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Thread: The end of the world

  1. #1

    The end of the world

    But not in 2012.

    Could be 2013

    National power grids could overheat and air travel severely disrupted while electronic items, navigation devices and major satellites could stop working after the Sun reaches its maximum power in a few years.
    Senior space agency scientists believe the Earth will be hit with unprecedented levels of magnetic energy from solar flares after the Sun wakes “from a deep slumber” sometime around 2013, The Daily Telegraph can disclose.
    or 2014

    Prof Nicholas Boyle claims that events of the fateful year will decide whether the world enjoys peace and prosperity over the coming decades or suffers war and poverty.
    He believes financial turmoil could be the trigger for the crisis, and that the reactions of American leaders will be crucial to its outcome. He also thinks new global organisations will be key to securing stability rather than nation-states.
    Or maybe in 100 years time

    Tell your great-great-grandkids not to make any big vacation plans.

    The human race will be extinct in 100 years, a top scientist in Australia credited with helping wipe out smallpox believes.

    Humans devouring natural resources and population numbers exploding daily have made microbiology professor Frank Fenner a pessimist.

    "We're going to become extinct," Fenner, 95, told The Australian newspaper. "Whatever we do now is too late."

    The UN says the world's population will reach 6.9 billion by the end of 2010. And with no real action toward cleaning up the environment, Fenner says the race simply can't survive.

  2. #2

    Re: The end of the world

    So let's see now...we have growing overpopulation and associated miseries like food and water shortages, plus the threat of devastating climate change, plus massive solar flares in prospect, the constant threat of lethal pandemics, Yellowstone waiting to blow and no doubt the odd giant asteroid heading our way. Must be worth opening a book on - what's going to get us first?

  3. #3

    Re: The end of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Williams View Post
    So let's see now...we have growing overpopulation and associated miseries like food and water shortages, plus the threat of devastating climate change, plus massive solar flares in prospect, the constant threat of lethal pandemics, Yellowstone waiting to blow and no doubt the odd giant asteroid heading our way. Must be worth opening a book on - what's going to get us first?
    The global warming of world is increasing everyday because of no control on pollution. The trees are decreases and new industries are established. It also effects the ozone layer of the earth. The effect can be seen easily as shortage of water in the world.

  4. #4

    Re: The end of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by ascon View Post
    The global warming of world is increasing everyday because of no control on pollution. The trees are decreases and new industries are established. It also effects the ozone layer of the earth. The effect can be seen easily as shortage of water in the world.
    Really - where's it going to go? The quantity of water on earth now is the same as when the planet was formed and that's not going to change in the foreseeable future. The western world could lose its current sources of potable water if the climate changed drastically, but technology already exists to desalinate sea-water, and we aren't going to run out of that. Yes, most desalinated water is very expensive at present, but on a sufficiently large scale even present-day technology can produce water economically and, necessity being the mother of invention, we'd could doubtless expect major advances very quickly. Climate change may well have some nasty effects on our lives, but I can't see us dying of thirst or our industry grinding to a halt through lack of water.

  5. #5

    Re: The end of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by brianp View Post
    Really - where's it going to go? The quantity of water on earth now is the same as when the planet was formed and that's not going to change in the foreseeable future.
    No, but it's fresh water that we need. There are many parts of the world in which the demand for water is already exceeding supply, with the result that rivers and lakes are drying up and water tables are falling. And we're faced with ever-increasing demand due partly to the growing global population and partly to the long-term rise in living standards, which brings with it far higher per-capita fresh water usage (both directly and indirectly).

    The western world could lose its current sources of potable water if the climate changed drastically, but technology already exists to desalinate sea-water, and we aren't going to run out of that. Yes, most desalinated water is very expensive at present, but on a sufficiently large scale even present-day technology can produce water economically and, necessity being the mother of invention, we'd could doubtless expect major advances very quickly. Climate change may well have some nasty effects on our lives, but I can't see us dying of thirst or our industry grinding to a halt through lack of water.
    Desalinated water is always going to be a lot more expensive than simply using available fresh water (with knock-on consequences for agriculture and industry, the major water-users), and it has the problem of what to do with the vast quantities of mineral salts left over. You can't just dump it back into the sea on a large-scale basis, that would begin to change the chemical composition of the oceans with unpredictable but almost certainly negative effects.

  6. #6

    Re: The end of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Williams View Post
    Desalinated water is always going to be a lot more expensive than simply using available fresh water (with knock-on consequences for agriculture and industry, the major water-users), and it has the problem of what to do with the vast quantities of mineral salts left over. You can't just dump it back into the sea on a large-scale basis, that would begin to change the chemical composition of the oceans with unpredictable but almost certainly negative effects.
    But remember, the thread is about the end of the world, and here we are talking of water shortage as a potential cause of the "end of the world". Of, course desalinated water is going to be more expensive, and, of course, it's use will bring problems in it's wake, but large-scale desalination is doable - and, given the necessity, it would be done! The "end of the world" will not be brought about by water shortage.

    On the question of cost of desalinated water, it isn't as bad as many think. Even with today's technology, the cost can be as low as 50p per cubic meter, and given that the average European uses about 700 cubic meters per year, that's not a huge sum. Yes it would seriously affect industry and agriculture too but it's not an insoluble problem, and the point is that, even at today's costs, the loss of traditional water sources is not going to end the world or bring western civilization to a halt. And, of course, we can confidently expect that the cost of desalination will fall considerably as technology improves as it inevitably will.

