Christopher Hansard - Tibetan Bon Medicine

[davron]

Hi,

Intersting view point.

All along Tibetan Way have said they are not contacted to Hansard, Bowe says yes, they say no. Bowe is then caught out telling lies about Tibetan Way, making false evidance and saying that he has asked the office of the Dalai Lama. He then says the herbs used are not used in Tibet, when other credible sources are and links are used to prove it.

Roderick Lane has an email address and telephone number, has anyone considered asking him about his association? If his answer is genuine would you still feel inclinded to follow Flying Saucer Mans line of lies? Given the way that anyone who does not fall into Bowes fantasy world is posted all over the net as a liar, do you expect him to contact the man? Has Bowe ever bothered to contact Lane, have you?

Chris Farmer has been very clear about his associations, I do not blame Tibetan Way for not getting involved, Bowe has no method of being contacted at all, thats called 'hiding away or being on the run' after comitting a crime.

Roderick Lane is contactable
Tibetan Way is contactable
Stephanie Wright is contactable
Chris Farmer is contactable

Jeff Bowe has no means of contact, he even changed his phone number.

NOW draw a conclusion!


Davron

[davron]

The fact is that anyone who has been questioned about Bowe and his associations has not replied.
Anyone who has been asked if they were part of the 'Hansard Cult' has not replied.
Everyone who has throw dirt at Tibetan Way has been given an answer, anyone who asks questions of Bowe, Apprentice, Dorje has not been answered.

It looks more like those who are asking the questions have been made a member of the 'Bowe Cult'. They may be troll, some of them are the same person. But ask this are you condeming Tibetan Way via Chris Farmer for answering your questions? it looks like it and thats just plain crazy. It is also a sign of indoctrination into a cult.

Davron

[KrisKrowe]

Hi vaidya

I copied Sarama and had a quck scan thru the RR CH stuff. I see youve been attacked there for not toeing the line. I loved some of your comebacks.

"what kind of comment is "you are clutching at straws" supposed to mean? you don't know anything about me or my life"

"i disclose all this, knowing that with each post it may become easier to identify me, but i only do it in the spirit of openess - i have no fear"

Good on ya. Its a pity you dropped out of there before Bowe appeared. After him that place needed people like you to stand up to his rubbish.

Don't know about Bowe and his motivations

Bowes motivations are pretty clear to me. Hes an evil frustrated wannabe.

Wannabe. He wants people to think hes oh so clever and expert but he cant back it up. He wants to be a big fish in a small pond like the RR forum. He was doing pretty well there till he picked on people with the cojones to fight back.

Frustrated. Hes frustrated cos no-one in the real world wants to listen to his crap. All the Tibetan orgs contacted by TW think hes a nutter.

Evil. He steals peoples identities and writes lies in their name. Just check out his blog http://tibetanbonmedicine.blogspot.com/ (big thanx to Dav for the alert on that one) Hes posted there using Chris's name. Yeah theres some weasel worded small print to try and get himself off the hook but who reads the small print?

If you want to know about Bowes motivations you should keep checking those links. TW have got the full SP on him and its all going to come out. They are all pretty peaceful people but theyve had enough and they want to make sure he doesnt do this to anyone else.

but his point that Tibetan Way is "using" the popularity of Tibet to market products that are in no way Tibetan is still valid.

Youd have a point if they hadnt made it clear that the products are not Tibetan. They wrote all the Tibetan stuff cos they were going to be selling a load of stuff from Tibet and Nepal. They would be now if Bowe hadn't been wasting their time. Ive got no problem with your comment but you havent seen the whole pic yet.

there is a question about Angelica sinensis (dang gui), which is certainly used in Tibetan medicine

I know b*gg*r all bout Tibetan Medicine but I can read. If the Dalai Lama says that herb is Tibetan and used in their medicine thats enuff for me. Youve agreed its used that way so the big question is why did Bowe say it wasnt and say that the Dalai Lama's people agreed with him?

