Lightning Process??!!!

[lazerustheduck]

First time I've noticed this thread, didn't realise I was a purveyor of Woo just by being ill.
From my experience of people I know that have been on the Lightning Process, it works on the principal of making people feel good for about a week and taking their success rate from that week. A week or two after that most sufferers I know suffer a crash which they blame on themselves. It is obvious that the Lightning Process can't be to blame because so many people have been 'cured'. I've not met anyone that can show any permanent improvement that can be attributed to the Process and lots of people that are worse off.

[Mongrel]

Mind if I ask if youve heard of another therapy called Buteyko. I happen to have been affected by adult chickenpox which attacked my lungs which subsequently led to ME. My homeopath another ME sufferer herself substained a viral attack on her body which damaged her heart and led to ME. She has suggested that buteyoko though usually used for those with chronic breathing illnesses can improve energy levels.

I had a quick read of this site so if you're information is different links would be nice
1) Ask "Which energy levels and how are they measured?". Whilst it could be metaphorical normally it's vitalism and is at best useless.

2) Breathing exercises for an asthmatic can be useful a small amount of the time (my Mother tended towards wheezy then getting into a panic attack and spiralling to ambulance time - proper breathing and relaxation techniques could have reduced the severity of the attack). Asthma is a very serious illness however that is very well understood, the treatment is simple and effective.

3) The trials (no links to actual papers and I'm not scrubbing around Pubmed this time of night) are old, no follow ups since 1995, and only show a fraction of the data; so either they cherry picked a few results, had poor procedure or did do follow ups and buried them due to poor results.

4) Without knowing how your lung problems present it's hard to say whether what could be useful. General breathing\relaxation techniques may be of assistance or they may not, given that you'd almost certainly be paying for these yourself I'd probably be edging towards not. Have a chat with your GP or specialist (not homeopath, unless they've got an MD certificate on the wall) and see what they say.

[skbuncks]

There are several clinical studies listed in wiki.
The conclusions seem to indicate that the Buteyko breathing techniques may be useful in the management of mild ashthma. patients who have used the techniques have shown a reduction in the amount of medication used in control of their condition with no decrease in lung function.
Interestingly in studies comparing Buteyko with other similar breathing exercises both groups exhibited a reduction in ashthma symptoms.

Breathing techniques may be useful in the management of patients with mild asthma symptoms who use a reliever frequently, but there is no evidence to favour shallow breathing over non-specific upper body exercises

A 2000 New Zealand study concludes that

Even though no study has indicated exactly why Buteyko is so effective at controlling asthma, if a drug could show these results, then it is likely that it would be used widely in asthma control

Whilst I can see a possible connection for the use of Buteyko for the alleviation of breathing difficulties arising from conditions other than ashthma, like those exhibited by Kate at post #30, I see no connection for the treatment of ME in general.

skb

[Eirran]

I have not been aware of this thread before now.

1. ME is a real disease.
It has been recognized as a neurological disease by WHO since 1969.

CFS was introduces as a name for this disease in 1988 in USA.
Much of the confusion about ME or CFS is due to the fact that there are several diagnostic and/or research criterias out there.
Some of these criterias are broader than others.
In my mind some of these (as the infamous English Oxford-criterias) do not speak of ME, but of chronic fatigue in a broader sense, which also includes chronic fatigue of psychosomatic or psychiatric reasons.

Incidentally one of the members of the conference that settled the name CFS, Anthony Komaroff, now states that they at that time were not concerned that the name would trivialize the disease, but they were wrong. He is now a member of a committee to change the name and clearly believes that there is enough scientific proof to call the disease ME Myalgic Encephalopathy.

There is at the present more than 4000 research papers that show biomedical signs in ME.

Unfortunately in the UK, most research is on the "psychic nature" of CFS.
One of the reasons for this is called: "Simon Wessely".

His position has made the MRC consistently funding research on the basis the ME is psychosomatic.
A very good documentation of this is given in Martin Walkers book: Skewed

Someone asked the question: Why can then a process like the Lightning Process (LP) cure a neurological disease?

My answer is that it cannot.
Let’s see how Parker himself describes LP:

"THE PHYSIOLOGICAL CATCH 22
Many sufferers they find themselves stuck in the following downward spiral

1. You fall ill due to an initial 'bug', chemical or in some cases stress, or other external factor that started your M.E. This event causes extreme demands on your immune and neurological system.

