Lightning Process??!!!

[Sgt Badass]

Holy crap batman! Just listening to Jeremy Vine about some woman with ME being cured by http://www.lightningprocess.com/

:o

What wizardry is this? A none-existant disease being cured by a none-existant therapy?

[tkingdoll]

I'm totally ignorant about ME, I've heard the name but didn't realise it wasn't real - is it one of those things invented for people who insist there's something wrong but there isn't anything diagnosable? (I believe IBS falls into that category).

[Hazen]

Myalgic Encephalomyelitis, I think I've heard it called 'yuppie flu' -
that's the extent of my knowledge on the subject.

[John Jackson]

I heard this as I was driving and couldn't believe what they were coming out with. :o

Fortunately there was a doctor interviewed who put a rational case across.

ME or Chronic Fatigue Syndrome often occurs after a viral infection and has been known to occur for many years. It normally just clears up though.

I think that ME that lasts for years on end, this woman had had ME for 4 years, is basically psychosomatic.

She went for this lightning therapy (supposedly based on NLP) and after one session had been cured. As soon as I heard that I thought it was obviously a psychosomatic case.

[Sgt Badass]

I heard the doctor - thank chuff they're now starting to be a bit more rational on Radio2 these days and whoever the doc was, he was very level headed.

The worst thing you can do to someone who has just been 'cured' is tell them "It was in the mind, ahh diddums" but he got across the basics of evidence based testing fairly well.

[Zendal Darkman]

When I used to work for the Benefits Agency, M.E. was very much a controversial topic, with some Adjudicating Officers refusing point blank to regard it as physical disability.

I would like to make one observation. Although people with ME claim to be very weak, they mostly shared a strange characteristic of writing page after page of irrelevant information telling us about every aspect of their life and of the "latest" research into their condition. Whenever we saw a review "letter" that approached the size of a small library, we would call out "M.E." before reading it, and most of he time we were right. No other disability had such an effect on the people who had it.

Years later i read this by Victor Lewis Smith (evening Standard)

"Most curious of all is surely ME, because whenever I write sceptically
about the much-hyped disease (which supposedly robs victims of the ability to walk, speak, or write), I invariably receive scores of lengthy protest letters from sufferers, usually enclosing bulky research documents that they've photocopied down at their local library, en route to the post office. Clearly, I must possess the healing touch, because all that's needed are a few firm words from me and the sick not only take up their beds and walk - they positively jump to their word processors before sprinting to the postbox.

I think M.E. is a crippling condition (I use to award)

[John Jackson]

You're right Zendal. People who suffer psychosomatic illness really do suffer the symptoms.

I think it's easy to dismiss such people who have conditions that have a high, if not total, psychological component to them but their condition is as real to them as any organic illness.

I came across this when I was looking into the scaremongering claims (aspartame, fluoride etc.) and how they work on people. One of the main reasons that they get really powerful anecdotes is when a somatizer uses one of their 'cures' (an aspartame detox plan for example) and they get instantly cured.

It may seem pointless or unnecessary to speak against treatments like the lightening process, but just because it has helped one person free themself from a psychosomatic condition, it doesn't mean that it going to do that for everyone. It's still selling, rather expensively, false hope to most people.

[Lord Muck oGentry]

ME/CFS is a pretty hot topic just now because of the Gibson Inquiry. Here is a link to some of the stuff that will be put to the inquiry:

http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/The_Gibson_Enquiry.html

The stuff by Williams and by Hooper is quite well known among campaigning groups. I don't pretend to be able to judge this as evidence, and will cheerfully defer to any experts. However, I think it's interesting ( if true) that psychiatric explanations are on the way out.

[tkingdoll]

Since my opening ignorance of this topic I've done a bit of reading, thanks for the links and stuff folks.

It seems to me that it's a difficult condition to make a call on regarding disability benefits etc, because it could easily be faked by people who are just lazy.

And lets be honest, there are very lazy people out there who would jump at the chance to not have to work. Well, not jump. Grunt, maybe.

This reminds me of some research I did a while ago into the huge upsurge in people being signed off from work long-term because of "stress" (I once had a sick note for two months that said "stress" on it, nothing more). Is it because people are leading increasingly stressful lives and cannot cope, or is it that many people see it as a foolproof and unprovable way to get a couple of months paid leave?

I hate to be cynical, but I suspect a lot of the latter. ME figures may be exaggerated for the same reason.