This is what Bowe was referring to: marketing a non-Tibetan formula under the auspices of a Tibetan ideology, seemingly, as a cynical marketing ploy.

Ive spent years in the music biz so I know a bit about cynical marketing. Bottom line is TW are already giving money to charities that do work for Tibet. If you start giving money away to things like that I dont think thats a cynical marketing ploy. If you dig round on the TW site theres a lot more there than just selling and theyre paying for all that.

The claim that these formulas are comprised of non-Tibetan botanicals in order to preserve Tibetan plants as a sustainable choice is also questionable

I might give the impression of not caring too much about things like ecology but I do. Ive read some of the info out there about Tibet and its pretty obvious there are problems with what the Chinese are doing there. CF told me about some glossy Chinese site selling medical stuff from Tibet stuff and that will damage the ecology.

Hope that helps.

KK

[KrisKrowe]

are we supposed to take this post seriously? is Jeff/Jeffery Bowe such an uncommon name? if all these names above WERE the same person, well, we should at least accord this personal a profound degree of respect for their apparently amazing energy!! what a lot of silliness...

Vaidya

Dont worry about all that. Thats just one of Bowes badboys trying to spread Bowes name round the web. Pathetic but they seem to worship him.

KK

[KrisKrowe]

So having knowledge of these things, how is it the products are still being marketed as having Tibetan influences on a Tibetan website?

KK, do you know? vaidya do you?

Whomever is responsible evidently had or has an association with Hansard. I'm still very curious as to what Roderick Lane's involvement is and am having a little trouble believing the explanation that it is nothing more than a coincidence that he has personally linked himself to a site that was otherwise off the radar, or still in beta testing stages in fact.

I'm listening...

and KK, I've spoken with Chris on this forum, but I still have the niggling feeling that he is quite possibly being used by his own clients somehow and is defending them because he is a good person. I question why he has been put consistently on the front-lines in their stead?

Sarama

I think I answered some of that in my reply to Vaidya. Like I said I dont kno much about Tibetan medicine. My meds are booze and tobacco and no other drugs. I think they were talking about some sort of overall holistic approach to medicine. More philosophy of Tibetan Medicine rather than actual meds. Chris and TW tried to explain it all to me but most of it went over my head.

I dont kno Rod Lane but I see Davs online and what hes said seems pretty sensible. Just ask the guy. Maybe he just scours the web looking for meds. AFAIK the bit of the site that was in beta testing was the portal and user area. They still are cos everyone at TW has been tied up with dealing with Bowe.

Chris is a good person but stupid he aint. Hes been a good mate for 20 years + and thats why I got involved. Mates watch each others backs and attacking our mates is a big big no no. Theres a long list of people queing up for a pop at Bowe for what hes done to Chris.

Hes in the front line cos he discovered Bowes crap over a weekend when he couldnt contact the guys at TW. Back then they were just working together but now theyre friends united by a common enemy. Right now Chris has taken a back seat so he can do his charity work. Hes still got to oversee the TW site but theyve brought in someone else just to deal with Bowe on the web.

Theres been a few questions today that I will ask Chris about but not today. I wouldnt dare interrupt him now. After Dav let us know about the other Bowe blog using Chris's name Chris went apeshit. If you go and look at it you'll see its the only blog Bowe has where you can leave comments so Chris did. If you read that youll see he was losing it big time. Last time I saw him get angry was back in the days when he was managing Virus and had to deal with promoters who thought they could rip off the bands. Even then he wasn't that angry. It took me a couple of days to calm him down and I told him he needed a break. So I pulled a few strings and on Thursday he took off for Silverstone and wont be back till tonight. I suspect right now hes having a few beers and getting ready to watch the race so not a good time to call him.

Anyway Im sure he'll come back and answer for himself.

KK

[KrisKrowe]

Dav

Welcome back.

Nice postings if a bit harsh. The questions aint that bad.

