I do believe apprentice that the subject of this and all the other threads across the board are actually about you and what you are presenting as a cult remember? Your behaviour certainly would verify that you were indeed and are still very much a part of that cult mentality. The only complaints we have heard on this and upon reading other forums are from you and the other apprentices as they refer to themselves, who slept with their teacher though he was/is married?, a couple ex-girlfriends from over 30 years ago, some perhaps not that long ago, and some very rightfully so confused patients.Originally Posted by apprentice
As to your teachers "amazing claims" you were obviously one of those closely tied to him that supported those "amazing claims". The rest of us on the other hand have said from the beginning that it is bunk, where as you are still presenting him as a god somehow capable of putting your small group under his spell and doing his bidding to excuse your own behaviours. Up until now, some of us were somewhat sympathetic, as we have all been duped from time to time, however being duped into believing what someone tells you is one thing, taking that story and using it to excuse your own doings is quite another. If alleged misconduct took place then it is the patients that are the real 'victims' if any in this situation, and if they are smart and still at all sane they will have put a healthy distance between you and your teacher. But as Davron said, you are not interested in them, you are only interested in hearing your own voice.
You verbally attack anyone who challenges you in the slightest. As I have been saying all along this does not bode at all well for your case. You have and can not offer any evidence here or anywhere but with the police, and other organizations, however as Bowes has offered, it seems you and the others actually let these alleged abuses go on and even facilitated them by facilitating your gurus "sickness"? Is that right?
On one hand you present numerous horrifying accounts and allude to happenings and events, then on the other hand you seem to all back peddle and say "but wait, we actually did not see anything, it all happened behind closed doors."
Your statements are just rude at this point beyond measure, I do not know if you have stepped outside of your little box of feeling sorrowfully sorry for yourself for having inappropriate relations with your teacher, but there is a war going on where Davron comes from.
Aside from that you're absolutely right! People do invent gurus and cults, and they do imagine what goes on between their guru and themselves.
A cult has not one but two integral structures to make it a "cult". A guru, or showman in this case, and guess what part two is apprentice? That's right, YOU are also an integral part of that structure. There is always a core group around the "leader" upholding and bloating the stories often times for their own benefit or status, most especially if they are somehow close, as in the case of a relationship. Without them, without their own stories, countless testimonials and salesmanship to others, there is no cult.
Chris Farmer,
What exactly are Roderick Lane and Stephanie Wright's involvement in your products? Stephanie Wright has been presented as Christopher Hansard's consort for many years, and Roderick Lane was once a practitioner listed at Eden Medical Centre. What has happened here exactly? Their site was linked to your site, though as you say your own site has just recently been put online is that correct? So how is it possible that they would be linked? ???
Sarama
Apprentice
Terribly sorry if my posting was off thread. Bowe's name is mentioned repeatedly on most of the pages of this thread and in your first ever posting - only the second in the entire thread - you suggested that people should read one of Bowe's blogs. On that basis I was under the impression that he was pertinent to your discussions.
Our advisors noticed the frequent references to Bowe here and suggested that I take a look. When I saw your recent lengthy posting that mentions the name Bowe 19 times - but makes no reference to Christopher Hansard whatsoever - I presumed that you were seriously interested in discovering information about Bowe. Clearly you were having problems finding the information you were looking for so I thought I'd help you out.
I have no information regarding Christopher Hansard other than what I have recently been forced to read so I'm afraid I can't help you out there.
I take your point re the subject matter of the thread and apologise for interrupting your discussions although your comment does beg the question as to why you wrote such a lengthy off thread posting in the first place.
BTW is your alias in the Ross forum Dorje by any chance?
Sarama
I don't wish to appear obtuse and would be more than happy to provide you with any information that I might have that may be useful to you. Unfortunately I'm not sure exactly what you are asking and you appear to have been misinformed.
I'm presuming that you are referring to the Tibetan Way website that I produced for a client. If that is the case then Roderick Lane and Stephanie Wright have no involvement with that site. I would also point out that the products being sold on that site are not my products. The code and design of that website is my product but nothing else.