[John Jackson]

I think it's important to recognise that somatizers are genuine; when they have symptoms - they really do suffer (they are not the malingerers they are often made out to be). The fact that they are prone to undergo 'miracle cures' can add a lot of weight to the claims of alt. meddlers who 'cure' them however, so we need to be aware of their existence but understand them too.

You're right though teek, where there's any ambiguity it can encourage malingerers to take advantage - think of those who 'suffer' back pain and claim benefit.

Btw, I don't claim to be an expert in these matters so if I come out with anything that's obviously wrong - let me know.

[Lord Muck oGentry]

John,

You may be interested in the huge literature on Waddell Signs for nonorganic back pain:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waddell's_signs

[John Jackson]

I've just had a quick skim without following the links, but yes, that is very interesting. A way of checking real from imaginary back pain.

I'll read up on this as it's an area that I am particularly interested in (the difference between real and psychosomatic illness not back pain per se).

Thanks for that

[brodski]

I can assure you people here that ME (or Chronic fatigue Syndrome, which is becoming the preferred term) is a very real disease, as my partner has suffered from it for years and now has had to give up work due to it's debilitating effects. Just because it is a real disease, does not mean that it is necessarily a physical rather than mental illness, although I know that I would get lynched in the CFS "community" if I where to voice that opinion too loudly. Because of the stigma which is attached to CFS due to it being seen as an "imaginary" illness most suffers desperately want an organic cause to be found, personally I don't see why mental illness should be seen as any less real than physical illnesses. Can CFS is a debilitating disease, which put many suffers in wheelchairs and makes them unable to take care of themselves, its not just feeling a little tired, its often being unable to move out of bed for days at a time, chronic joint and muscle pain, nausea, memory loss and often confusion.
Incidentally, a diagnosis of CFS is not an easy one to get, first the condition needs to have lasted for at least 6 months, and secondly you have to wait for the doctors to test fro, and exclude, practically every other condition which can cause fatigue. If you want to go on the sick for a bit, it's much easier to get signed off for depression, and you'll suffer much less social stigma.
The way that the medical and sceptical communities often approach conditions such as CFS, telling people presenting with very real symptoms that they're lying or imagining it because they're lazy is exactly what drives so many people with CFS to woos, where at least they won't be belittled for having a disease which modern medicine has not yet found a cause or reliable treatment for.
Carly, at 24, can usually not leave the house on her own, and when she does leave the house she has to use a walking stick, which has completely destroyed her sense of independence and her self confidence, that is aside from the almost constant pain she is in.. To have people who admittedly know nothing about this condition pronounce it imaginary and self inflicted is bad enough, to have this from self professed sceptics I find even more disappointing.
Ok, rant over.

[Sgt Badass]

Trouble is, with the diagnosis of ME being so difficult there are many people who are willing to jump on the bandwaggon to try to get some sympathy or even worse, welfare.

CFS is indeed very real whatever the causes are, but it can easily be faked. I have personally known people hobble around in front of other complaining they have it then when they thought they were not being watched suddenly take on a whole new persona.

It's like back-ache. Extremely hard to diagnose clinically. Again, I have personal experience of a relative who spent months going to and from the doctor's surgery having various tests just so they could claim benefit. They didn't have anyback injury, at weekends they were laying slabs in the back garden. The same relative also tried to claim for hearling loss. Scumbag.

So, whilst CFS may indeed be very real and accepted, it should also be accepted that some people are trying it on. And certainly the woman who had the miraculous recovery mentioned at the beginning of this post would, in my mind, be classed as a 'dodgy' case simply because 'The lightening process' is a big pile of crap.

Hope your partner gets better by the way. Trust me, no one here means to target anyone personally, it's beliefs we challenge, not people.

[John Jackson]

To have people who admittedly know nothing about this condition pronounce it imaginary and self inflicted is bad enough, to have this from self professed sceptics I find even more disappointing.
Ok, rant over.

To be fair, I don't think that people are saying that ME/CFS is imaginary or self-inflicted; merely that in some cases it could be mimicked by the unscrupulous due to the fact it's difficult to diagnose (there's no definitive test I believe).

I have pointed out in this thread, and elsewhere on these boards, that psychosomatic illness is as real as organic illness. The symptoms, the pain, the misery are just as real for both types of illness.

If ME is indeed a wholly psychosomatic disorder then it really needs to be recognised as such. The problem with psychosomatic illnesses however, is that those who suffer from them utterly reject the idea that it could be psychosomatic.

So apologies if it looked like ME was being dismissed as 'all in the mind' and there's 'nothing really wrong with you' but that's not what was intended.