Thing is Bowes been planting ideas in peoples heads for a long time and its only now that TW are fighting back. They did the good thing and tried to get hold of Bowe (not physically!!!) to discuss all this in private. But hes done a runner on the phone front and ignored their emails but at least they tried. Now theyve run out of patience esp after the other blog turned up so theyre going public.

So now people will see the true story and theyll see that Bowe has been conning them along. If they still stick up for him after that then they must be outta their heads. Ive seen a lot of whats gonna come out and it aint pretty. Bowes attacked everyone in the Tibetan scene from the Dalai Lama downwards but hes hidden a lot of it. Thats why he keeps using different names. Hes got at least 8 or 9 blogs and websites running and all of them use dodgy names and other info. Some of them even quote Jeff Bowe as being an expert. Its just pathetic. If you want to say something at least put your name to it.

Some of what hes written makes it pretty clear that he appears to support and wants violent protest in Tibet. He may have played with toy soldiers when he was a kid but I guess thats the closest he ever came to armed conflict. Now he sits at home in the UK and expects Tibetans to fight the Chinese army. Id give him a gun and drop him in the middle of Tibet and let him fight the Chinese. See how fast he runs then.

What would happen if they did start an armed revolution. A load of Tibetans running round with antique weapons against the Chinese army. The Chinese would love it. First theyd start shooting vids to prove the Tibetans were armed and then theyd start shooting bullets and ask questions later. End result would be a lot of dead Tibetans while Bowes sitting in his armchair and sprouting crap over the web about his solidarity for the cause. Big deal. Once all the Tibetans were dead what would Bowe be supporting then.

Someones posted a reply on the TW Bowe blogs and hes mentioned something that TW already told me about. Bowe was supposed to be an expert witness (what a joke) at some immigration hearing about Tibetans. When it came to the hearing he bottled it and didnt show up. Hes telling them to risk their lives in Tibet and he cant even be bothered to show up to defend the ones in England. That guys got a yellow streak a mile wide down his back.

Anyway I guess Im preaching to the converted. You live with that sort of 'patriot' every day. They let others do the dirty work and die while they sit around in comfort. Evil muthas.

Ah well Its a mad world. No Moto GP today so I guess Ill crack a few cans and watch the 4 wheel one instead. Might even spot Chris on the TV but I got him into a nice little hospitality gig so he can watch the race and party at the same time.

Have a good one

KK

[Sarama]

Dav,

No one is questioning the lack of credibility of Bowes, I don't trust him as far as I can toss him after what you told me, and what KK has shared. Bowes is a mute point as far as I'm concerned.
I'm genuinely worried that CF is being wined and dined and possibly stuck full of cigars.

KK,

You're a good friend and CF is lucky to have you.
Just follow me for a moment though, bear with me.

Let's just assume that whomever is selling the products on TW somehow purchased them from a liquidators when CH's businesses went under and let's just say that Roderick Lane being a former close colleague of CH's is now directly involved with his former colleagues products either in the way of a) sales or b) just an 'innocent' endorsement.
We can not prove sales, but he IS however linked to and is endorsing those products on a site that is still in beta testing stages. Meaning without Bowes pointing us all in that direction, no one would have even known about it, until they officially launched the site.

Are you still certain that is just a wild and crazy coincidence, because I am not.

CF has no need to defend anything to me, so let's be clear on that, but it's no coincidence that Roderick Lane-former colleague, and Stephanie Wright-former mistress/apprentice are involved somehow.

Is it against the law that they should somehow be involved in the selling of the products that they or somehow they know purchased from a liquidators? NO. CH's loss, their gain.

Do I suspect I will get a genuine answer if I contact these people directly? No, to be honest, I suspect not as they were former colleagues of CH's and I strongly suspect Mrs. Wright is more than a little distraught at having her affair exposed all over the internet, and we have yet to establish her involvement in any abuse that appears to have taken place over CH's seemingly many years of practice.