As for Christopher Hansard's consort I'm afraid that you would have to discuss that with them.
I'm not sure what you mean by:
"Their site was linked to your site"
I was recently informed that Roderick Lane's website has a link to Tibetan Way but I'm not aware of any others from the people you mention. The Tibetan Way website has been online for some 9 months and to the best of my knowledge the Christopher Hansard sites had all been taken offline some months prior to that so there could never have been any links.
So I think you have answered your own question - it is in fact impossible that they would be linked. As far as I am aware the only people who have suggested any such link are Bowe and his cronies and I'm afraid you have to take their statements with a large pinch of salt.
I hope I've answered your question but if you'd like further info then just let me know.
Chris Farmer
Firstly, I am not here to interrogate you or put you on the spot and believe me I take everything these people post with a salt factory. I got my information directly from Roderick Lanes site when referred there by another poster. These references are taken from his site www.rodericklane.co.uk.
If you visit the archives to Chris Hansard's old site, both Roderick Lane and Stephanie Wright were listed as practitioner's there. It has been reported that Stephanie Wright was the mistress of Chris, and was "taught" by him as well. Apparently he taught Tibetan Bon Medicine to her, and some form of exercise called Kum Nye as well which she wrote a book about. Like you, I'm not at all interested in their affairs, but am interested in the connection between the site you put up and theirs because as quoted below "Women's Wisdom" was/is Christopher Hansard's product, ingredients, name, et all.
Maybe I don't understand just how this works, but why would Roderick Lane (a peer of Hansard's) be endorsing both Stephanie Wright (a former lover and apprentice apparently) and Tibetan Ways/Christopher Hansards products. Do you know? Are the site and the products your own, or theirs?
Find a Body Worker:
Chiropractors Stephanie Wright D.C. (B.App.Sci. Chiropractic) 07963 974 627 Old Brompton Road, London SW7. Stephanie is a highly skilled chiropractor with a deep knowlege of many systems of natural medicine, acupuncture, herbs and exercise systems.
TibetanWay.co.uk
Tibetanway are a small internet company that provide complete herbal and nutrition packages. They are only internet based and run at a very low overhead. The product I find I use most is 'Womans Wisdom'. It consists of three herbal formulas that have proved to be most helpful in PMT, prei-menopause and post-menopausal conditions.
They also operate a version of facebook for the worldwide Buddhist community it is used by Buddhists, freethinkers and many in the artistic community.
http://www.tibetanway.co.uk/
Just as a matter of interest, is anyone else getting the distinct feeling that apprentice, "Jeff Bowes and his cronies" are simply being antagonistic purely just to keep their threads going strong?
Originally Posted by apprentice
Sarama and Davron, thanks for all the good work keeping this thread active. All the best stuff happens in the first couple of pages.
My apologies Mr. Farmer, you have stated quite clearly here that they are not your own products. So you simply run the website for someone else is that correct?
I am just not that interested and am so tired of hearing about it to be frank, as I am sure we all are by now.
Could you have put a website up for a third party such as Roderick Lane and not be aware of it? Is it that he and Stephanie are being somehow supported by who ever hired you and that Stephanie being an apprentice and having knowledge of the products is endorsing those products and is selling them through your site?
I'm being quite sincere here by the way, and I do not want to jump to conclusions. From what I can see this happens all too often, and that's why I'm asking.
Thank you
Apprentice,
I have reviewed your answers here and on the RR forum. I have reached the following conclusion you are either Flying Saucer Man or Dorje. It is clear that they form a team of mutual supports.
When confronted with a question you do not like or cannot answer as it involves cold anylitical truth you resort to the 'india lie', that is you turn your face away and remain silent and pretend it did not happen. In all cases of abuse and trauma hysteria and delusion are involved simply because of the trauma state.
Your acid throwing language leads me to the conclusion that you were party to some form of abuse. You may have been abused by the Pizza Guru which would be sad or the greater sadness may be that he encouraged to join in his abuse of others. If that is so it is a sad thing to know you were one of the evil sheep.
