New word thread.

[skbuncks]

...Do you think it's reasonable to decide they are related, camp and campaign, foppotee and foppery?...

camp (1) W.Gmc. *kampo-z, an early loan from L. campus "open field, level space" (cf. Fr. champ; see campus), especially "open space for military exercise." Originally borrowed as O.E. camp "contest," this was obsolete by mid-15c. Meaning "place where an army lodges temporarily" is a later reborrowing (1520s), from Fr. camp, from It. campo, from the same L. source. Transferred to non-military senses 1550s. Meaning "body of adherents of a doctrine or cause" is 1871. The verb meaning "to encamp" is from 1540s. Camp-follower first attested 1810. Camp-meeting is from 1809, originally usually in reference to Methodists.

encamp 1560s, from en- "make, put in" + camp. Related: Encamped; encampment.

campaign 1640s, "operation of an army in the field," from Fr. campagne "campaign," lit. "open country," from O.Fr. champagne "open country" (suited to military maneuvers), from L.L. campania "level country" (cf. It. campagna, Sp. campaña, Port. campanha), from L. campus "a field" (see campus). Old armies spent winters in quarters and took to the "open field" to seek battle in summer. Extension of meaning from military to political is Amer.Eng. 1809. The verb is first attested 1701. Related: Campaigned; campaigning.

So, yes. They are related.

skb

[Graham Lappin]

But should it be anonymize (Lord Muck) or anonymise (Mr. Lappin)?

I am in the United States and they use "zee".

This could spark off another whole new debate on lexiconization .... isation

[polomint38]

camp (1) W.Gmc. *kampo-z, an early loan from L. campus "open field, level space" (cf. Fr. champ; see campus), especially "open space for military exercise." Originally borrowed as O.E. camp "contest," this was obsolete by mid-15c. Meaning "place where an army lodges temporarily" is a later reborrowing (1520s), from Fr. camp, from It. campo, from the same L. source. Transferred to non-military senses 1550s. Meaning "body of adherents of a doctrine or cause" is 1871. The verb meaning "to encamp" is from 1540s. Camp-follower first attested 1810. Camp-meeting is from 1809, originally usually in reference to Methodists.

encamp 1560s, from en- "make, put in" + camp. Related: Encamped; encampment.

campaign 1640s, "operation of an army in the field," from Fr. campagne "campaign," lit. "open country," from O.Fr. champagne "open country" (suited to military maneuvers), from L.L. campania "level country" (cf. It. campagna, Sp. campaña, Port. campanha), from L. campus "a field" (see campus). Old armies spent winters in quarters and took to the "open field" to seek battle in summer. Extension of meaning from military to political is Amer.Eng. 1809. The verb is first attested 1701. Related: Campaigned; campaigning.

So, yes. They are related.

skb

Where does camp change into meaning a geezer being effeminate, or generally acting in a dramatical way.

I am in the United States and they use "zee".

This could spark off another whole new debate on lexiconization .... isation

Ignore Americans and their way of doing things.

[skbuncks]

Where does camp change into meaning a geezer being effeminate, or generally acting in a dramatical way...

camp (2) "tasteless," 1909, homosexual slang, perhaps from mid-17c. Fr. camper "to portray, pose" (as in se camper "put oneself in a bold, provocative pose"); popularized 1964 by Susan Sontag's essay "Notes on Camp." Campy is attested from 1959.

skb

[Floppit]

skbuncks:
Wordfinder Corporal.

Words are more fun than witches!

Thank you for the camp link too!

[skbuncks]

skbuncks:
Wordfinder Corporal.

Words are more fun than witches!

Thank you for the camp link too!

They burn better too...

Thanks to Matt for this one: Neutraceuticals (or nutraceuticals).

skb

[Lord Muck oGentry]

But should it be anonymize (Lord Muck) or anonymise (Mr. Lappin)?

OED gives -ize first for such words, with obvious exceptions such as exercise, excise, advertise and so on. I assume that Fowler, and later Onions, wearing their editorial hats, took the view that many such words found their way into English from ( or from conscious imitation of) Greek, and that -ise was a Frenchified affectation.

Mind you, against that, Gowers thought life would be a good deal simpler if we just used -ise throughout.

So you'll have a broad back to shelter behind, whichever you do!

[DrS]

That's my understanding too. -ize for words with Greek derivation, -ise for Latin.

[davidrodway]

I am in the United States and they use "zee".

This could spark off another whole new debate on lexiconization .... isation

You mean "zed"

[davidrodway]

I offer a pair of favourite useful words, both referring to the lining of canal and river banks with boards of timber or steel to prevent them from collapsing: 'campshedding' and 'campshotting' (they appear to be interchangeable, both deriving from Dutch I believe). I use them to test dictionaries!

Another one I rather like is "frap" as in "frapping your halyards"; which means securing the ropes used to pull sails up a mast, or flags up a flagpole, so that they don't keep beating against the mast in a wind. So when you walk past sailing boats and hear this characteristic rattling of wires against masts, you can say "Aha! They haven't frapped their halyards!" But don't spell it as "frapp" as (I have just discovered on checking) it has a rather rude meaning...

When I did some sailing the instructor put a elastic rope around them to stop them "Chattering". He called it a "chatterbungee", but that may have been his own word

[davidrodway]

whats the difference between procrastinate and prevaricate ? - dont be too long in answering please

[DrS]

"He prevaricated about procrastinating because he intended to act immediately".

Etymology:

prevaricate - praevaricari (deviate)
procrastinate - procrastinare (put off till tomorrow)

[Graham Lappin]

On the use of UK and US spelling, reading Bill Bryson's Journeys in English I found that many of the US spellings originate from the old English and it is the spelling in the UK that has changed. Color for example, was the original spelling and somehow a "U" got inserted on the Eastern side of the Atlantic.

One word I come across a lot on the East Coast of the US is "gotten": as in "I have gotten information from him". It sounded like some American distortion of English but it turns out gotten was in common use in Elizabethan England and it hangs on in the word "forgotten".

I do realise that this forum may well have a Professor Emeritus of linguistic history who will now correct me.

[Tony Williams]

On a similar note, I was once at a conference addressed by an American who was talking about new building projects at his university, and he kept mentioning a new "shop". This seemed completely out of context and was causing great puzzlement until someone in the audience said "Oh, you mean workshop!"

I was therefore amused later on to come across some WW1-era British documents in the PRO (as was) referring to the difficulty in manufacturing a new gun because there was no spare "shop" to assign the work to....

Evidently the popular English usage has changed here, too.

[polomint38]

On the use of UK and US spelling, reading Bill Bryson's Journeys in English I found that many of the US spellings originate from the old English and it is the spelling in the UK that has changed. Color for example, was the original spelling and somehow a "U" got inserted on the Eastern side of the Atlantic.

One word I come across a lot on the East Coast of the US is "gotten": as in "I have gotten information from him". It sounded like some American distortion of English but it turns out gotten was in common use in Elizabethan England and it hangs on in the word "forgotten".

I do realise that this forum may well have a Professor Emeritus of linguistic history who will now correct me.

On a similar note, I was once at a conference addressed by an American who was talking about new building projects at his university, and he kept mentioning a new "shop". This seemed completely out of context and was causing great puzzlement until someone in the audience said "Oh, you mean workshop!"

I was therefore amused later on to come across some WW1-era British documents in the PRO (as was) referring to the difficulty in manufacturing a new gun because there was no spare "shop" to assign the work to....

Evidently the popular English usage has changed here, too.

So you are both saying that although we assume that the Americans are the deviants, it is sometimes us who are the deviants.