The Age of Excess...Interesting article?

**Dubious Dick** · 10th August 2009, 10:00 PM

Saw this piece in Guardian review section last Saturday and thought the last eight paras regarding excessiveness in religious belief of interest, in particular the idea that doubt actually produces more extreme belief behaviours..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009...-adam-phillips

**Mulder** · 11th August 2009, 10:05 AM

Written by a psychoanalyst and he quotes Freud! Oh dear, I feel skepticism pressing hard on me ...

**polomint38** · 11th August 2009, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by Mulder

Written by a psychoanalyst and he quotes Freud! Oh dear, I feel skepticism pressing hard on me ...

Leave Freud alone, he was great in "Just A Minute"

**Mulder** · 11th August 2009, 10:20 AM

Is the fact that the article is excessively long supposed to be ironic?

**Croydon Bob** · 11th August 2009, 10:40 AM

I can't say that I was particularly impressed with the article as a whole.

On the specific point that Dick picks up on, that doubt actually produces more extreme belief behaviours, I certainly have a few anecdotes that match that idea. Of course it applies more widely than just religion and woo beliefs. E.g. my acquaintance who is the most extreme anti-smoker every time he gives up but always starts smoking again. I'm sure that many of the loudest most evangelical religious types are not certain of their own beliefs at all, they are trying to convince themselves as much as anyone.

**polomint38** · 11th August 2009, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by Croydon Bob

I can't say that I was particularly impressed with the article as a whole.

On the specific point that Dick picks up on, that doubt actually produces more extreme belief behaviours, I certainly have a few anecdotes that match that idea. Of course it applies more widely than just religion and woo beliefs. E.g. my acquaintance who is the most extreme anti-smoker every time he gives up but always starts smoking again. I'm sure that many of the loudest most evangelical religious types are not certain of their own beliefs at all, they are trying to convince themselves as much as anyone.

So Bob you are very loud about all types of woo, does this mean you have doubts about it actually being woo and are trying to convince yourself as much as anyone else.

**Croydon Bob** · 11th August 2009, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by polomint38

So Bob you are very loud about all types of woo, does this mean you have doubts about it actually being woo and are trying to convince yourself as much as anyone else.

Well, I am psychic. With a 100% accurate track record on this forum. So what doubts are you suggesting I might have?

**chaggle** · 11th August 2009, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by Croydon Bob

On the specific point that Dick picks up on, that doubt actually produces more extreme belief behaviours, I certainly have a few anecdotes that match that idea. Of course it applies more widely than just religion and woo beliefs. E.g. my acquaintance who is the most extreme anti-smoker every time he gives up but always starts smoking again. I'm sure that many of the loudest most evangelical religious types are not certain of their own beliefs at all, they are trying to convince themselves as much as anyone.

Next time you get someone who mentions "bloody queers" or something, just say "Homophobes are only that way because they have doubts about their own sexuality".

Then run.....

**Croydon Bob** · 12th August 2009, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by chaggle

Next time you get someone who mentions "bloody queers" or something, just say "Homophobes are only that way because they have doubts about their own sexuality".

I don't know if there's any serious data on this but there's plenty of anecdotal stuff about fundy right-wingers in the US and neo-nazis in the UK being caught with their trousers down. I think we're referenced The Pub Landlord and his phrase "I was never confused!" on this forum before.

**Dubious Dick** · 12th August 2009, 10:29 AM

First a couple of apologies. Yes, the article is excessively long and rambling (in my defence I did point to the last eight paras as the pertinent bit). Yes, it is by a pschoanalyst and that should ring alarm bells. Yes, it mentions/quotes Freud and that does invite skepticism. Yes, I should have probably put this thread under Religion etc.

Still, as a couple of you have picked up, I was interested in the idea that the more doubt the greater the level of extremism in religious belief. It would be interesting to hear if there is any evidence basse for this.

It does seem to tally with the sexuality issue as well, as some of you have noted e.g. J.Edgar Hoover was publicly almost rabidly homophobic.