Crystals

[ann]

Hi from a newbie :)

Yes please, test away - but there is nothing remotely 'energetic' or 'vibrational' about crystals.

I come from a health and healing site where I was the numero uno admin for many years and it began as a rather interesting and open minded place but rapidly became a meeting place for therapists of all kinds making many ridiculous claims.

Fortunately, I have a life so I passed the kooks by and pushed for more important forums such as philosophy and science which I duly monitored.

I'm rather fed up and have left - why do people make such outlandish statements such as 'crystals heal?' They do not heal, but they look very pretty There is absolutely no evidence to suggest they hold the earth's vibrational energy: ( well, any more than we all do

I have in fact been a therapist for many years, given it all up to be a Letting Agent (a lot better pay) and I have the usual A&P Dip: and the Holisitc Therapy Dip: and practised my craft, hoping to find something worked - was I gullible? No, not really, simply changing careers at the time and searching for some 'truths' - needless to say I did not find them within the confines of Reflexology, Aromatherapy, or Spiritual Healing (which I spent three years trying to crack) :-\

So I searched for a place to come to post now and then of my experiences in the la de da world of quackery of all kinds.

Ann

[Admin]

Hi, Ann. Welcome to the forums.

What interests me about these (claimed) alternative healing modalities is that the actual therapies themselves (be it crystals, 'energy healing', etc.) do absolutely nothing medically yet many people feel benefit from them. ???

Of course, I have a good idea as to why that is, but in your experience, who are the type of people who benefit from 'holistic' therapies and what sort of conditions do they help with best?

We know what these therapies can't do, but what is it that they can do?

[ann]

Hi John,

I think after years in the field I can answer your question with impunity

My clients fell into two catagories 1) very needy and lonely and 2) normal people wanting a good massage!

The ratio was 85% for no 1, and 15% for number 2.

I had clients with ME, whose GP's had more or less washed their hands of them, and were desperate to try anything. I had clients who were going through the menopause and didn't wish to take HRT and also found their GP's to be unhelpful. There were a great many people who were single, either widowed, or without a partner, and others who had very few friends.

Mostly they wanted and needed to TALK - and often they listened to my advice which was - as I trained also in diet and nutrition, to change their lifestyle and their diet and advise about supplements which could help them.

When you are touching someone, which is what these people lacked, normal human contact, you form a bond of a kind. Performing a massage or a reflexology treatment is a very personal act, and 'opens' up the client to reveal what is troubling them.

If you are a wise therapist, whch I soon learned how to be, you will realise that the therapy itself does very little in the way of healing, in a physical sense, (although massage is a very good muscle relaxant and lymphatic cleaner), and the REAL therapy is that for an hour or so the client can talk to someone who will actually LISTEN and pay attentiion, give advice and never condemn.

So in fact you become a COUNSELLOUR.

This, in my opinion, is the healing action which takes place.

Ann

[Jocky]

Hello Ann, and welcome to UKS!

Mostly they wanted and needed to TALK ... the REAL therapy is that for an hour or so the client can talk to someone who will actually LISTEN and pay attentiion, give advice and never condemn ... So in fact you become a COUNSELLOUR

I think this is a telling insight, and also sheds light on the apparent 'efficacy' of things like homeopathy and chiropractic. People who have problems of any sort want (in fact, NEED) to talk about them - but if they are socially isolated and not in a position to do that readily then therapy of this kind would present an ideal opportunity. The supposed treatment itself is actually little more than a pretext for social contact.

This all very well, if you happen to hit upon a therapist who you get on with, and also turns out to be to be a good counsellor - but there is also considerable potential for harm here. Counselling is a delicate business - you could be dealing with people who have quite serious problems and have suffered a lot of hurt. A therapist who casually says the wrong thing, especially when the client percieves them to be in a position of authority, could conceviably do considerable damage or induce people to take unwise actions.