Now while I am aware there are more than a few lies thrown into the mix here, I suspect there are some truths as well, many of which can not be "proven" in an online forum, and that is why I have consistently directed posters in this thread to go directly to the police. They can not even begin an investigation if there is not a complaint.

Back to CF, I am curious as to why his clients put him in this position of having to defend himself in the first place quite frankly.
KK, listen, this all could have been avoided if his clients either a) informed him from the beginning about what they were going to be selling on his site and the controversy surrounding b) attempted to sell them under different names.

These are herbals remember and both the UK and Europe have some rather 'strict' codes and laws to follow involving their distribution and sales. Though not nearly strict enough if you ask me, my point is that not just anyone could have purchased them intending to sell them in the UK. In fact only someone bearing some form of liability insurance would be licensed to sell them, or advise the public on how to take them for that matter because they are considered internal 'medicines'. Therefore it would have to be someone who has some semblance of herbal knowledge or had direct contact with what they were going to be selling. If anything should go "wrong", in the "unlikely event" and so forth, someone has to be in the position of accountability if the herbs somehow mix with the customers normal meds. So, my question is, WHO is that?

vaidya is right KK and Dav, they are not Tibetan Herbal formulas. mahakala directed us to some herbal formulas being sold stateside. The packages that TW is selling and the ones being sold by WR are the same, different wrapping. They were formulated stateside using mainly North American sourced herbs.

CF is being put through an awful lot of unnecessary grief in my opinion. His clients know what they are selling, they are obliged by law to know. CF does not, and how could he have known?

Bowes sounds completely unreasonable and is taking out everyone within his line of fire but I do not suspect that CF is the only one who has been wrongfully targeted during Bowes reign of terror on Hansard, and that is just another reason why I would not want to approach some of those who can be contacted. If they wanted contact they would do as CF has chosen and put themselves out there (or here rather). I am sure they too have been harassed for just as long if not longer.

We also do not know what we are playing with here. As you offered KK, we do not have a full picture and any of those we contact may or may not have taken part in the original context of all of these threads... the alleged continuing abuses.

[Sarama]

KK, I just followed your link to Bowes latest, I am so sorry, please let CF know.

S

[Sarama]

I dont kno Rod Lane but I see Davs online and what hes said seems pretty sensible. Just ask the guy. Maybe he just scours the web looking for meds. AFAIK the bit of the site that was in beta testing was the portal and user area. They still are cos everyone at TW has been tied up with dealing with Bowe.

Just wanted to say that it's highly unlikely Rod just scoured the net for this one, and again how coincidental that would be.

All of our products have been created with care and detailed attention based upon a blend of Western science and Tibetan medical knowledge and lifestyle wisdom which has been successfully used for thousands of years. We have searched the world over for the best quality and safest ingredients, to create the most inspired products that are not only functional and do what they say but also bring you to relaxation, rest, well-being and happiness, bringing you to your ‘life’.

Beauty is health, health is beauty

Our health products have been developed to help everyone achieve their natural beauty through enhancing their health. By supporting the body's natural processes they allow the body glow of its own healthy beauty.

However, even these products, made with only the purest and highest quality plant and natural mineral extracts for maximum efficacy, can only do so much. We believe the essence of long-term health and effervescent beauty is to discover who you are and match every aspect of your lifestyle to the essential you.

Too often we allow the rapid pace of life to separate us from our own inner core of what is right for us. By taking just a few minutes every day to reconnect without a essential self we can rediscover the patterns and rhythms that can guide us to a healthier way of life. From this reason each kit comes with a set of simple relaxation exercises, meditations and suggestions for physical exercise that take only minutes to perform along with dietary recommendations designed to enhance the effects of the products.

The above also just happens to be the EXACT text verbatim that was on Hansard's site, so whomever is selling the products also took Hansard and his marketing teams words down to the letter as well as the concept for an entire line of products such as candles, roomsprays, and even meditations accompanying all these.

