The best question ever!

[hunter]

On the other hand, if you don't have any evidence for life after death then I'm curious as to why you are developing these ideas.

This question has been bugging me something fierce, because I'm also curious as to why I have chosen to include ideas of life after death in my developing philosophy without supporting evidence.

A few days participation in this forum is all it took for me to realise there is, to date, no evidence.

Because its a choice I have made, the only person with the answer is me, I have looked long and deep and found an irreducable answer.
This is it's simplest form although I can assert it in a few ways.

I do not want to die.

I will whether I want to or not, I no longer hold any allusion as to out living my body. They were heavy illusions and I have been made lighter in their absence.

Thank you, not for making this happen, but for making me make this happen.

P.S. It might be time this conversation became a thread of its own if it is to continue.

[Matt]

This question has been bugging me something fierce, because I'm also curious as to why I have chosen to include ideas of life after death in my developing philosophy without supporting evidence.

A few days participation in this forum is all it took for me to realise there is, to date, no evidence.

Because its a choice I have made, the only person with the answer is me, I have looked long and deep and found an irreducable answer.
This is it's simplest form although I can assert it in a few ways.

I do not want to die.

I will whether I want to or not, I no longer hold any allusion as to out living my body. They were heavy illusions and I have been made lighter in their absence.

Thank you, not for making this happen, but for making me make this happen.

P.S. It might be time this conversation became a thread of its own if it is to continue.

There are advantages to this new unblinkered way of thinking. People given a terminal diagnoses often report a sense of clarity and purpose. They know they're going to die soon and so they cherish every moment they have left by using it and living it to the full.

This is the gift you've now been given. There's no do-overs, no second chances. This is not a dress rehearsal so make the most of it.

[hunter]

There are advantages to this new unblinkered way of thinking. People given a terminal diagnoses often report a sense of clarity and purpose. They know they're going to die soon and so they cherish every moment they have left by using it and living it to the full.

This is the gift you've now been given. There's no do-overs, no second chances. This is not a dress rehearsal so make the most of it.

Absolutely, I've been using these baseless concepts to accept inactivity and mere time travelling, rather than using the time I have.

I never held to the idea of second chances, though I tried to believe there would always be some thing happening. Kind of like an ocean of energy where you dip your cup at birth and tip it back in at death.

[Mulder]

People know they're going to die but (in most cases) not when. That's how most of us cope.

[hunter]

I merely choose to leave the possibility open rather than closed, on the existance of ghosts.

I think this is where I said it without saying it.

[Dr B]

Hi Hunter

I agree - we should leave the possibility open. However, science is concerned with the probability of something being true. Logically speaking these are not the same thing. 8)

There is also another issue. When many people say they are leaving the possibility of ghosts open - they nearly always mean a whole host of other things as well (i.e., survivial, spirits of dead people, etc). For me, acknowledging that ghosts could be real (theoretically) does not, in and of itself, force me to accept any other preconception about what ghosts are. One does not follow necessarily from the other.

[Janot]

I agree - we should leave the possibility open. However, science is concerned with the probability of something being true. Logically speaking these are not the same thing. 8)

Just a question of terminology - I always thought that possibility and probability are just non-technical expressions for mathematical probability, with possibility being near zero, and probability being over 0.5. Why do you say they are logically different?

[Dr B]

Because logically (informal logic), they are different. It is possible that ghosts do exist, but it is so unlikely that it is highly improbable. Neither you nor I can say with 100% certainty (or expressed as a probability) that ghosts exist or that they do not.

The 0 (zero) and '1' in probability is often a hypotheical ideal (though not always of course) - particularly in the inductive sciences (i.e., psychology, neuroscience, social sciences etc).

For me the best way to think about it is by keeping in mind the differences and relationships between possibility, probability, and plausibility. There are of course relationships and these concepts may not be fully orthogonal to each other - but there are also important distinctions as well.

It may be we are using a slightly different language to describe the same thing - but remember highly improbable things can and do happen (i.e., they are possible).

[Janot]

I think we are saying the same thing. Saying something is improbable, however, could mean one of two things: it is improbable that you could toss a coin as heads 100 times in succession, but you can assign an exact mathematical value to the probability. But that Ghosts are improbable does not allow a mathematical probability to be stated, just that it is very low.

[hunter]

Hi Hunter

I agree - we should leave the possibility open. However, science is concerned with the probability of something being true. Logically speaking these are not the same thing. 8)

There is also another issue. When many people say they are leaving the possibility of ghosts open - they nearly always mean a whole host of other things as well (i.e., survivial, spirits of dead people, etc). For me, acknowledging that ghosts could be real (theoretically) does not, in and of itself, force me to accept any other preconception about what ghosts are. One does not follow necessarily from the other.

You do realise DrB that I was laughing at how close I got to calling myself open minded rather than trying to revive the argument don't you?Hence the three 's. I do like your response though.

[Vikingraider1]

Actually - Richard Dawkins and Sue Blackmore (both prominent skeptics) have both been to Persinger's lab and had their brains stimulated.

Sue had an intense experience - but richard just got a headache. Both were reported in New Scientist.

That means that Sue is going to heaven and Richard is going to hell. Trust me. I know these things...

[lost thought]

Hello is this now a closed thread only I heard that you life passes before your eyes before you die, it's called living. Sorry just a bit of humour. I have enjoyed this thread and if you don't mind can I use the list of books for myself to get educated. I have never heard of dawkins untill I found this site. I have allways relied on being a cynical b&*t$%d. Thanks for the thoughts. Lost Thought

[asydhouse]

What a fantastic thread!

I almost feel as if I've witnessed a miracle! I'd love to shake hunter's hand...nay, I'd give him a big hug and tell him (or her!) I love 'em... so rare to see a woo-bedazzled poster grow and free themselves, and humbly reexamine their presuppositions... in short, start to really think!

And after such an unpromising start too. Really like spring arriving after a long cold winter, the feeling hunter has given me this morning (helped along by the persistence and magnanimous devotion of time from so many regulars... you've proven the worth of persistence in reiterating methods and principles of critical thinking... I feel so grateful to you all!)

But what's happened to hunter? Anyone heard from him/her? Now I'm worried about hir well-being! I was keen to congratulate hir on being such a fine example of a human being, actually engaging in the kind of self-examination that the religious usually fail to manage, even when pretending to do so...

An inspiration! Come back hunter, where are you!