It is a unfortunately true that doctors are generally far too busy to deliver social support of this kind as part of their consultations - and of course not all doctors are cut out to be good at that kind of thing in any case, any more than all reflexologists will be. As a result, people who are looking for that kind of support will be tempted to gravitate towards so-called 'holistic' therapies, where time is not so pressing.

It seems to me that the best advice is - if you need counselling, go to a qualified counsellor. Don't take a gamble on drawing support and advice from someone who thinks that pretty stones make you better!

[chillzero]

Welcome Ann.
I have come from a similar kind of background, and now much prefer my skeptical lifestyle. :D

It is quite funny at the moment, because I have just written up an article about new-age healers and how their approach can be very detrimental. At the same time I am suffering an injury from a minor car crash, and was sent to a physiotherapist. On walking into her office I notice a huge chuck of quartz crystal on her desk, and she initially spends a few minutes just standing with her hand lightly on the top of my head. Warning bells.

However, I tell myself not to judge too quickly, and perhaps she can feel little muscular movements in my skull, and isn't reading my energy as I suspected. Indeed we are soon into massaging the painful areas and getting some excercises defined to improve mobility. So I didn't even ask at the time.

Last week though we had a long talk because we were discussing the nature of my pain, and how it possibly relates back to a previous accident. The talk takes a bit of a turn when she suggests that perhaps, in some way, I set myself up for this accident in order to bring attention to the problem areas. Now, John has read my article, so he has some idea of how I might react to this. I have to say I stayed quite calm, surprisingly. She is one of those who believes that we define our life path before we are born into it, and that our cells retain all these memories of everything we experience, and that we control everything that happens to us, on some level or another.

I smiled and informed her politely that I understand exactly where she is coming from, but I do not share those views. On further chat I point out that I was stopped and parked in my car, and therefore in no way could I control the fact that somebody ploughed into the back of me while talking to his puppy instead of watching the road. We had quite an interesting discussion, the end of which was an agreement to disagree. As long as she is treating my physical being and not my energies or anything else, I am happy to continue going to her (she has been appointed by the insurance company anyway, so I doubt I can change it without more severe disagreement). I have made good enough improvement to believe that this is the right choice.

It was interesting discussing this with a believer, as for a few years now I have really only conversed on it with the skeptics here and at JREF. it strengthened my belief that I have made better choices since my 'woo' days. Ann, I hope you have as much satisfaction out of the new-age loop as I have had.

[Admin]

Thanks for the response Ann.

I would say that what you're saying pretty much agrees with the conclusions that I have come to as someone who's never been into any of this kind of therapy.

I think a lot of it is not actually a substitute for (or alternative to) real medicine, it's a substitute for psychotherapy - 'talking therapy' in other words.

I can see that it serves a social function and people benefit emotionally from the therapies but I too, like Jocky and Chilly above, have some reservations about their use.

I think alternative, new-age, therapies are fine as long as they are used appropriately - i.e. in their proper context; however, patients can over rely on them and the therapists themselves often vastly exaggerate the scope of their treatments. Curing cancer being the obvious, and frequent, claim that many of them make.

Chilly's article will be on the main site soon. It illustrates the way that new-age thinking about 'healing' etc. blames the victim for being ill or suffering ill-fate (karma - you choose your path before you were born etc. ) and that can be as damaging psychologically as the problems you're enduring!

[ann]

Hi everyone, great posts - and I am 100% with you on what you say.

In fact I haven't been trained as a counsellour with the BCA (I think)? but took a two year course at college in counselling alongside the Holistic Therapy course. It was so bad, I left at one point - an ex-midwife was the tutor who hadn't a clue what counselling entailed and literally made it up as she went along. I put in a complaint and I was moved to a better class where the tutor was fully trained - and I did learn a great deal there, but found that, if I am honest, it was all common-sense which I have in abundance anyway

If this had been a fully comprehensive course, which you cannot get at a Regional College, it would have included some Psychotherapy - and this very important aspect - learning about the essential parts of human nature and reactions therein, was greatly overlooked. The odd Freudian and Jungian reference and that was that :(- so I felt it was incomplete and made up for it with private study.