  7. #7

    Re: The end of the world

    Well, it depends what you mean by "the end of the world". Judging by the examples given in the first post this actually means, at worst, the end of humanity (not very likely), or more commonly, the end of our current civilisation (a lot more possible).

    Shortage of fresh water alone won't achieve either outcome, but it could well make a significant contribution to bringing down our civilisation, in conjunction with climate change and growing pressures on resources as the population continues to rise. It has been suggested as a likely cause of future wars - and don't forget that not all countries have access to the oceans for desalination.

  8. #8
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    Re: The end of the world

    I have used my psychic powers and I confidentally predict that the world will end.

  9. #9

    Re: The end of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Croydon Bob View Post
    I have used my psychic powers and I confidentally predict that the world will end.
    Worse than that - the universe will end. Eventually, after unknown billions of years.

    Deeply depressing that, makes you wonder what the point is of getting up in the morning.

  10. #10

    Re: The end of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Williams View Post
    No, but it's fresh water that we need. There are many parts of the world in which the demand for water is already exceeding supply, with the result that rivers and lakes are drying up and water tables are falling. And we're faced with ever-increasing demand due partly to the growing global population and partly to the long-term rise in living standards, which brings with it far higher per-capita fresh water usage (both directly and indirectly).


    Desalinated water is always going to be a lot more expensive than simply using available fresh water (with knock-on consequences for agriculture and industry, the major water-users), and it has the problem of what to do with the vast quantities of mineral salts left over. You can't just dump it back into the sea on a large-scale basis, that would begin to change the chemical composition of the oceans with unpredictable but almost certainly negative effects.
    This surprises me. All the fresh water in the world is ultimately desalinated sea water it's just been desalinated by "natural" means. It also, ultimately, ends up back in the sea. If we desalinate a bit more using the same method (evaporation/condensation) I don't see why that would cause a problem.

  11. #11

    Re: The end of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by chaggle View Post
    This surprises me. All the fresh water in the world is ultimately desalinated sea water it's just been desalinated by "natural" means. It also, ultimately, ends up back in the sea. If we desalinate a bit more using the same method (evaporation/condensation) I don't see why that would cause a problem.
    It's been naturally desalinated from the entire surface of the oceans and seas, instead of it happening over a limited area next to desalination plants. In any case, if we keep using more fresh water (as we will, on present trends) and desalinate more to obtain it, then a greater percentage of sea water will be desalinated, hence what's left will be saltier.

  12. #12

    Re: The end of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Williams View Post
    In any case, if we keep using more fresh water (as we will, on present trends) and desalinate more to obtain it, then a greater percentage of sea water will be desalinated, hence what's left will be saltier.
    You forget that almost all the water we "use" is returned to the ocean as waste.

    If, though climate change, the natural water cycle is disrupted in our part of the globe and we replaced it with desalination plants, there would be no overall increase in the amount of water desalinated, no change in the amount of waste water returned to the ocean, and absolutely no change in the salinity of the ocean.

    Yes we'd have to be careful to dump the desalination waste products (salt) in deep water well away from the coast so as not to change the local salinity and endanger wildlife, but that's just common sense.

  13. #13

    Re: The end of the world

    DesalinationWikipedia reference-link

    The concentrated seawater has the potential to harm ecosystems, especially marine environments in regions with low turbidity and high evaporation that already have elevated salinity. Examples of such locations are the Persian Gulf, the Red Sea and, in particular, coral lagoons of atolls and other tropical islands around the world[citation needed]. Because the brine is denser than the surrounding sea water due to the higher solute concentration, discharge into water bodies means that the ecosystems on the bed of the water body are most at risk because the brine sinks and remains there long enough to damage the ecosystems. Careful re-introduction can minimize this problem[citation needed]. For example, for the desalination plant and ocean outlet structures to be built in Sydney from late 2007, the water authority states that the ocean outlets will be placed in locations at the seabed that will maximize the dispersal of the concentrated seawater, such that it will be indistinguishable from normal seawater between 50 meters and 75 meters from the outlet points. Sydney is fortunate to have typical oceanographic conditions off the coast that allow for such rapid dilution of the concentrated byproduct, thereby minimizing harm to the environment.
    My bold... Looks like you've got to be a bit careful but not an insurmountable problem.

  14. #14

    Re: The end of the world

    As to cost, it looks as if the cost of desalinationWikipedia reference-link is about $0.50 per m3

    Israel is now desalinating water at a cost of US$0.53 per cubic meter.[18] Singapore is desalinating water for US$0.49 per cubic meter.[19] Many large coastal cities in developed countries are considering the feasibility of seawater desalination, due to its cost effectiveness compared with other water supply options, which can include mandatory installation of rainwater tanks or stormwater harvesting infrastructure
    We buy our water at around 2€ per metre.

    Incidentally while finding out the price of water in Spain I found this interesting article

    Dowsing (finding water by holding a piece of forked wood) is as accurate as anything devised by modern science (it has an 80 per cent success rate) and a good dowser can also estimate the water’s yield and purity to within a 10 or 20 per cent accuracy. Before buying land without a water supply, engage an experienced dowser with a successful track record to check it. Although rare, some people in remote areas have spent a fortune ensuring a reliable, year-round water supply, which may need to be piped from many kilometres away.

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