Christopher Hansard - Tibetan Bon Medicine

[Sarama]

From what I have read, Rosita Arvigo apprenticed with a Maya Shaman for 10 years, but then formalised the massage part of the treatment from an anatomical and physiological perspective. Think she came from a massage/naturopathic background, I believe.

Having read about it, I think the abdominal massage part can have great benefits for everyone. Just not sure about the Spiritual healing part though!

I would say that the abdominal massage is a valid treatment. Just not sure about the Spiritual healing part though.

You think, or you know?

You are a sports massage therapist, and have no doubt invested a lot of time and money in to your trade, therefore you will feel the need to defend other similar modalities and treatments. You were also a nurse from what I understand for many years, however I'm sure you will agree that when a massage is mixed with such Spiritual claims like those you have alluded to it becomes something entirely different. In this situation it has become dangerous.

[Sarama]

Just as another matter of interest, if you follow the trail of names being mentioned from RR, JB's and of course the constant reference to CH's own archived sites, you will find that some of Pizza Guru's "apprentices" low and behold are now practicing Maya Abdominal Massage.

While I will refrain from jumping to the more irrational often erroneous conclusions, it certainly does seem a rather uncanny coincidence that the very practice was being advertised on RR in the wake of what the petition referred to as their "dismissal".

[Neuromuscular Therapist]

You think, or you know?

You are a sports massage therapist, and have no doubt invested a lot of time and money in to your trade, therefore you will feel the need to defend other similar modalities and treatments. You were also a nurse from what I understand for many years, however I'm sure you will agree that when a massage is mixed with such Spiritual claims like those you have alluded to it becomes something entirely different. In this situation it has become dangerous.

I am a Physical Therapist and a Sports Massage Therapist and yes, I used to be an RN, but decided to go and retrain in physical therapy and sports massage so I could do more work with clients involved in sports and athletes.

As for what I said about Rosita Arvigo, I went and looked at the website and it is stated on her website/the website of the Arvigo Institute.

I am not trying to defend anything. Physical therapy and sports massage are mainstream therapies anyway, but massage does not need to be linked to anything spiritual and most people as I have already said can benefit from abdominal work. I do abdominal work on lots of my clients when they need it and there is nothing spiritual attached to that.

Abdominal work can benefit lots of people and thats all I am saying. It is also well known and well thought of in the States too.

[davron]

Hey Apprentice,

the air was hot and dry on the beach, so the scuba was great. I dont think I can post pictures here, did some great photgraphy with a new underwater camera.

Were you one of Pizza Gurus apprentices? What was he like to be around? Did you see him abusing ladies in his office? Interested to know as most of the stuff you hear is just second grade gabble.

Flying Saucer Man also says a lot of Pre-buddhist stuff does not exist, if the fish the internet you will find a lot of people and sites mentioning the stuff. Could be that we use Yahoo and not European based Google which is why we get more hits on searches.

Davron

[apprentice]

7 June 2008 Davron said:

‘Flying Saucer Man has made several statments which he has repeated a lot, which if you bother to reserch them are just plain not true, but he keeps banging away. If you use a 'web spider' you will find the references ( a web spider searches all of the internet not just Yahoo). Check the things he has stated as facts.’

8 June 2008 Davron said:

‘Flying Saucer Man also says a lot of Pre-buddhist stuff does not exist, if the fish the internet you will find a lot of people and sites mentioning the stuff. Could be that we use Yahoo and not European based Google which is why we get more hits on searches.’


According to the UK-Skeptics website:

‘Skepticism is a method of inquiry, not a position on matters. It is a way of examining claims and making decisions. The idea is to apply the rules of logic and reason with critical thinking skills in assessing claims or issues and to form conclusions based on evidence, not on personal preference or prejudice.’


Davron, I really would appreciate access to the evidence on which you base your conclusions. You seem willing only to offer avoidance. Are you sure you are a skeptic and not a troll whose purpose is to distract attention from the subject of this thread?

[Sarama]

7 June 2008 Davron said:

Davron, I really would appreciate access to the evidence on which you base your conclusions. You seem willing only to offer avoidance. Are you sure you are a skeptic and not a troll whose purpose is to distract attention from the subject of this thread?

