Genisis of the Afterlife

[DrS]

I agree TW. I was just thinking last night about Lord Muck's question of what nonlinguistic behaviour there might be to indicate awareness of his mortality, and thought there's quite a lot, really. What about making a Will? Buying a burial plot? Taking out funeral insurance? Funeral planning?

If one could find any such planning in the non-human animal world, we'd be well on the way to finding awareness of mortality. The one that springs to mind, but I don't know if it's an old wives' tale, is elephants going off to die in a particular place.

[smudge]

I recall reading various reports of great ape behaviour which indicate deceitfulness (usually to find a way of keeping a choice piece of food for themselves). I have also read of examples of altruistic behaviour (helping others to get to food when there is no prospect of immediate return - and even helping their tame humans to obtain something which is out of reach).

Both of these suggest that apes are aware of other apes and even people as being individuals like themselves, can put themselves in their minds and work out what they might want, and respond accordingly.

While I agree that it isn't possible to be certain, such an awareness of others does indicate that when they observe that all apes older than themselves grow old and die, then they may also understand that it will happen to them.

I agree.
As I said in post 18 it has been shown that certain animals do have a sense of 'self'. It is the extent of this consciousness that is in question.

If one could find any such planning in the non-human animal world, we'd be well on the way to finding awareness of mortality. The one that springs to mind, but I don't know if it's an old wives' tale, is elephants going off to die in a particular place.

I'm pretty sure the 'elephant graveyard' thing is true. But (I think) it is still unproven as to the motivation. Like bird migration and hoarding squirrels, there may be other factors here.
That said, it does seem that there is a questionable assumption often made that planning in humans is down to superior intellect, in 'animals' it is down to instinct!

I'm sure there is much work going on in this area of animal consciousness and psychology. An area I'd be really keen to explore further.

[DrS]

That said, it does seem that there is a questionable assumption often made that planning in humans is down to superior intellect, in 'animals' it is down to instinct!

Super way of putting it.

[Rose]

Interesting thread.

No proof but have had the experience of a couple of dogs on their way out and really think they were aware of what was happening.

As for the afterlife. I’ve given it a lot of thought in the past and asked many questions on forums etc. It amazes me what people believe about meeting people they knew and loved. I have even lied about my beliefs on the topic in order to comfort someone in serious distress. I have been meditating for quite a few years and I have come to believe that whatever we are and whatever we believe, we create it!

People explore ideas, religion, the occult, mediumship, spirituality etc. and settle on a rung of the ladder that most interests them and then develop it all out of proportion. I’ve been there. But I had a small voice in my head telling me that there was more and to keep going. Mine was a personal journey out of the darkness of child abuse and ignorance into the light of awareness and insight.

With meditation there is a clarity, an emptiness, an emptiness where everything is nothing and nothing is everything. There is a connection with everything, a wholeness that brings everything full circle. We are the creators, and we each create and recreate the world we live in and those worlds overlap creating this world and this planet. We are all in need of a mental tidy.

A belief in God and the afterlife hasn’t stopped us from killing each other. Maybe the truth, no matter how hard it may be to swallow, will.