When I used to live in Bangladesh they had the saying "all Muslims are brothers", I think that this sense of unity is the biggest reason why western/"moderate" Muslims refuse to even acknowledge the terrible things done by other Muslims.
I was having discussion with somebody about the girl who/will be raped so that her execution can become legal, and this person simply ignored what I was saying and said that "in America lots of people are raped but they don't say anything but when it happens in a Muslim country people go crazy". I tried again to explain to him but he just spat out the 'west hates Islam' bull**it.
I also have a degree of personal experience because I used get quite angry over the Iraq war, because they were hurting my 'Muslim brothers'. It's also what motivates those 'home-grown terrorists'.
Soo..... what do you think? A little over the top?
There's certainly some truth to what you say but it isn't unique to Muslims. Perhaps more applicable than to some others, I couldn't really say.Originally Posted by newatheist
Lots of people have all sorts of "tribal" allegiances, religious, regional, football team, etc. Even if you turn away from a religion you still have a cultural connection. I think that it can also be important, as an atheist, not to overreact the other way and become too hostile to your former religion.
I still get angry about the treatment of Palestinians, not because the victims are fellow Muslims but because the oppressors are fellow Jews, and I wasn't even raised Jewish, my father had become an atheist before I was born. But I get disproportionately angry about any atrocity committed by Jews. I'm working on becoming a bit more rational about it. The Jewish Board of Deputies have a phrase for people like me: "Self Hating Jew", but as Jon Ronson says: "If only they knew how much I really love myself."
Are you no longer angry about the Iraq war? It still massively pisses me off that the UK has spent £billions killing innocent men, women and children in Iraq for no useful purpose.
You're right that this isn't unique to Islam but their tribal allegiance is a a lot stronger and a lot more common.
I don't think that a few angry words on a forum is overreacting, especially considering the things I've read about recently.
"I get disproportionately angry about any atrocity committed by Jews" - I think do the opposite, my dad doesn't like Jews much and I take a less harsh attitude towards Israelis.
Of course I sill care about the people of Iraq, but now I care that innocent people are being killed not because they just happen to be Muslim.
Don't be so harsh on yourself, even if you are a self hating Jew, remember the rest of hate you as well
I agree with everything that my fellow skeptics say (hang on, which thread am I on?)Don't be so harsh on yourself, even if you are a self hating Jew, remember the rest of hate you as well
Sorry I missed this story, do you have links
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1...e-execution%27Sorry I missed this story, do you have links
Really depressing story.A member of Iran's Basij militia has told Jerusalem Post how members of the force would rape virgins before their execution to make their death legal.
In Iran it is illegal to execute a young woman if she is a virgin, according to religious law.
To overcome that, members of the Basij would 'wed' prisoners before their execution and force them to have sex with their 'husbands'.
I try to be sympathetic towards theists but when they do things like this in the name of their DOG it makes it very hard.
It sounds a lot like the "my country right or wrong" attitude, which I think is a ridiculous way of thinking.When I used to live in Bangladesh they had the saying "all Muslims are brothers", I think that this sense of unity is the biggest reason why western/"moderate" Muslims refuse to even acknowledge the terrible things done by other Muslims.
I was having discussion with somebody about the girl who/will be raped so that her execution can become legal, and this person simply ignored what I was saying and said that "in America lots of people are raped but they don't say anything but when it happens in a Muslim country people go crazy". I tried again to explain to him but he just spat out the 'west hates Islam' bull**it.
I also have a degree of personal experience because I used get quite angry over the Iraq war, because they were hurting my 'Muslim brothers'. It's also what motivates those 'home-grown terrorists'.
Soo..... what do you think? A little over the top?
Surely most Muslims are disgusted by activities like your news item. People being what they are though, a lot will tar everyone in a different group with the same brush. A bit of vocal condemnation by more moderate Muslims would help to stop this. Keeping quiet can appear like agreement which of course it is not.
Yeah, I'm sure most Muslims are disgusted by such things but because the atrocities are being commited by Muslims they're not so quick to condemn these sorts of actions.
It's not like the 'Muslim community' is not capable of being vocal, they made sure we heard their views about Greet Wilders and Theo van Gogh.
If Israel were to leave the occupied territories and remove the illegal settlements it would go a long way to easing tensions in the area. It is a violation of international law and labels like anti Semitic or self hating Jew are just smoke and mirrors.
Nothing will be resolved in the middle east until peronal hatreds are removed from one's conscience.
There is nothing wrong with Islam, Christianity, Judaism etc as long as it is not practiced with hostility. Which is how the majority of people practice their faith.
I know this is not easy for people who have lost people in these wars, but until the hatred and blaming stops, the wars won't.
Bob, you seem to have a fairly good grip on your atheism when you say to newatheist to not go too far the other way. That's good advice.
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