The same could be said of you "apprentice".
Davron asked you a very pertinent question to do with this very thread.

And I quote: "Were you one of Pizza Gurus apprentices? What was he like to be around? Did you see him abusing ladies in his office?"

So "apprentice" what was your part and acquaintance with the subject of this forum? We would "really appreciate access to the evidence on which you have based your conclusions".

Like I said in an earlier posting in reply to you, I do not buy the one-man cult show that's being dished up on one of the many forums and various blogspots.

‘Skepticism is a method of inquiry, not a position on matters. It is a way of examining claims and making decisions. The idea is to apply the rules of logic and reason with critical thinking skills in assessing claims or issues and to form conclusions based on evidence, not on personal preference or prejudice.’

Your claim seems to be that your subject is a dangerous person and you and your cohorts have gone to great lengths to publicise your allegations from behind an assortment of pseudonyms all over the internet, but not one of you can hide your prejudice, the story has been grossly slanted from the beginning, and you continue to cite hate based on no evidence.

S

[Sarama]

As for what I said about Rosita Arvigo, I went and looked at the website and it is stated on her website/the website of the Arvigo Institute.

...massage does not need to be linked to anything spiritual and most people as I have already said can benefit from abdominal work. I do abdominal work on lots of my clients when they need it and there is nothing spiritual attached to that.

Abdominal work can benefit lots of people and thats all I am saying. It is also well known and well thought of in the States too.

Fair enough Neuro, but Rosita Arvigo is claiming that massaging someone's abdominal area can increase fertility, would you agree with this assertion from the perspective of an RN and now a sports therapist?

Just because something is popular or well known, does not make it exempt from either criticism or examination. On the contrary, the more popular it becomes the more it leaves itself up for inquiry. The RR lot have brought it to the attention of the public. So lets start a separate thread on the topic before we get accused of diverting attention.

At least until we find the link between those on RR and MAM.

Ta,
S

[apprentice]

Sarama,

as my name implies I was an apprentice of Christopher Hansard.

The subject of this thread is Christopher Hansard. Pizza Guru is Davron’s invention.

My evidence has been given to the appropriate authorities – the police. It has no place here.

My position on this thread has always remained the same – that people with direct experience of abuse by Christopher Hansard, in whatever form, take their complaints to the police and to ‘Witness against abuse’.


Sarama you say:

‘Your claim seems to be that your subject is a dangerous person and you and your cohorts have gone to great lengths to publicise your allegations from behind an assortment of pseudonyms all over the internet, but not one of you can hide your prejudice, the story has been grossly slanted from the beginning, and you continue to cite hate based on no evidence.’


Yes, I do believe that Christopher Hansard is a dangerous person.

I do not have cohorts. My contribution here is individual and independent.

I do not have an assortment of pseudonyms all over the internet.

I have no intention of hiding my prejudice.

Yes, my story is slanted.

Your comment: ‘and you continue to cite hate based on no evidence.’ is meaningless.


Evidence of Christopher Hansard’s fraud is freely available in his books and on internet archives of his many websites. Christopher Hansard has done nothing and can do nothing to prove any of his fantasy history because it is a fantasy. In the face of challenge he has withdrawn his stories from his websites and his ‘medical centre’ has collapsed.


Davron, would you like to answer my questions now? 16 October 2007, you said:

‘I decided to start posting after I saw a reference to Jeff Bowe, my how times change. When I first came across Mr Bowe he was in the land of the fairies writing articles and a really serious flying saucer nut. He was a firm supporter of 'aliens ate my dog' and 'George Bush is really a fish' category of journalism. So it came as some surprise to find that he had read reinvented himself as the defender of all things true and Tibetan.’

7 June 2008 2007 said:

‘Flying Saucer Man has made several statments which he has repeated a lot, which if you bother to reserch them are just plain not true, but he keeps banging away. If you use a 'web spider' you will find the references ( a web spider searches all of the internet not just Yahoo). Check the things he has stated as facts.’

I guess with your superior Israeli ‘web spider’ it should be easy for you to find and post some references to support that suggestion don’t you think?


