Creating Electronic Voice Phenomena through Ultrasound

[Harryprice]

The problem is that many people are unaware that their audio gear may act funny if fed with signals that it has not been designed for. The video demonstrates one aspect of this, and it does so in a reproducible, unambiguous way that leaves no space for interpreting the voices in the video to be of paranormal origin.

Ultrasound is not common in everyday environments and I doubt it is the cause of many, or even any, reports of EVP. A lot of EVP recordings I've looked at were clearly made with recorders incapable of 44 kHz sample rate (perhaps the early models you refer to below). You might want to try playing with lower frequency sounds using a recorder only capable of, say, 20 kHz rate.

For that matter, fearing that somebody may misinterpret presented facts is no valid criticism. And if you think there should be more information on how to create EVP by ambient noises, feel free to publish something on that.

There already is more info on ambient sound EVP - see here, for instance. I am not criticising your work as such, just pointing out how it is likely to be reinterpreted by believers.

I'm not so interested in ambient noise EVP since they are always ambigous. I'm more interested in explanations for the unambigous, so-called "Class A" EVP. I would love to get my hands on one of the old, discontinued digital recorders that EVP experts recommend, so I could check how easily they pick up radio signals. Unfortunately, those old recorders are so sought after by the EVP crowd that you cannot get one for a reasonable price. The most popular model which used to be retailed at $40 is nowadays sold on Ebay for $2000 upwards, no joke

Many 'class A' EVPs are almost certainly real human voices! The fact that someone claims nobody said anything or 'it couldn't have been a voice from the street outside' is just anecdote. Many people do not understand how voices are modified by the shape of rooms, distance and poor quality recorders to sound different! People should use multiple recorders at the same location to eliminate such possibilities.

I don't believe fraud is common in EVP. The circumstances of most recordings are so ambiguous that it isn't necessary. It is more self-deception than deliberate deception.

[Cuddles]

I put real in quotes for a reason. What I mean is simply that they were not deliberately faked. However, that does not mean they come from anything other ambient sounds. Having examined hundreds of supposedly real EVP recordings, I found a large number could be easilly accounted for by ambient sounds. It is also possible to deliberately reproduce EVPs in this way quite simply.

And have you bothered to ask anyone how they actually make them? Every EVP "researcher" I have had any interaction with uses software to digitally manipulate their recordings. Any software you download related to EVP will certainly be capable of doing more than just recording sound. Instead of just looking at things from the skeptics point of view after the fact, try looking at what EVP actually do.

If I came across a case where someone could PREDICT exactly what an EVP would say before the recording was made then the ultrasound method might be relevant. However, I haven't. Instead people make the EVP 'messages' fit into what they were expecting retrospectively, often using horribly contorted logic.

How would you know? Have you ever actually asked someone what they thought an EVP would say before they recorded it? Or do you simply look at what people present? How would you have any idea if they knew what it would say beforehand?

The method is difficult and could easily fail for any number of reasons related to the exact specification of the equipment used.

So? Lots of woo would be covered by that statement, yet people obviously still try it. Some of them do fail, others don't. Argument from incredulity is not a good argument.

I can't see any reason why anyone would go to such trouble when making 'real' EVPs (ie. not deliberately fraudulent but not from spirits or other entities either) is so simple. By using 'genuine' methods it also mean they can allow others to watch them at work without fear of detection.

Because EVP where you can guarantee everyone will hear exactly what you want them to hear will be far more convincing than simple pareidolia, even to the most hardcore believers. Of course, given that some of them actually admit to just tuning randomly into the radio and just claim it's the order of the words that is magic, getting them to believe stuff isn't exactly difficult. As for being watched at work, again I have to wonder if you've ever looked at what these people actually do. The majority sit at home making recordings, or wander around "haunted" places by themselves, and then post them around for other people to listen to. Why would they worry about being watched?

Your argument basically seems to boil down to "Some people might not find this the easiest or best way of doing things, therefore it can never happen, ever.". There's rarely anything new in the world. Given that we know this is possible, I would be willing to bet a large amount of money that someone, somewhere, has used it. No-one is pretending that this is a common practice, but it's something to bear in mind if we happen to come across EVP that is difficult to explain by more well know methods.

But my real fear is that 'believers' will start to argue that EVPs originate at ultrasound frequencies, starting yet another bizarre myth.

So even though we have here a technique that certainly could be used to make very convincing EVPs, we should just shut up about it because of some vague fear that people might find out? Aside from the fact that you have no idea if people are already using this anyway, you're simply trying to rely on security through obscurity which, as any cryptographer knows, is essentially the same as no security at all. Hiding from it instead of seeing how it works in order to maybe spot it in the future is just silly.

[Verklagekasper]

Many 'class A' EVPs are almost certainly real human voices! The fact that someone claims nobody said anything or 'it couldn't have been a voice from the street outside' is just anecdote. Many people do not understand how voices are modified by the shape of rooms, distance and poor quality recorders to sound different! People should use multiple recorders at the same location to eliminate such possibilities.

I don't believe fraud is common in EVP. The circumstances of most recordings are so ambiguous that it isn't necessary. It is more self-deception than deliberate deception.