I am not speaking on behalf of Bowe, even with Bowe out of the way, the question remains. Who has so obviously and blatantly taken over the sales of Hansard's products, and words, not to mention the entire concept and basis behind them? If the allegations turn out at any point in time to be true, and the man has no credentials, then what is that going to do that possibly has not already been done to the reputation of the products?

CF needs to be asking the same questions because he's taking the fall for it.

[mahakala]

Interesting idea that the sellers of the herbal products simply bought a big stash from the liquidators. In, fact, that probably explains it, since to produce a herbal line like that would require they are either buying it from someone else who is already into manufacturing (trophic/wildrose for instance) or start up their own manufacturing. And the fact is, the manufacturing and packaging of such products is not a simple matter.

So indeed, Chris Farmer might be getting the flack for someone else's smudge and blur.

[davron]

Something went bang in the night, it is a disgusting time in the morning and I cannot sleep.

Sarama I understand what you say but a few things come to mind
1 by introducing Tibetanway Bowe subverted this thread. People are no longer interested in the truth of Hansard, it gets Hansard off the knife.

2 you make an assumption that proximity to Hansard means people were involved with him, very Bowe like.

3 this statment Do I suspect I will get a genuine answer if I contact these people directly? No, to be honest, I suspect not as they were former colleagues of CH's and I strongly suspect Mrs. Wright is more than a little distraught at having her affair exposed all over the internet, and we have yet to establish her involvement in any abuse that appears to have taken place over CH's seemingly many years of practice.

4 so when you do contact them you wont belive them anyway? Will you resort to the Bowe method of 'demanding they issue statments endorsed by lawyers and will you respect that statment? Do I suspect I will get a genuine answer if I contact these people directly? No,

5 Given that you have pushed them and Tibetan Way in a corner by say you will not belive them, branded Lane as possiblly involved in Hansards abuse. What do you expect them to say, If they say anything will you listen?

Tibetan Way stated early on NO ONE contacted them, they were faced with an assult on 4 sides from Bowes blogs and Rick Ross postings. This thread is in danger of doing the same thing. Kris Krowe has been around the world and knows things, Chris Farmer sounds like a good man. They vouch for Tibetan Way.

Has anyone here contacted Lane? I could but I am in the stick end of nowhere listening to things go bang. If I do contact him would you belive what I post?

So Hansard escaps by Bowes efforts and the Pizza Guru sildes from the stage very cleverly pushed by Flying Saucer Man. Enter one company doing charity work and two bit palyers, they take the fall.

Davron

[Sarama]

3 this statment Do I suspect I will get a genuine answer if I contact these people directly? No, to be honest, I suspect not as they were former colleagues of CH's and I strongly suspect Mrs. Wright is more than a little distraught at having her affair exposed all over the internet, and we have yet to establish her involvement in any abuse that appears to have taken place over CH's seemingly many years of practice.

3. apprentice was an associate of Hansard's just to give you a clue of the company he kept and who kept him in practice apparently with the knowledge that he was sleeping with patients (?)

4 so when you do contact them you wont belive them anyway? Will you resort to the Bowe method of 'demanding they issue statments endorsed by lawyers and will you respect that statment? Do I suspect I will get a genuine answer if I contact these people directly? No,

4. refer to #3 above. I am also saying that CF is not alone in having faced such harassment. Do we really want to harass anyone and everyone that Bowes directs us to? I am saying if they want or feel the need to defend themselves then I am sure they will do so just as CF has done.

5 Given that you have pushed them and Tibetan Way in a corner by say you will not belive them, branded Lane as possiblly involved in Hansards abuse. What do you expect them to say, If they say anything will you listen?

5. Slow down Davron, I have not pushed TW in the corner, and certainly not CF. I have an absolute profound sympathy for CF and sincerely feel that he was perhaps not given the full or truthful story of what he was getting himself into when he apparently consented to sell his clients products on an otherwise great site.