In this area I have a great deal of knowlege before you rage, review your statments and read the following books below... I have. I had spent many years talking to those who do and have done terrible things and many years listening to those who did things unknowingly, you fall into one of those groups.
CIA manual of interrogation: coercive force and passive interaction
1966 edition.
KGB Manual of interrogative intelligence gathering.
Section 12
Use of pen pals for intelligence gathering.
Dissention as a method of evaluation.
Essentials Of The Reid Technique: Criminal Interrogation And Confessions
By Fred E. Inbau, Joseph P. Buckley, Brian C. Jayne
Effective Interviewing and Interrogation Techniques
Gordon, N.J. & Fleisher, W.L. (2006).
The ethics of interrogation and the American Psychological Association: A critique of policy and process
2000 Security Cooperation Conference
"Perspective Is Everything"
Extracts
Principles of Kinesic Interview & Interrogation
by Stan B. Walters
So Dorje, which I inderstand is a religious symbol of power.. interesting choice. seeking to associate yourself with power and stating that you are poweful. Or is it Apprentice 'one who learns from a master and is given his secrets'. Or is it Jeff Bowe 'Flying Saucer Man' ( yes my invention)
Two names which reveal a truth
DID YOU ABUSE? WERE YOU ABUSED or is it both?
Davron with no funny gas who pointed out to you Google is not the only search engine to the person too stupid to find a webspider. Sometimes I think the mad men here with guns are more honest than the hate mail poster on the net. When they make a statment they stand the chance of loss of life.
You shout to hide your rage, impotence and guilt.
Last edited by davron; 14th June 2008 at 08:55 AM.
Davron,
It seems likely that apprentice and dorje are indeed the same person. According to Dorje's testimony on the RR site, his encounter with Hansard was minimal, though he states he has been aware of him operating in the community for a while. It has never been clear why dorje has such animosity towards hansard. It would be good if he would be honest about that. Apparently, when hansard was first starting aout he went trolling for customers in the gay district of town. I wonder if dorje initially had an attraction to hansard, which hansard exploited in some way, then spurned him. How about it apprentice, what really is it all about for you?
Sarama
Your posting 13/6/08: 5:57PM
I can see from your other postings that you are simply asking reasonable questions rather than attempting to interrogate me so no problems. I'm also glad to hear that you regard some posters' comments with a healthy degree of cynicism ( in this case realism )
I know that both Roderick Lane and Stephanie Wright were practitioners at Hansard's centre but it appears that many other people were as well so I don't understand why people keep dragging those two into the spotlight. I've also seen the postings in the RR forum regarding inappropriate relationships - the initial posting on that issue suggested that there might be a relationship and within a few pages certain people had accepted that suggestion as being fact. I saw no evidence in the RR forum to support that suggestion so that would appear to be in line with so many of the claims in the RR forum. Certain people will accept any unsupported nonsense so long as it fits in with their pre-conceived fantasies but then attack anyone who says anything that is supported by facts but does not fit in with their view of the world - its really quite sad.
As far as I know all the practitioners who rented rooms at Hansard's clinic - as opposed to being involved with the management - were well respected practitioners in their fields. On that basis I cannot see the problem with Roderick Lane mentioning one of his fellow practitioners on his personal site. Given that he only mentions one Tibetan Way product out of a current range of 24 that doesn't seem to me to be much of an endorsement. As to why Roderick Lane mentions Stephanie Wright and Tibetan Way on his site I'm afraid you would have to ask him.
I would however repeat that the products on the Tibetan Way site are not mine.
Chris
Sarama
Your posting: 13/6/08: 6:19PM
You are correct about the Tibetan Way website - I designed and developed it and am now administering it and helping with ongoing developments.
No there is no way that I could have put up a website for Roderick Lane without being aware of it. I develop websites from scratch on the basis of a client's requirements. If you look at the source code of the Roderick Lane site you will see towards the bottom of the code that the page was developed by MrSite. That is a site that provides templates and simple page building tools so that people can construct basic websites for themselves.