Sarama, do you really find my question to Davron so unreasonable? Are you not interested in why he should want to deflect interest from Christopher Hansard onto two characters of his own invention?

Or would you prefer to go back to your little chat about Mayan abdominal massage?

[Sarama]

Sarama,

as my name implies I was an apprentice of Christopher Hansard.

The subject of this thread is Christopher Hansard. Pizza Guru is Davron’s invention.

My evidence has been given to the appropriate authorities – the police. It has no place here.

Then why is it you keep posting here and elsewhere, if you say your "evidence" has been given to the police and has no place here? Are you implying that the police and appropriate authorities have not taken your "evidence" seriously enough to warrant at the very least an investigation?
If that is the case, then why should the public? Instead of just getting defensive, think about it. Why would the public take it seriously if the police have not?

Yes, I do believe that Christopher Hansard is a dangerous person.

Then I will repeat Davron's question to you: "Did you see him abusing ladies in his office?"

and if so, then why are you only doing something about it now only after having been dismissed as reported? Or do you join the supposed ranks of women who seem to have met him halfway in crossing professional and ethical boundaries?

If that is the case, then you will have an even more difficult time in a court of law, and from what I can tell, claiming that your teacher is actually some sort of ancient (though apparently fraudulent) demi-god who cast an evil spell on you and made you fall in love with him, is just not going to hold up.

What I am trying to impart to you, is that going online in the way that you have done has probably hurt your case more than anything else. And if there are actual 'victims' then you may have hurt them also by bringing their pain into the public domain. Those offering Soul Retrieval, and various forms of massage therapies for the kinds of abuses that you are claiming are also not helping. As I suggested to mariac, they would be much better off going completely outside of the situation and not having anything to do what so ever with anyone connected to this gent. You for instance having been an "apprentice" are in no position to be offering anyone help at least until you get help yourself, and I am not talking about any form of Exorcism, or Shamanism here.

I have no intention of hiding my prejudice.

Yes, my story is slanted.

Then perhaps you should stick to the type of forum in which you are better accustomed, may we suggest the "Cult Education Cult" ?

Your comment: ‘and you continue to cite hate based on no evidence.’ is meaningless.

Perhaps you will find it more meaningful then when I inform you that in making such defamatory statements without any actual evidence, unfortunately puts the onus on you to prove such statements, and until such time your statements could very well be deemed as defamatory. Again, not helping your case, and more than likely detrimental in the long run.

Evidence of Christopher Hansard’s fraud is freely available in his books and on internet archives of his many websites. Christopher Hansard has done nothing and can do nothing to prove any of his fantasy history because it is a fantasy.

Again, the onus is on you and not on Hansard to prove your allegations.
It may not be fair, but it's true.

What may be most unfortunate about what you and your cohorts are presenting is that your guru seems to be in a completely unregulated field if I am not mistaken? If that is the case, then you will find your task even more difficult to accomplish. Until his and other similar alternative forms of healing are regulated you may find it difficult to stop him from practicing, fraud or not. Even Witness might have a hard time having any impact unless you all actually get it together and get yourselves organised for a class action suit. Davron actually made reference to this as well if you will recall? Right now however it's looking very much on the outside like you are all completely round the twist and are in no position to be pointing your fingers outwardly at anyone. That in short, is what your now 100 pages of garbled ranting has accomplished.

Sarama, do you really find my question to Davron so unreasonable? Are you not interested in why he should want to deflect interest from Christopher Hansard onto two characters of his own invention?

Or would you prefer to go back to your little chat about Mayan abdominal massage?

apprentice, to be honest, I really have no interest as to why, as you suggest, Davron might be deflecting interest from your guru. I am far more interested in what is in this for you exactly?

[Neuromuscular Therapist]

Sarama,

I have just started a new thread on Maya Abdominal Massage and have posted a reply there.

[mahakala]

Davron has made comments about Jeff Bowe, calling him flying saucer man, and refused to back up his allegations. It is of interest because Jeff Bowe is going to quite ridiculous lengths to expose as a fraud a man he claims to never had anything to do with. Going after apprentice as having a guru relationship with Hansard is also unfair. Apprentices worked at Eden while they were learning what Hansard called dur bon medicine. Nothing unusual about that. Apprentice has also stated clearly that he believes Bowes political ranting is diminishing the impact of the real harm done by Hansard and making it all look like a political and possibly personal squabble. Thus Bowe and his motivation is of interest.

