Hi Guys,
Grrr. Not able to post URLs. Google "Hydrocharger scam" and you should find the links I am referring to.
Hydrocharger a company in Bolton selling HHO systems and courses, something I have come to expect in the USA where it seems you can tell any old lie to sell your nonsense... But here in the UK we have better consumer protection laws, right?
Neil and Sam Prendergast are the founders of Hydrocharger, they are also the founders of "WaterMotive Ltd" and "Water4GasUK", two more UK based HHO scams, and “Water Fuel Expert“, an old USA based HHO scam.
Who should one report these charlatans to? They need putting out of business, preferably prosecuting.
http://www.hydrochargeme.com/
Last edited by Admin; 21st November 2009 at 12:18 PM. Reason: Link added
Trading StandardsOriginally Posted by Queequeg
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/
Sounds like they're in breach of the Unfair Consumer Practices Legislation.
If they're paying for advertising then the ASA may be able to help. Just having a website isn't enough but if they have a banner ad or printed advertising materials then the ASA can punish them if they contain lies.
I wish you good luck and plenty of patience.
Turns out Trading Standards have already told Hydrocharger to tone it down a bit, but Hydrocharger's website is still full of unprovable BS and nonsense, and their other sites are full of of the same old lies.
I have reported them all to Trading Standards, anyway.
It seems easy to say anything about anybody on the Internet. How can Sam and Neil be scammer's when they clearly offer a money back guarantee? How can anyone stay in business selling something that does not work if all they can then do is give the customers their money back. Something does not make sense in your argument against them. They would have gone under a long time ago!
Suggest you research HHO properly and try to understand the application, the technology is not new and based on research it seems it is successfully used by many people around the globe or are you suggesting they are all affiliated to Hydrocharger and tell lies. Most unlikely.
I personally know several people who successfully use HHO to improve fuel economy. Guess what. It works and has the potential to work well. The results depend on one variable to every vehicle. The driver! Surprise surprise.
Looks like I will be at least trying HHO soon as I have nothing to lose and loads to gain if it works especially with the never ending rises in fuel prices
HHO is not a main stream technology yet as it is not in the interests of big commercial organisations and oil companies I would suggest.
Just because it is not a main stream technology is not a valid reason to debunk things and call people scammers.
No I am not affiliated to Hydrocharger Ltd. Just giving considered rational and logical feedback
Mark Adams
From the Hydrocharger website: "In simple terms, a Hydrocharger system consists of one or more interconnected cells filled with water and electrolyte. When the engine is running, a cuurent passes though electrodes ineach cell; electrolysis takes place and Hydrogen is released which is chanelled directly into the engine via the air intake. This provides an extra fuel - and which burns with zero emissions. The Hydrogen also causes the primary fuel (petrol or diesel) to be burned more completely, resulting in a much cleaner exhaust form the engine."
Has this been tested? On the face of it, if you electrolyse water and then recombine it, you must lose energy overall. So is the trick in somehow causing the primary fuel 'to burn more completely'? Lots of stuff on it here.
Last edited by Harryprice; 18th November 2009 at 03:52 PM.
Hmmm let me think.... How could such a scam possibly work? Unless maybe the money back guarantee was fraudulent. What if they hoped that people would be too ashamed to claim it. what if people who tried to claim it got the run-around and told that they weren't doing it properly.
I knew a guy who worked for high street bank. One day he was asked to apply a £20 charge to a number of dormant accounts. The plan was that if anyone queried these charges they'd be lifted but people enough wouldn't bother to make the fraud worthwhile. That was when he handed in his notice.
The question on your lips should be since this cannot possibly work how can it not be a scam.
Yeah and on that basis Three card montey can'[t be a scam because it's operated by thousands of people round the world and they can't all be affiliated.
Forget the poultry savings from using less fuel. If you can prove this works then you can claim Randi's million
Bullshit.
You're a lying shill.
Last edited by Matt; 18th November 2009 at 04:29 PM.
I have studied this a lot. The trick is indeed electrolysing water combined with another electrolyte to give of a realtively small amount of HHO gas which is passed into the air intake. It is a hydrogen on demand fuel supplement NOT fuel replacement
It does indeed cause the primary fuel to burn more completely. Hydrogen has a BTU of 60,000 petrol and diesel about 19000 so hydrogen has three times the energy and burns thousands of times faster then petrol or diesel.
This will help completely burn the primary fuel, reducing heat loss to cylinders and increasing kinetic energy output as well as reducing emissions. Compression in the cylinders would be increased
Simply put the economy will come from less throttle being needed to go the same speed. Burn fuel more completely less emissions
Fuel science is complex we could go on for ever
Part of the effects of HHO will be due to the the proven effects of water injection, HHO being of the same constituents as water i.e. H2O water injection has been around for years and was used in turbo charged high performance motors in the 1970's
Water injection was used to increase HP - Saab Turbo 99 for example!
Not such nonsense after all methinks!
Mark, you write just like Sam Prendergast. The usual lies and bull.
HHO does not, and cannot work. It breaks the First Law of Thermodynamics as you well know Sam, er, Mark.
The link provided by Harryprice is a good one, here is another: http://www.jonstarbuck.co.uk/archives/658
Hydrocharger = scam
Last edited by Croydon Bob; 18th November 2009 at 04:22 PM. Reason: typpo
I should hope so, you are the Managing Director!
Pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo won't get you very far here I'm afraid.
LOL No I am not Sam :-) Just an interested potential customer who has taken time to research and read the bad feedback and the good!
I am an experienced heavy plant and machinery engineer who takes an active interest in all kinds of technology.
No doubt I will find out soon enough. I have the facilities for meanigful independant testing
I am not going to get into a slanging match, not my style. I have said all I am going to say until I know for sure
errrr what's a shill that someone so nicely called me?
I,ll keep you all posted but whats the point no one will believe me as I have been labelled a lying shill.
But you don't know about the the First Law of Thermodynamics?
Not very plausible Sam, must try harder.
I would be very interested in your results. I wonder if you will need to recharge your battery more frequently. I also wonder what effect it will have on engine life and whether it might increase wear on certain components. No such thing as a free lunch, as they say ...
Damn this is hilarious, my wife is really upset now. She was convinced she married a man , now because of you lot she is worried :-)) asking me if my name is Sam
Just go out and read all arguments for and against, think about things. The truth I have yet to find out and will ! don't really care what you lot think at least I will have the balls to try and no I will not lose my money!
First Law of Thermodynamics - I do know it has NOTHING to do with a fuel supplement which small quantities of HHO are being used as!
To generate enough to act as a fuel replacement would be be against the First Law of Thermodynamics
errrr google the term water injection high performance engines and read, you will see the basis for what we are talking about water injection works so why not HHO?
as i said, i will see soon enough!
Not sure that helps. For instance, in Wikipedia it says "In a piston engine, the initial injection of water cools the fuel-air mixture significantly, which increases its density and hence the amount of mixture that enters the cylinder. An additional effect comes later during combustion when the water absorbs large amounts of heat as it vaporizes, reducing peak temperature and resultant NOx formation, and reducing the amount of heat energy absorbed into the cylinder walls."
Injecting hydrogen won't cool the fuel-air mix. Nor will it absorb heat through vaporisation. This is more relevant. However, the fact that it can work in theory does not necessarily translate into practice in a mainstream commercial car. It might improve efficiency, as with any combustion engine, if it operates at a higher temperature (very broadly speaking). However, what effects this might have on a commercial car, who knows ...
Last edited by Harryprice; 18th November 2009 at 04:58 PM.
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