Once again, I'm not talking about "most recordings" but the ones that cannot be explained away that easily. Try to explain something like this (check for the part when the couple records EVP and replays them):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSV983beEtA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MhoTNXReq4

All just ambient sounds and room acoustics, not fraud nor anything else? Plz...

[Harryprice]

And have you bothered to ask anyone how they actually make them? Every EVP "researcher" I have had any interaction with uses software to digitally manipulate their recordings. Any software you download related to EVP will certainly be capable of doing more than just recording sound. Instead of just looking at things from the skeptics point of view after the fact, try looking at what EVP actually do.

Yes I'm familiar with how people make EVP recordings, being in contact with many of them. If you read upthread, you will see that I mentioned how people regularly use noise removal and frequency filtering to 'enhance' their recordings.

How would you know? Have you ever actually asked someone what they thought an EVP would say before they recorded it? Or do you simply look at what people present? How would you have any idea if they knew what it would say beforehand?

I was asking you. Personally. I've never come across anyone making such a claim, despite examining hundreds of cases. Given the extravagent claims common in EVP I really doubt they would fail to mention it if it had happened.

So? Lots of woo would be covered by that statement, yet people obviously still try it. Some of them do fail, others don't. Argument from incredulity is not a good argument.

Yes someone might try it but since they get enough to satisfy themselves the conventional way, I doubt they'd bother.

Because EVP where you can guarantee everyone will hear exactly what you want them to hear will be far more convincing than simple pareidolia, even to the most hardcore believers. Of course, given that some of them actually admit to just tuning randomly into the radio and just claim it's the order of the words that is magic, getting them to believe stuff isn't exactly difficult. As for being watched at work, again I have to wonder if you've ever looked at what these people actually do. The majority sit at home making recordings, or wander around "haunted" places by themselves, and then post them around for other people to listen to. Why would they worry about being watched?

Again, I know how people make recordings and I've used the same methods myself experimentally. Different people hardly EVER all hear the same thing, even with 'class A' recordings, when they are not primed with what to expect. Unfortunately, it is normal for people to tell others what to expect and give the circumstances of the recording, both of which tend to cause convergence on a particular interpretation. They have a tendency to 'hear' what makes most sense in terms of the spirit theory, when a random collection of words could be just as likely to an unprimed subject who does not believe in spirits.

Your argument basically seems to boil down to "Some people might not find this the easiest or best way of doing things, therefore it can never happen, ever.". There's rarely anything new in the world. Given that we know this is possible, I would be willing to bet a large amount of money that someone, somewhere, has used it. No-one is pretending that this is a common practice, but it's something to bear in mind if we happen to come across EVP that is difficult to explain by more well know methods.

It is not a prediction but an observation of how these things actually happen. I've little doubt it will be tried in future but in the basis that 'spirits use ultrasound' rather than attempt at fraud!

So even though we have here a technique that certainly could be used to make very convincing EVPs, we should just shut up about it because of some vague fear that people might find out? Aside from the fact that you have no idea if people are already using this anyway, you're simply trying to rely on security through obscurity which, as any cryptographer knows, is essentially the same as no security at all. Hiding from it instead of seeing how it works in order to maybe spot it in the future is just silly.

The theory of using aliasing has always been there for anyone who was interested. I am merely predicting how these ideas will be hijacked by believers, based on observation. There's nothing anyone can do to stop such processes.

[Harryprice]

Once again, I'm not talking about "most recordings" but the ones that cannot be explained away that easily. Try to explain something like this (check for the part when the couple records EVP and replays them):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSV983beEtA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MhoTNXReq4

All just ambient sounds and room acoustics, not fraud nor anything else? Plz...

It is just such uncontrolled recordings, with an open mic in a non soundproofed uncontrolled area that I was describing above! They rely on anecdote - the 'bar was empty', 'there was no one in the street' etc rather than scientific control. It is not a question of such recordings being unexaplainable so much as unexplained. There are ALWAYS possible explanations in such cases that cannot be ruled out. Because of the way the recordings are made, they cannot be ruled out.

[Verklagekasper]

It is just such uncontrolled recordings, with an open mic in a non soundproofed uncontrolled area that I was describing above! They rely on anecdote - the 'bar was empty', 'there was no one in the street' etc rather than scientific control. It is not a question of such recordings being unexaplainable so much as unexplained. There are ALWAYS possible explanations in such cases that cannot be ruled out. Because of the way the recordings are made, they cannot be ruled out.

Would you please once stop putting words in my mouth? I did not say that these recordings would be unexplainable, just as I never said that ultrasound would be the preferred tool for faking EVP or that there would even be a considerable amount of faked EVP or whatever else you think I was implying.

This is now just about that you cannot eplain all EVP by ambient sounds.