I also found around 20% of my clients were happy hypochondriacs, in that they thoroughly enjoyed their imaginery illnesses, and were very self absorbed, if not self Obsessed. I remember feeling quite drained after a session with one of these people. ???

However, I do very much agree with you Jocky, that counselling, down by an amateur can cause more harm than good, as we all have to be very careful about 'good advice' mainly because it relates more to our own lives than those of one's clients, and, some therapists also become like little gods, pleased with their own divinity and issuing all sorts of dangerous advice.


Hi Chillzero,

I can absolutely relate to your experiences :-\ I have had them myself, but now, if I need any kind of treatment, it is strictly of the allopathic kind, or a trusted handful of people who will perform a massage etc., without any crystals, angel guides or such like.

As said, I have been and still am on forums, in fact run one with partners, which has an element of the angelic hordes and the know it all spiritual gurus, and I steer clear of them and report on important current affairs and other medical issues which SCIENCE has cracked! I also endured 3 years of 'spiritual development/healing' classes - run by very pleasant and worthy people with whom I am still friends - and I contined to the end to prove to myself that I really was a dyed in the wool sceptic There were too many questions they could not or would not answer, and some real fruit loops there as members and although I take the view that "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy," I believe mankind cannot move forward unless within a scientific and logical approach.

So, yes, in most ways I have had satisfaction out of the 'new age loop' as at least I didn't wander around the edges, wondering if - I plunged in and tried to make sense of it all. 8)


Hi John,

Yes indeed, patients can overuse therapies, it is very common - and a substitute for them, and an excuse NOT to face their problems head on.

Ann

[kath23]

I think a lot of it is not actually a substitute for (or alternative to) real medicine, it's a substitute for psychotherapy - 'talking therapy' in other words.

Yes but also it's a strong placebo affect. Because if you have paid what is for you a substantial amount of money for someone to do their 'schizzle and shimmy' over you, you will convince yourself you feel better.

And an individual who is persuasive, can convince you of their 'powers' (if you are desparate.)

[Admin]

Yes but also it's a strong placebo affect. Because if you have paid what is for you a substantial amount of money for someone to do their 'schizzle and shimmy' over you, you will convince yourself you feel better.

Absolutely.

There are several ways that placebo effects operate - I use the term in the plural as there's not actually one thing that is 'the placebo effect'.

Reciprocation is one. If someone has shown an interest in you and has done their best to help then you will reciprocate and "feel better" to please the therapist. This is probably the effect that the placebo effect (which is Latin for 'I shall please') is based on.

Placebo effects are very interesting and range from things like wishful thinking to conditioned responses.

They are a menace to medical researchers but an absolute boon to alternative medicine practitioners.

[ann]

Very interesting to read.

I propose all 'alternative' therapists should be licensed in future.

Ann

[Araneus]

Yes but also it's a strong placebo affect. Because if you have paid what is for you a substantial amount of money for someone to do their 'schizzle and shimmy' over you, you will convince yourself you feel better.

That reminds me of an ex-colleague who was afraid of spiders, and went to "group hypnotherapy" to cure the phobia, after which she was able to hold a spider in her hand.

In fact, the "hypnotherapy" is almost certainly a red herring -- by the time you have paid your hundred quid and been told that you will hold a spider, you are pretty much going to do so otherwise you have wasted your money. Since exposure therapy is the one of the most effective cures for specific phobia, this may well have helped.

[tkingdoll]

Ann - welcome to the forums, it's great to get your insight into this.

I have lots to say on this topic but am dashing out for dinner! Will post again tomorrow when I get time.

[ann]

Look forward to reading your thoughts Tkingdoll. Ann :)