While the clients who own Tibetan Way are supporting various third party projects they are all of a charitable nature and they are not supporting either Roderick Lane or Stephanie Wright. Nor have I seen any evidence of Stephanie Wright endorsing Tibetan Way products and she is certainly not selling anything at all via that site.
I hope this clarifies the situation and - once again - I will give you any further information that I am able to provide. However I cannot comment on the actions of third parties who choose to link to sites that I have produced. That is simply the nature of the Web and you would have to ask those people directly why they chose to link to the site.
Chris
Once again I have looked into Wikipedia just to check that my understanding of a process is correct. As this site dedicated to sceptical enquiry I wanted to make sure that my thoughts were all in line before I did this posting.
Below is Wikipedia definition of scepticism in its multiple forms
In ordinary usage, skepticism or scepticism (Greek: skeptomai, to look about, to consider; see also spelling differences) refers to
1. an attitude of doubt or a disposition to incredulity either in general or toward a particular object,
2. the doctrine that true knowledge or knowledge in a particular area is uncertain, or
3. the method of suspended judgment, systematic doubt, or criticism that is characteristic of skeptics (Merriam–Webster).
In philosophy, skepticism refers more specifically to any one of several propositions. These include propositions about
1. an inquiry
2. the limitations of knowledge,
3. a method of obtaining knowledge through systematic doubt and continual testing,
4. the arbitrariness, relativity, or subjectivity of moral values,
5. a method of intellectual caution and suspended judgment,
In classical philosophy, skepticism refers to the teachings and the traits of the Skeptikoi, a school of philosophers of whom it was said that they "asserted nothing but only opined" (Liddell and Scott). In this sense, philosophical skepticism, or Pyrrhonism, is the philosophical position that one should avoid the postulation of final truths. Turned on itself, skepticism would question that skepticism is a valid perspective at all.
I noticed that the Flying Saucer Man (Jeff Bowe) has been placing more repeated garbage on his website, in fact it is a blog. What is curious is the information that he is posting is recycled information both from the originators of the information, Tibetanway, and other people's information placed upon the website, that place of notorious sincerity and integrity the Rick Ross forum.
In the nature of skeptical enquiry I am wondering why? A man who states that he is concerned about Tibet and the welfare of Tibetan people, he's single-minded and very infant like pursuit of this company is very confusing. If he was genuinely interested in helping the people of Tibet wouldn't he be raising political awareness and or money for charitable causes as Tibetanway are doing? Instead he is trawling the night for recycled data trying to stop a company that says its ethos is charitable this I find very confusing.
We all are aware of his grievance with the Pizza Guru (Christopher Hansard) and it has been observed that there may be in fact be a link of some form of abuse possibly sexual in kind between him Dorje and Apprentice they may even be all the same person. So what is his primary motive? His actions look more like those of someone trying to spoil something, hiding in plain sight, so that others are not aware of what is going on behind them.
If you wish to see the Tibetan way rebuttal try following this link http://www.tibetanway.co.uk/rebuttal.html
The statements they refer to are available online if you search hard enough, no Apprentice/Dorje I am not going to do your research for you try finding them yourself. It makes very interesting reading and for a man who supposedly supports that Tibetan community this represents a shameful episode in Flying Saucer Man (Jeffrey Bowe) life.
Davron
Last edited by davron; 19th June 2008 at 09:10 AM.
Sarama,
I have posted this on other thread but it may interest you.
Kis
I do not know if you have seen this. The man has not replied, so working on his logic method he must be guilty.
http://www.tibetanway.co.uk/BoweLetter.html
What I do not understand of Bowe is if you wanted to ask a question of a person in the GB why would you post on American cult site?
Davron
Because Americans know how to advertise and market like no body's business! Bowes and the journalist who began the thread obviously wanted to reach Mass.
Just look at the contrast between conversations or debate on the American Cult Education Channel and this one. The former is filled with hysteria, backbiting and banning.
I wonder why they have not just taken legal action. Nothing says "I love you" quite like a defamation or harassment suit, and many on RR have left themselves open to that repeatedly.
yawn
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks