time when I'm not about to go off to bed) but I take Angus Castus for 'woman problems' and it does seem to work.

On occasion I take Valerian for sleep problems. Again they seem to work.

I accept it could be the placebo effect, but how do I tell? Although I have occasionally taken valerian for years, and find it comparable to a low dose of Tamazipan (which were handed out like sweeties when I was last in hospital), I was very sceptical about Angus Castus. Other suppliments had no effect on regulating my cycle, but AC did.

I slip my youngest son fish oils. He thinks it is just funny milk shake. But his concentration seems to have improved. It could be I am expecting an improvement and thus do *something* different which has affected his behaviour.

I don't know. Most 'woo' I dismiss. But nutrition and supplements, I still believe in.