2. You feel very unwell. The symptoms were either very strong or lasted so long that you begin to wonder if you'd ever get better. You consult your doctor and specialists in a number of fields, but nobody seems to have any answers, or provide much useful help, and the illness continues.

3. Your physical response to the illness now combined, understandably, with these concerns for your future, creates even more for your body to deal with. This in turn makes your body produce the hormones adrenaline (also known as epinephrine), nor-adrenaline and cortical. The powerful hormones are a good and normal response to short term stress, but long term production of them exhausts us, it affects our blood sugar and thyroid levels, it suppresses (and messes up the proper regulation of) our immune system and makes us prone to illness and tiredness…..this unfortunately makes you loop back to step 2."

In an interview, Parker also says that this adrenaline loop is not present in everyone with ME, but he has found that it is present in many ME-sufferes.
He also believes that ME and Fibromaylgia are one and the same condition, something that has been proven scientifically time and time again not to be true.

This is a very natural process when you get sick, especially with a disease where there, at present, is no cure.
But all of this is a description of "being ill" not "getting ill".

So if a process like LP can make you better at "being ill", maybe be able to do a lot of things that you could not do for a very long time, it is clear to me that you "feel well" maybe up to the point that you feel cured.

But it's all about managing a disease, not curing it.

[thelightningprocess]

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[NorthernSoul]

A truly great process - using your mind to change your body to overcome a truly physical disease.

Are you familiar with the placebo effect?

[johnny74]

I've had "M.E." since 2005 and I am a little surprised to find so many members of this forum who think it's a made up disease. Believe me, if I could shake it off I would have. It has no benefits and has nearly led to me losing my job. Doctors will not diagnose it.

I haven't tried the Lightning Process but what I would say is that just because someone is charging money for something doesn't mean that it doesn't work. However, the fact that the guy behind it is principally an osteopath worries me a little.

As far as the placebo effect goes, don't forget that the placebo effect is an integral part of any treatment, and especially so with anything that works via NLP, or other psychological manipulations. A cure is a cure regardless of how it works.

[Swiftlady]

Thank you for the very helpful info on the Lightning Process.

It reminded me of some meditation work we did with a friend who has the pain variant of ME - mine is painless thank heavens.
We were doing simple confidence building and healing work. Each of us in turn took centre position while the others stroked their arms and legs, and we all sang their name repeatedly plus encouraging phrases about being strong and well and successful in whatever way that person needed it.
You can see the suggestion effect is simple but powerful due to its flooding technique and done on a basis of trust with people we know.

Well this one time the effects were startling. My friend, who lives half in a wheelchair and hasn't walked without a stick in 10 years, the next morning got out of bed and walked without her stick.
We were all happy for her. But the effect wore off by the evening and we concluded it was just a nice encouraging sign of how well she wsa doing with diet exercise herbs etc.

Now it sounds like this Lightning Process is a slightly less pleasant version of what we did. Interestingly my friend said she found it very scary to go so suddenly into active walking. She was honest enough to say she didn't feel she could cope with the sudden transition. I should think her weakened muscles would have found it tough too!

It is possible to use mind over matter to do extraordinary things. But it isn't a good idea except in emergency to use it to do sudden huge things. I have no doubt that even when I was very weak, so unable to pick my baby up and carry him, I could have lifted a car off him if his life was in danger. That kind of hormone drenched 'miracle' is commonplace.
But afterwards my own body would have suffered horrendous after effects. Just as yours would if you climbed a mountain at top speed without stopping!

So I think "instant" remedies are not recommended. The system needs time to go through stages of healing and acclimatisation. Not walking/ walking. Carrying bags of shopping/ relying on helpers. These things change your life enormously.

-----------------------------------------
I have had ME for 48 years since 13yrs old.
Frequent episodes of collapse but just accepted I had this fiercely feverish illness at times.
During a long recovery from having my child when still weak I got PID. I think the high antibiotic dose finished me off. I was then bedridden for years.
18 years later I'm still fighting.

STRICT DIET is essential. NO alcohol, NO sugar, NO tea no coffee, and NO bread or wheat as routine. Nowadays I can have any of these as as occasional treats.
Probiotics are important to balance the gut flora.

EXERCISE I discovered 'graduated exercise' before researchers did.
My version is just to keep bits of my body moving as much as is possible in the current condition that day. So I stretch feet and legs as I lie in bed for example. Whatever my ability, lying down stretches, walking to another room, modest walks outside, swimming ... The trick is not to overdo it but to move as much as I can - not easy as all ME people know.

