Internet Defamation - How should I proceed

[alan67uk]

Hi,

I was contacted in January 2020 by a lawyer acting for a London Business that they will be suing me for defamation for a comment i supposedly left on a yahoo message board in February 2008. They apparently got a court order against Yahoo to reveal the identity of the poster in November 2009. They are claiming for me to pay their legal fees in full and damages of 10k GBP.

I don't dispute the comment was defamatory, but it was never posted by myself. Infact the first i heard about the business in question was in january 2010 when they wrote to me. I have corresponded to them several times stating that i did not leave the comment and had no recollection of the business.

In fact the account that this message was posted from has been dormant for 12 months for the period when the message was sent. The message was sent as a reposnse to a thread which again has now been archived since February 2008.

How do I defend this claim. They Defamation act clearly states that
- action should be brought within 12 months - apart from exceptional cases
- Yahoo have not been helpful in providing the IP address from which the comment was sent - so i can prove it was not from my computer. And it is now likely this information is no longer available as it has been almost 2 years since the comment was left

The claimant is stating that the burden of proof is on me in UK law to prove that i did not send this message.

Thoughts appreciated.

[Pebble]

Hi,

I was contacted in January 2020! ...
The claimant is stating that the burden of proof is on me in UK law to prove that i did not send this message.

Thoughts appreciated.

Need Legaleagle or JoK on this I think.

For what its worth, I think the issue is balance of probability rather than burden of proof. The have provided evidence that suggests you are the source - since the comment was submitted on your account. So the question arises who else could have had access to that account and are they more likely to have left the comment? If multiple people had access to the account, any one of whom might have left the comment, then the question would arise as to what responsibility you have for managing your own account. If not, then how did they get access? Had your identity stolen, or your account details - if there were other events to support this, then it should be OK. If none of the above - you are need evidence that the Yahoo system is unsafe e.g. cross talk between accounts, has been hacked into etc.

I would not rely on the necessity to act within 12 mo, since they did - just you didn't know it was happening because Yahoo was stalling.

[polomint38]

Childish correction

Hi,

I was contacted in January 2020

I will be contacted in 2020

Sorry Alan, don't have the knowledge to help

[DrS]

Childish correction



I will be contacted in 2020

Sorry Alan, don't have the knowledge to help

Hindsight is a wonderful thing .....

Sorry Alan, I don't have knowledge to help either, but good luck.

[alan67uk]

Sorry should have read:-

"I was contacted in January 2010 (i.e. last month) by a lawyer acting for a London Business that they will be suing me for defamation for a comment i supposedly left on a yahoo message board in February 2008. They apparently got a court order against Yahoo to reveal the identity of the poster in November 2009. They are claiming for me to pay their legal fees in full and damages of 10k GBP."

The intital defamation claim was made in February 2008 - i.e. 22 months from their first contact and 23 months from now.

Help still requested!!!

[alan67uk]

Need Legaleagle or JoK on this I think.

I would not rely on the necessity to act within 12 mo, since they did - just you didn't know it was happening because Yahoo was stalling.

NO they acted in November 2009 to get a court order from Yahoo. This was 21 months after fiurst publication. The thread only had about 6 responses and has not been active for 23 months now.

[Pebble]

NO they acted in November 2009 to get a court order from Yahoo. This was 21 months after fiurst publication. The thread only had about 6 responses and has not been active for 23 months now.

Correct, but they did not move immediately to getting a court order, so they should be able to show that they had made the appropriate requests to Yahoo within 1 year, and only took legal action as a last resort. The question then arises, why should you be liable for any costs incurred as a result of Yahoo's intransigence. So it seems surprising to move to sue you immediately without an offer to retract.

[Croydon Bob]

My advice would be:

Don't ever take or give legal advice on a forum.

[Pebble]

My advice would be:

Don't ever take or give legal advice on a forum.

There are better places, however, discussing the niceties of defamation seems strangely relevant - the issue has come up here more than once. So mabey this is something more people need to be vaguely familiar with.

[Legaleagle]

NO they acted in November 2009 to get a court order from Yahoo. This was 21 months after fiurst publication. The thread only had about 6 responses and has not been active for 23 months now.

The 12 month limitation period can only start when the claimant becomes aware of the libel. They may not have seen it on the day it was posted but some time afterwards.

Also, it could be that they applied for the Order against Yahoo some months before but it was only granted in November 2009. They can't start proceedings until they know who to proceded against.