Tibetan Way stated early on NO ONE contacted them, they were faced with an assult on 4 sides from Bowes blogs and Rick Ross postings. This thread is in danger of doing the same thing. Kris Krowe has been around the world and knows things, Chris Farmer sounds like a good man. They vouch for Tibetan Way.

Please refer to #5. Please be clear that cornering CF is not my intention, on the contrary. CF has been put in a position of defending his own reputation by his own clients who could have saved him an awful lot of grief by telling him the truth, or at the very least not using all the same text, tags, labels, and concepts as Christopher Hansard.

So Hansard escaps by Bowes efforts and the Pizza Guru sildes from the stage very cleverly pushed by Flying Saucer Man. Enter one company doing charity work and two bit palyers, they take the fall.
Davron

You're right, Bowes has gone off topic to say the least, but he never seemed the least bit concerned about the more serious allegations of abuse in the first place. His intentions were always made clear. He wanted nothing more then to promote peoples own skepticism, to have them at the very least question Hansard's authority and to prove that CH did not have any such credentials as those being advertised in not only various websites, news columns and magazines, but in 2 books as well. If Bowes is correct, that makes the alleged abuses far worse, as CH's clients and even apprentices were reeled in to him under false pretenses. I believe that makes another case for fraud.

So in short, I am not defending Bowes, nor is it my intention to offend Chris Farmer, but I am questioning who is behind the sales of the products that CF is taking the "flack" for as mahakala offered. Why would they involve their website host and have him defend them and their products? Why, knowing that there is even the slightest controversy surrounding CH's credentials would they even attempt to pass off his products or those of an American's in a Tibetan website? Why would they not at the very least have the decency to write their own words and give credit where credit is due, which is to a formulator in the states who actually holds real credentials?

[Sarama]

Furthermore Davron,

I strongly feel this needs to be settled in court. Please correct me if I am wrong but is it not the responsibility of the police to protect the public? How can they do that if no one is submitting their complaints? Hansard has all but abandoned his original websites and claims, and is no longer associating himself with Tibet or Bon, or any other credentials besides those of "healer" and author. Therefore all those patients who invested in what they were sold as a Physician of Tibetan Medicine could be entitled to some form of remuneration.

[mahakala]

Furthermore Davron,

I strongly feel this needs to be settled in court. Please correct me if I am wrong but is it not the responsibility of the police to protect the public? How can they do that if no one is submitting their complaints? Hansard has all but abandoned his original websites and claims, and is no longer associating himself with Tibet or Bon, or any other credentials besides those of "healer" and author. Therefore all those patients who invested in what they were sold as a Physician of Tibetan Medicine could be entitled to some form of remuneration.

My understanding is that if anyone invested significant time or money, or made major life decisions because of Hansard's fraud, it is called 'false pretense' and he is liable. Those people who were with him for ten years or more have a major case against him. He deserves to answer for it.

[KrisKrowe]

Sarama

"Allo allo allo allo"

Ian Hunter Once Bitten Twice Shy

Bloody hell I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition

People have always said I have a pretty warped imagination but you guys are getting me well confused.

Conspiracy on top of conspiracy on top of conspiracy.

I'm genuinely worried that CF is being wined and dined and possibly stuck full of cigars.

Love it So would he so long as theyre Monte Cristo. Actually hes gone a bit weird on that front. Seems hes been getting back into pipes (real pipes and normal tobacco not the dodgy blends). Something to do with living in Denmark years ago.

You're a good friend and CF is lucky to have you.

I think its the other way round. Im lucky to have met CF when I was just getting started in the music biz.

vaidya is right KK and Dav, they are not Tibetan Herbal formulas. mahakala directed us to some herbal formulas being sold stateside. The packages that TW is selling and the ones being sold by WR are the same, different wrapping.

Theres too much here to deal with after only 2 mugs of coffee. Im gonna have to do my own digging round today and check out some of this.

1 question. How long have people known that these meds were being made or sold Stateside?

KK