Christopher Hansard - Tibetan Bon Medicine

[bobdezon]

I asked you if you had any real world experience, not just cruising the internet and reading other peoples opinions.

You also stated that complimentary medicine is all imaginary. Do you have any real world experience with complimentary medicine, or not?

I shall refer you to my previous post. When you have read that and answered my questions, I shall endevour to supply you with answers. Until then I shall ignore the fact that you have just quoted my post in its entirety and commited a dreadful cognative faux pas.

[mahakala]

I shall refer you to my previous post. When you have read that and answered my questions, I shall endevour to supply you with answers. Until then I shall ignore the fact that you have just quoted my post in its entirety and commited a dreadful cognative faux pas.

Nice try. Obviously you have little or no experience, like I thought.

[seren]

Well alright then, I shall answer so we can put this aside and move on.

1. I have experience of using complimentary therapies and medicines, and various kinds of "healing" activities, including using homeopathic remedies (although I never actually believed in that, I was of the "well it's worth a try, isn't it?" school of idiot), Bach flower essences, aromatherapy and herbs.

2. I actually studied shamanism as part of my religious studies course at University, and subsequently out of my own interest- hence my undertaking a shamanic journey without hallucinogens once. I stress this "journey" was made under the guidance and leadership of believing shamans, not just in my living room on a bored Sunday. I have also attempted on several occasions to have mystical experiences using natural hallucinogens. So, although far from an expert, I am not a total novice.

3. I hereby state, unequivocally and with feeling, that all the therapies listed at 1, and shamanic journeying and mysticism at 2 are complete and utter nonsense.

Alright? You now have someone with experience of complimentary therapies who agrees with and supports bobdezon's position. Does that make his (her? its?) position any stronger? Are you more prepared to believe it?

PS Why personal experience of complimentary therapies does not prove they are effective

[Julia]

What I discovered was a set of sacred technologies that transform the body, heal the soul, and can change the way we live and the way we die. They explain that we are surrounded by a Luminous Energy Field (LEF) whose source is located in infinity. The LEF was a matrix that maintains the health and vibrancy of the physical body.

Isn't it odd that the very same people who peddle anti-scientific crap dress it up in scientific terminology? "Technologies...energy field...matrix..." I'm surprised they left out the ever-popular "quantum". What a steaming pile of poo!

And thanks for those words of wisdom, seren!

[vbloke]

They explain that we are surrounded by a Luminous Energy Field (LEF) whose source is located in infinity. The LEF was a matrix that maintains the health and vibrancy of the physical body.

If it located in infinity, then it is utterly beyond reach, for infinity is further away than anything you could possibly imagine.

Think of a number - any number; as big as you possibly can. Whatever you think of, I can still multiply it by itself a billion times and it still won't be as big as infinity.

A good example is this: a hotel has infinitely many rooms, each one labelled by a number printed on the door: Room 1, Room 2, Room 3, etc..
One night, a traveller arrives at the front desk only to be told be the clerk that the hotel is full. "But don't worry, sir," says the clerk, "I know how to find you a room. Just give me a minute to make some phone calls."
A short while later, the traveller has his room for the night. What the clerk did was ask every guest to move to the room with the room number the next integer.
Thus, the occupant of Room 1 moved into Room 2, the occupant of Room 2 into Room 3, etc.
Everyone moved room, no one was ejected from the hotel, and Room 1 became vacant for the newly arrived guest.
What's more, you can do this an infinite number of times. That's how big infinity is.

So to say something is "located in infinity" and is reachable is like saying "oh, it's only a mile away" to an person who's nailed to the floor - each is equally as incapable of getting there.

[bobdezon]

You forget that buzz lightyear went to infinity...........and beyond

[mahakala]

You could say that electro-magnetism being one of the known forces in the universe is something that connects the individual to the cosmos because they share that.

[bobdezon]

That makes as much sense as this:

[vbloke]

You could say that electro-magnetism being one of the known forces in the universe is something that connects the individual to the cosmos because they share that.

You could say that, but it would still be wrong.

I'd like you to explain exactly how the electromagnetic field you produce connects you to the cosmos, considering that any field would propagate at the speed of light ,which, whilst fast, is still finite in speed, so would take over 13.7 billion years to reach the edges of the observable universe.

[mahakala]

You could say that, but it would still be wrong.

I'd like you to explain exactly how the electromagnetic field you produce connects you to the cosmos, considering that any field would propagate at the speed of light ,which, whilst fast, is still finite in speed, so would take over 13.7 billion years to reach the edges of the observable universe.

I don't feel the need to explain anything to anybody, especially since I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything. These folks have a particular world view. Maybe you could try to understand it before you debunk it.

But never mind.

The hatred for anyone that has a different world view than your own kind of oozes off many of the posts here.

Kind of schoolyardish, or perhaps Hooterish, if you know what I mean.

Which makes posting here kind of retrograde.

[vbloke]

I don't feel the need to explain anything to anybody, especially since I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything. These folks have a particular world view. Maybe you could try to understand it before you debunk it.

But never mind.

The hatred for anyone that has a different world view than your own kind of oozes off many of the posts here.

Kind of schoolyardish, or perhaps Hooterish, if you know what I mean.

Which makes posting here kind of retrograde.

Well, you are the one defending the claims made, so it is really your job to convince us that they have merit - all we are doing is enquiring as to how these things work and stating reasons why they can't according to their own levels of explanation.

[seren]

bobdezon I love that picture, what is it? It pretty much accurately portrays the depth of meaning in your average hallucinogenic experience ie virtually nil. In fact it's more interesting. I like the happy dinosaurs.

These folks have a particular world view. Maybe you could try to understand it before you debunk it.

Oh but I do. Did I mention I did religious studies at University? Not Theology, mind, but religious studies, covering the major monotheistic faiths, Hinduism, anthropology of religion including shamanism and possession, the "New Age", and sociology of religion, and my particular specialism, Buddhism.

It's fascinating, but that doesn't make it true. There's not a shred of evidence that any of it is "true". I do know, and I still debunk. I've said nothing hateful. In short I meet all your requirements; where does that leave us?

[Mongrel]

I'll just add a link to Doggerel

[mahakala]

Well, you are the one defending the claims made, so it is really your job to convince us that they have merit - all we are doing is enquiring as to how these things work and stating reasons why they can't according to their own levels of explanation.

Actually I tend to agree that they don't work according to their level of explanation, in most cases.

[mahakala]

Well alright then, I shall answer so we can put this aside and move on.

1. I have experience of using complimentary therapies and medicines, and various kinds of "healing" activities, including using homeopathic remedies (although I never actually believed in that, I was of the "well it's worth a try, isn't it?" school of idiot), Bach flower essences, aromatherapy and herbs.

2. I actually studied shamanism as part of my religious studies course at University, and subsequently out of my own interest- hence my undertaking a shamanic journey without hallucinogens once. I stress this "journey" was made under the guidance and leadership of believing shamans, not just in my living room on a bored Sunday. I have also attempted on several occasions to have mystical experiences using natural hallucinogens. So, although far from an expert, I am not a total novice.

3. I hereby state, unequivocally and with feeling, that all the therapies listed at 1, and shamanic journeying and mysticism at 2 are complete and utter nonsense.

Alright? You now have someone with experience of complimentary therapies who agrees with and supports bobdezon's position. Does that make his (her? its?) position any stronger? Are you more prepared to believe it?

PS Why personal experience of complimentary therapies does not prove they are effective

Anecdotal evidence is of course always suspect. However, at a certain point the quantity and quality of the evidence brings the cause of the outcomes into question.