ECHINACEA is my lifesaver. Very very safe herb.
1000mg a day, 3000-6000 if weak up to 2000mg every 4 hours if bad.
It simply boosts the immune system.
Can be taken with antibiotics and should be to help balance the damage they do. I have managed not to have any not even for abscesses for 15 years and counting.

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I was hurt and angered by the first post on this thread and I am not flannelled by protests later that all it's saying is the nature of ME makes it vulnerable to faking.
Post 1: A none-existant disease (Sgt Badass)
However I love intelligent analysis so I shall enjoy exploring this forum.

Like most other ME sufferers I would do anything that didn't harm my loved ones to live OK. One of the most appalling aspects is to be struggling to do ordinary things, huge efforts, and so much collapse + try again, only to have someone sneer at you as a fake.

Any chronic condition that goes on and on endlessly DOES have a psychosomatic component. But that's easy to explain. It's simply depressing living such a ghastly limited life.
I've seen the waves of depression that go with diabetes, or long term cancer - no different.
Unable to play with my child on the floor having to watch others do it, unable to pick him up. The excruciating efforts to make sure he was clean and fed leaving me shaking with exhaustion.
Try doing one small bowl of washing up and it takes over an hour - a normal person would do it in 10 mins. You do a few mins, sit for 15, then try again. You're ridiculously proud you did it - then you see or hear a comment that you're a fake or it's "in your mind."
Then add in this goes on for years - 2 years - 5 years - 10 years - 15 years - a lifetime.
YOU'D get depressed at times too!

I think my worst point was when my own mother burst out accusing me of being a fake. All in my mind. As a practising psychotherapist and a damn good one I'd checked this and I knew it for the rubbish it is.
What she was accusing me of was tyrannising my husband and child, limiting their lives, because I was too neurotic to get my act together.
No further comment on THAT.

My heartfelt thanks to my strong loving husband who has never doubted me, constantly encouraged me and shared my triumphs.
To my now grown up son too who learned as he grew up to be strong and kind and caring to those more limited than he is. Who uncomplainingly does horrible jobs like clearing up catshit! because I cannot.
I am deeply lucky to be so loved and supported.

[NorthernSoul]

So, ME is a neurological disorder that manifests it self as physical pain or fatigue even when there is no reason for that pain or fatigue. Can a doctor not therefore, and I suspect I'm looking at this in a very 2D fashion, just throw the patient some placebos, tell them it's a cure and send them on their way? Could patients be treated by therapy? And what is the connection, seemingly, between ME and woo woo?

[Trinoc]

So, ME is a neurological disorder that manifests it self as physical pain or fatigue even when there is no reason for that pain or fatigue. Can a doctor not therefore, and I suspect I'm looking at this in a very 2D fashion, just throw the patient some placebos, tell them it's a cure and send them on their way? Could patients be treated by therapy?

If ME is a neurological disorder that manifests it self as physical pain or fatigue, then surely the cause of the pain or fatigue is the neurological disorder. Just as a cold is a disease that manifests itself as sneezing, so the cause of the sneezing is the cold infection.

[NorthernSoul]

If ME is a neurological disorder that manifests it self as physical pain or fatigue, then surely the cause of the pain or fatigue is the neurological disorder. Just as a cold is a disease that manifests itself as sneezing, so the cause of the sneezing is the cold infection.

Yes I believe that's what I was getting at...

[Trinoc]

Yes I believe that's what I was getting at...

OK, my mistake. It appeared to me that you were saying that as the symptoms had no cause, then they could be treated with something with no effect, i.e. a placebo.

The placebo effect might be a valid treatment - it has worked on much more positively identifiable symptoms than these - but that doesn't make it something with no effect. Nor is the placebo effect something that can only be effective in cases where symptoms have no cause.

What do you mean by "treated by therapy"? Surely "therapy" is a synonym for "treatment" ... of do you mean psychotherapy? As far as I know, psychotherapy is only applicable to psychological problems, not neurological ones (those which have a physical cause in the brain or nervous system). I suppose it's possible though that psychotherapy could act as a sort of placebo even in problems which do have a physical cause.

[NorthernSoul]

I think I'm probably unclear on what the difference is between psychological and neurological illnesses...

[Matt]

I think I'm probably unclear on what the difference is between psychological and neurological illnesses...

Psychological ~= software
Neurological ~= hardware

[NorthernSoul]

Sure, I get that much, but what is the software? Chemicals? Memories etched on the brain?