- Yahoo have not been helpful in providing the IP address from which the comment was sent - so i can prove it was not from my computer. And it is now likely this information is no longer available as it has been almost 2 years since the comment was left

Do you mean you can prove or cannot prove that the message was sent from your computer? I don't see how this matters really, as presumably you could have logged on to your account from any computer, it's the access to the account which proves you left the message, not what computer was used.

If they have written confirmation from Yahoo that it was your account that was used to post the message, I can't see how a denial that it was you, without some further corroboration, is going to sway the Court from think that it was you who posted it.

[Rexxfield]

G'day Alan,

I am not sure about UK law, but I expect you would be able to demand a copy of the IP address log records that Yahoo sent to the solicitor. If you get a hold of it, send it to me and I'll try and help if I can (pro-bono). I do this for a living (but usually for the plaintiffs).

As LegalEagle said, if it was posted from your Yahoo user account, you have a tougher battle. Even if you prove that it wasn't you, you will prove thet you are silly for not logging off a shared computer or used your dogs name as a password.

In the mean time, you should do the following:

(1) Go through all the emails you sent for a couple of hours (or day if not many) either side of the alleged posting.
(2) Contact the people that you sent the messages to and ask them to save the messages, and to print copies COMPLETE WITH HEADER INFORMATION. The header info will show the IP addy you were connected to at the time. Granted, if you have a notebook you could go to the library. Either way, by retracing your steps for the day you might get a feel for where you were. If you were away from the offending IP addy, those records will be a good alibi.
(3) Do you have wifi? Is it password protected? If not, anyone within 50 meters could have used your IP. That is a plausible defense.

There are lots of other possible scenarios, get the IP logs and contact me through www.rexxfield.com

Also, print a copy of my tips to demonstrate that your ready defense was not preconceived

If they don't give you the IP logs, contact your ISP and ask exactly what IP address was allocated to you at the date and time in question. Be sure to obtain the time zone they use also, and make sure u have correct time/zone given by Yahoo.

Regards,
Michael Roberts
Snr Investigator & Litigation Support Specialist
www.rexxfield.com

[alan67uk]

[QUOTE=Rexxfield;83330]

Hi Rexxfield thanks for the offer. After several communications with the client, I had a short meeting with him yesterday, as I was in London on business.

They are still adamant that regardless of whether I did it or not, if it came from my account I am liable. As said before they are claiming £10,000 in damages and their legal bill to date is £8,000 (although £3,000 of this has been paid for by Yahoo during the court order that released my identity).

The solicitor they are using that is hounding me is charging them £450 per hour - hence the high legal cost to date.

I am certain I did not send this message. So I have today written to Yahoo UK demanding:-
- a copy of what they disclosed to the claimant,
- identification of the IP address that the message was sent from and
- the number of hits the message received.

So not sure how cooperative they will be. My concern is that since the message was sent 2 years ago now
- Yahoo will no longer have the IP address of the sender.

I have checked my e-mail account and there are no records of e-mails sent beyound a few months ago.

[Cuddles]

I don't see how this matters really, as presumably you could have logged on to your account from any computer, it's the access to the account which proves you left the message, not what computer was used.

I think this is actually likely to be the most important point. If it can be shown that the message was posted from a computer that alan67uk couldn't possibly have had access to, then it demonstrates that he did not post it. Depending on the details it could be difficult to prove conclusively, what with proxies and the like, but it seems worth looking into at least.

[skbuncks]

...it's the access to the account which proves you left the message, not what computer was used.

If they have written confirmation from Yahoo that it was your account that was used to post the message, I can't see how a denial that it was you, without some further corroboration, is going to sway the Court from think that it was you who posted it.

Where does the burden of proof lie here? Is it upto them to prove he posted the message or him to prove that he didn't? Afterall a message posted from his account is simply evidence that the message was posted from his account. It does not demonstrate who posted it. Its no rare event for accounts to be hijacked or hacked into.

skb

[Matt]

The burden of proof is of course to provide evidence that Alan Left tthe message.

However it is clear that such evidence - the use of Alan's logn credentials - has ben provided. It's not conclusive proof but in the absense of another explanation being provided the ball is in Alan's court.

Other explanations abound. Passwords may be shared unwisely, guessed, sniffed cracked or phished. Users may leave themselves logged in. Some of these still leave Alan culpable.

IANAL but as I understand it as this is a civil case Alan will have to do more than present reasonable doubt civil cases are decided on the balance of evidence. Seems to me that Alan should be presenting positive evidence rather than unsubstantiated suggestions of what might have happened.

Again IANAL but wouldn't it be wise to publish a retraction?