[apprentice]

Returning to the subject of this thread, my position has always remained the same. I recommend that people with experience of abuse by Christopher Hansard take their complaints to the police and to ‘Witness against abuse’.

'Witness against abuse' works to support and seek justice for people abused within a therapeutic or medical relationship.

‘Witness against abuse’ understands that people so abused need more than ‘agony aunt’ psychology to help them recover from the betrayal of trust that they have experienced.

http://www.witnessagainstabuse.org.uk/

You can email them or call the helpline on 08454 500 300.


If you would like to report your experience to the police please contact the ‘Sapphire Unit’ on +44 20 8246 0128.

If you just feel cheated or conned by Christopher Hansard please take your complaint to the trading standards office for Victoria.

If you would like to read some sincere and authentic voices sharing their real experience of Christopher Hansard please go to:

http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,25113,page=1

Sarama and Davron, thanks for all the good work keeping this thread active. All the best stuff happens in the first couple of pages.

Davron, I could tell you stories that would make your toes curl.

[mahakala]

Davron, I could tell you stories that would make your toes curl.

People keep saying that, dramatically referencing what is not spoken about. How about actually telling the stories somewhere, where other people can read them, and actually begin to believe that the Hansard story isn't just one of hurt feelings and inflated expectations.

[Sarama]

People keep saying that, dramatically referencing what is not spoken about. How about actually telling the stories somewhere, where other people can read them, and actually begin to believe that the Hansard story isn't just one of hurt feelings and inflated expectations.

For the simple reason they already have not only made numerous dramatic references in the form of 100 pages on RR, and have indeed spoken at long length about their hurt feelings and inflated expectations as you offered.
Thankfully the police and local authorities do not make arrests based on these alone. Furthermore, the press is disinterested for the same reasons.

Therefore I beg to differ with apprentice's sentiments proposing that -
"If you would like to read some sincere and authentic voices sharing their real experience of Christopher Hansard please go to: RR"

The number of false names seem to equal that of the number of false testimonies given therein. If the voices were indeed sincere and authentic they would be offering them directly to the authorities and to organisations such as Witness period, and no one would be taking the opportunity to boost their rankings, popularity, and endorse themselves.

I'm not sure anything further needs to be said mahakala, they have already cried rape have they not?

I see today that a "dr thomas" and myself seem to be in some agreement, in that the onus is up to those who are making the accusations to prove their statements. This is not "going after" apprentice as you suggest mahakala, it is a fact. No, it may not be fair, but it is the law in the U.K.

I really do not understand what all the fuss is about Bowes mahakala, one would think he would be embraced by the rest as they seem to share an enemy, or is this a members only cult club?

Sarama

[davron]

Apprentice,

In the late 90s I spent a lot of time doing noting due to a car accident. My then workshop was two doors down from a used book shop. I used to go and browse the stock, they had stacks of books and magazines about flying saucers, Jeff Bowe was listed and an English contibutor. I looked on the internet and using web spider I found a quote about Jeff Bowe and flying saucers before I made my comment.

I have seen false Gurus in action and I would never defend them, here they send children into gunfire for no other reason than their own personal fame and desire for money.

I have never defended the 'Pizza Guru' and I notice that you dont mind that term. I call him that because he sells instant enlightenment and like all home delivery pizza it arrives late, is cold and tastes awful.

Rick Ross is mob rule, voices of reason have been drowned, I checked Rick Ross before I wrote this and Mr Thomas is correct. Screaming something must be done, is not the same as doing something.

We have lots of screamers here those for and against violence, those for and against war, those for and against peace. They all scream while the victims on both sides suffer.

I will not do your case work for you but if you examine his staments about respected leaders in the Buddhist faith and then do a little digging you will find his statments are not well researched, but they are repeated a lot. Did he also not say the the abuse issues were not of any concern any longer. Tell that to the victims.. and watch the humiliation and rage on their faces.

You will win your case if you apply cold reason and logic.

Revenge is a dish best served cold.

Davron