Novella on Alzheimer's and Diet.

[bindeweede]

I am not a scientist or medic, but I like the way he writes and what he writes. Not that that is of any significance.

http://www.theness.com/neurologicabl...2229#more-2229

[Tony Williams]

Issues of diet and health in general seem clouded in confusion, with no clear links unless a nutritional deficiency of some kind is present.

Having said that, there was an interesting article in the New Scientist recently concerning food intake in general. We have read for a long time that rats fed on a low-calorie diet live longer than others, and some people have been reducing their calorific intake accordingly. Some more recent research on animals paints a different picture, in that it isn't the calories which matter but the protein intake: too much protein shortens life. Furthermore, a link was observed in rats between protein intake and cancer. Two groups of rats were fed different diets, one 20% protein and the other 5% protein. They were also all given a powerful carcinogenic. All of the rats on the 20% diet contracted cancer, none of the ones on the 5% diet did. Now this is, of course, only one experiment which needs validating and might not apply to humans even it's real in rats. But it's interesting, is it not?

[smudge]

Issues of diet and health in general seem clouded in confusion, with no clear links unless a nutritional deficiency of some kind is present.

Having said that, there was an interesting article in the New Scientist recently concerning food intake in general. We have read for a long time that rats fed on a low-calorie diet live longer than others, and some people have been reducing their calorific intake accordingly. Some more recent research on animals paints a different picture, in that it isn't the calories which matter but the protein intake: too much protein shortens life. Furthermore, a link was observed in rats between protein intake and cancer. Two groups of rats were fed different diets, one 20% protein and the other 5% protein. They were also all given a powerful carcinogenic. All of the rats on the 20% diet contracted cancer, none of the ones on the 5% diet did. Now this is, of course, only one experiment which needs validating and might not apply to humans even it's real in rats. But it's interesting, is it not?

Very!
I think I'm correct in saying that a literally 'close to starvation' diet was shown to prolong life in rats (and other animals), somewhat counter intuitive! There was a Horizon programme about it a year or so ago. A couple were trying to show it worked in humans and living on minimum food, permanently hungry. A tough task. Wonder if it would be worth the pain?

[Pebble]

Rats are wonderful, for nearly every condition one can create a rat model that will improve in response to almost every intervention. If only one could, as in rat studies, choose one's model, perform unblinded studies in small numbers and publish only positive results in humans then, all diseases would be eminently treatable.

First if something happens 100% in one group and 0% in the other - then you know the author is a used sales car man. Secondly all uncontrolled work on starvation diets (all of history and much of the third world to date) shows that it is associated with a shorter life span. Agreed that there may be other factros at work here (intermittent famine, infectious diseases etc), but the bulk of the observational evidence suggests that having some reserve (fat) prolongs survival. Finally, you can't do double blind randomised controlled trials on diets - so all evidence will be tainted. So the least that could be considered as useful is longterm randomised controlled trial of well matched populations each of whom is convinced that their particular diet is life prolonging, followed for many years with matched rates of diet breech and drop outs. I won't hold my breath.

[smudge]

Secondly all uncontrolled work on starvation diets (all of history and much of the third world to date) shows that it is associated with a shorter life span. Agreed that there may be other factros at work here (intermittent famine, infectious diseases etc), but the bulk of the observational evidence suggests that having some reserve (fat) prolongs survival.

If I remember correctly the implication of the study was; very low quantity + low quality food = very early death. High quantity + low quality = early death. Very low quantity + high quality = extended lifespan.
I'm in no position to judge the accuracy of the study. Interesting though.

[DrS]

So what counts as "high quality food"? Is this in a nutritional sense (and if so, what foods are these?) or some other sense, like cultivation?

[smudge]

Just had a look on the beeb Horizon website, annoyingly I can't find the episode and they have stopped updating it.
As I remember (and my memory may be faulty!), a couple were on a very restricted (in terms of calories) diet, close to starvation. So, the food they did eat was as highly nutrient dense as possible (no idea what). The idea was to repeat in humans what had (apparently) be shown in animal (rat only I think) trials. Counter intuitive, but apparently backed up by 'some' trials at least. May be total rubbish. Interesting though.

[smudge]

Found this link which I think might relate to the area of research discussed on the Horizon show I've been struggling to remember!

http://www.ncl.ac.uk/press.office/pr...an-extend-life

[Pebble]

Here is a recent review of the possible impact of diet and aging, as a warning none of this has been shown to be of any relevance in properly conducted human trials.


http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/full/29/41/12795

[DrS]

fruits, nuts, vegetables, and spices, or even reduced caloric intake

so doesn't this back up the general advice to eat natural foods, especially fruit and vegetables, but generally foods low in fat and calorific content?

[Tony Williams]

so doesn't this back up the general advice to eat natural foods, especially fruit and vegetables, but generally foods low in fat and calorific content?

That's usually the case - but it may turn out that the diet should be low in protein too.

[Admin]

With regards to the OP. I have noticed for quite a while now that people pushing alternative medical practises always weave their claims inside anecdotal stories - they usually read like fairy stories.

There's always the equivalent of the damsel in distress, the dragon, and the hero who saves the day.

It's put across as someone who is hopelessly ill, the medical establishment either can't do anything or they make it worse, and then there's the alt. medicine (or practitioner) who applies their magic and makes everything right again.

To me, such stories look obviously false yet this technique seems to work. So for me it's not so much a matter of whether such stories are true or not (I've seen very similar ones regarding 'autism cures') but why it is they have such persuasive power.

It seems that many people can be persuaded of just about anything as long as the story in which the claim is enshrined is good.