The EVP captured in those clips are louder than the investigators' voices, but only audible on their recorders and not at all on the audio captured by the cameras. And there's a far better explanation for that than vague guesses about ambient sounds, uncontrolleld conditions, and anecdotes (like this was an anecdote anyway - you can see and hear yourself what's going on!):

The EVP couple shown in the clips are Debbie and Mark Constantino. They make a living out of recording EVP. The recorder model they're using appears to be the "Panasonic RR-DR60". This is the very most popular and now most expensive EVP recorder I mentioned before. This recorder is said to capture strange voices like none else (which is probably the reason why Panasonic discontinued it). Of course the audio of this tool sucks, it distorts any sound. But there are many recorders out there which suck just as bad at recording and still don't produce those voices. Audio experts have found out that this model is particularly prone to pick up radio signals because it's insufficiently shielded. So the most likely cause of those EVP would actually be radio signals, like from amateur radio or from taxis or any other earthly source of RF.

[Harryprice]

Would you please once stop putting words in my mouth? I did not say that these recordings would be unexplainable, just as I never said that ultrasound would be the preferred tool for faking EVP or that there would even be a considerable amount of faked EVP or whatever else you think I was implying.

I'm not putting words into your mouth, I'm expressing my own opinion. I have seen many such videos of EVP on ghost hunts and they serve only to demonstrate how these things happen in uncontrolled conditions (scientific controls, that is). Serious EVP researchers (there are a few) use highly controlled conditions, even including soundproof chambers and RF shielding (a biscuit tin padded with a cloth with the recorder wrapped inside can act as rough version of this). As far as I know they don't get unexplained sounds in these conditions. Ghost hunters have adopted EVP but they use it very casually, as part of a range of activities, and is difficult to take their results in any way seriously.

This is now just about that you cannot explain all EVP by ambient sounds. The EVP captured in those clips are louder than the investigators' voices, but only audible on their recorders and not at all on the audio captured by the cameras. And there's a far better explanation for that than vague guesses about ambient sounds, uncontrolleld conditions, and anecdotes (like this was an anecdote anyway - you can see and hear yourself what's going on!):

The EVP couple shown in the clips are Debbie and Mark Constantino. They make a living out of recording EVP. The recorder model they're using appears to be the "Panasonic RR-DR60". This is the very most popular and now most expensive EVP recorder I mentioned before. This recorder is said to capture strange voices like none else (which is probably the reason why Panasonic discontinued it). Of course the audio of this tool sucks, it distorts any sound. But there are many recorders out there which suck just as bad at recording and still don't produce those voices. Audio experts have found out that this model is particularly prone to pick up radio signals because it's insufficiently shielded. So the most likely cause of those EVP would actually be radio signals, like from amateur radio or from taxis or any other earthly source of RF.

Yes, obviously it is possible for certain recorders to pick up stray RF but, in my experience, this is rare as most modern equipment is properly shielded. Some older equipment was definitely more prone to RF and a greater percentage of early EVP recordings were probably down to this (see D J Ellis's 'Mediumship of the Tape Recorder', for instance). It is quite difficult to produce RF intrusion on modern sound recorders - I know I've tried! By far the majority of EVPs on ghost hunts are down to ambient noises and people forgetting they spoke in ridiculously uncontrolled investigations!

There is an interesting parallel between the Panasonic RR-DR60 and an EMF meter called the K2 which is very popular with ghost hunters. It has an unusual design in that you need to hold a key down continuously to get a reading - other models you switch on and they adapt to the ambient conditions after a few seconds. Some people use the K2 to apparently 'communicate' with ghosts by only holding down the key when they want a reading or an 'answer' to a question! Naturally, as with any EMF meter, the initial readings tend to be spurious as it settles down. So it is possible to get a 'reading' almost every time the key is pressed!

[Verklagekasper]

Yes, I've seen Ghost Hunters using the K2. They even admit that it goes off easily by cell phones or other electric equipment in range (though they don't say so openly on the show).
The latest toys seem to be the "Ghost Box", which is nothing but an AM/FM radio scanning channels up and down, and some box that maps EMF readings to words in a database and then speaks using a speech synthesizer. Seen on "Ghost Adventures" and "Paranormal State".

The desire to find meaning in random patterns seems to be as old as mankind.
(But at least they don't read in animal intestines anymore, I give them that )

[Harryprice]

The latest toys seem to be the "Ghost Box", which is nothing but an AM/FM radio scanning channels up and down, and some box that maps EMF readings to words in a database and then speaks using a speech synthesizer.

I've examined recordings from a ghost box and it certainly makes words, as you'd expect by putting together fragments of words. I was told what the recording was supposed to say but I didn't agree. The argument, of course, is that the box answers questions which random word fragments shouldn't do. However, our brains work by making sense out of what we hear, even if the sounds don't really make sense. My interpretation of the recording was pretty random, though honestly held, which didn't go down well.

Any chance of getting a copy of your ultrasound EVP recording? I'd like to see if I can detect that it is artificial. I've PMed you.

[Verklagekasper]

Any chance of getting a copy of your ultrasound EVP recording? I'd like to see if I can detect that it is artificial. I've PMed you.

Just mailed you. Oh and watch out, these versions don't have any audible sound at the beginning, so be careful when pushing the volume (though this likely makes them audible on your speakers, by clipping).

[Verklagekasper]

Oops, I think I misunderstood, you mean the recording, not the original file. Well, going to send that as well.