Reply With QuoteProbably the same sort of meaningless label as "pure sugar" or "pure wool" ... what other sort is there? Anything else is, well, something else.
I have a friend who is seeing a hypnotherapist for severe eating disorder and other mental health issues. This chap advertises as a 'Pure Hypnotherapist' and 'Pure Hypnoanalyst' and I am having some difficulty finding anything out about this.
There is a site http://www.iaph.org/hypnotherapy.html but it doesn't seem to explain what distinguishes pure hypnotherapy from other kinds.
If it is all hunky dory, then I apologise for putting this thread in the pseudoscience section
Probably the same sort of meaningless label as "pure sugar" or "pure wool" ... what other sort is there? Anything else is, well, something else.
Be skeptical of the things you believe are false, but be very skeptical of the things you believe are true.
Odd question, given that it is answered on the page you linked to.
I'd better have another look then!Originally Posted by Nukapai
I mean, ok, it still seems a little opaque to someone (like me) who doesn't know much about hypnotherapy, but I thought they explained their USP fairly clearly. (Whether it's actually as miraculous as they describe = ??? ? ).
Yup, you are right. On second reading they explain the difference between hypnotherapy and PURE hypnotherapy but since I don't really know what hypnotherapy is I'm still somewhat in the dark.I mean, ok, it still seems a little opaque to someone (like me) who doesn't know much about hypnotherapy, but I thought they explained their USP fairly clearly. (Whether it's actually as miraculous as they describe = ??? ? ).
Is it Pseudoscience - woo?
My friend is very happy with it but that could be because her partner is having to spend large amounts of money on this treatment for her which would make her feel good.
I'm looking into hypnotherapy at the moment; would also like to know if there is any good evidence for it. It sounds like it could ease unhelpful thought patterns for those who are suggestible. But not sure whether that would be a placebo effect or a result of the actual therapy.
Hi everyone,
I'm a hypnotherapist, qualified a few years ago and I've had a look at "Pure Hypnotherapy" in order to get some idea of what it's claiming.
The cynical side of me says that it's a push for better SEO (many sites packed with keywords and linking to each other, numerous place names) and a unique angle on selling something to make him stand out from the crowd. The non-cynical side says the same thing :)
There are a mountain of member sites and even among the members there is a little ambiguity as to the name of the association that they are members of. Some say the International Association of Hypnoanalysts, others say the IAPH. It looks like a branding exercise if you ask me.
I would imagine that with the look and feel that they have they are more likely to be non-state than state hypnotherapists (believe in a combination of elements i.e. compliance, rapport building etc. causing the desired outcome rather than a magical state). That can only be a good thing as it tends to indicate (in my opinion) a more logical and scientific approach towards the therapy offered.
Hope that helps.
G
Hi garhol, and you are very welcome here at uks.
The bit I have bolded above seems interesting but (forgive me) I did not understand it. I am not familiar with these terms non-state and state and which is it that "believe in a combination of elements i.e. compliance, rapport building etc. causing the desired outcome rather than a magical state" state or non-state?
I really should have done more homework before asking these questions but if you could do a short explanation I, for one, would be very grateful.
Hiya and thanks for the welcome,
The terms state and non-state refer to the two main theories about how hypnotherapy works.
On brief side note: sometimes people mistakenly get the idea that the state vs. non-state argument relates to the governmental state and that one is government approved whilst the other is not. The idea behind the terms is as follows...
State hypnotherapists believe that when you enter "trance" you access a deep, profound mental state. They think you can use this state to affect change by harnessing whatever it is that they feel is "down there". (pun intended). I must confess to having not taken too much trouble to memorise the state argument as it struck me as a little "new-age" from the moment I heard it.
Non-state hypnotherapists are inclined to think that hypnosis is a combination of different effects which give the desired end result. A combination of expectation, compliance, roleplay etc. Without the "Harry Potter" aspects of the state camp it makes it no less "real". It's no longer a matter of believing in special powers, simply seeing known behavioural responses used to evoke a certain outcome.
To use a stage hypnosis example:
A state hypnotherapist may believe that under hypnosis you can "lose the ability" to taste raw onions or overcome the gagging reflex caused by eating one. This is brought about by the hypnotic state.
A non-state hypnotherapist is aware that people eat raw onions all the time (kebabs, salads, burgers) and that it is not the eating of raw onion that is the problem but the persons perception of this. They expect it to be nearly impossible to eat a raw onion. With the correct approach almost anyone can bite into and eat a raw onion with very little problems.
A non-state hypnotherapist works on the assumption that people are able to make dramatic changes that although they may seem unthinkable to the client (I could NEVER touch a snake) are actually quite attainable when approached in the correct manner (almost anyone barring those with some kind of "snake allergy" can touch snakes should they feel sufficiently motivated.).
Hope that helps to explain a bit about the state/non-state debate. There is a very good and far more literate explanation on wikipedia under the heading of hypnosis.
I'm more than happy to answer any other questions that crop up on the subject and would be interested to get more involved in the woo / non-woo debate
G
Sorry, it looks like I skirted the question when I re-read it
I read your question as relating to both but at a second look it is about the compliance, rapport building etc.
The non-state approach (which I take) works on the premise that a person can be guided (or steered) towards a self appointed goal without magic words, special mind-states and other elements which are often labeled as hypnosis.
A large part of hypnosis could well be placebo, albeit a very carefully sculpted and well targeted placebo. I still haven't heard anyone argue reasonably against this (I'm sure there are many who would argue unreasonably against it though).
Building rapport with a client helps to set up the session and makes them comfortable with working with you. It lets you find out the details which the client feels are important in making the change they want to make.
Compliance (which is very likely to play at least a partial role in the end result) dictates that a client will follow the suggestions that are given because that is what they believe will help them get better. No matter how real or effective hypnosis is, state or otherwise, compliance will always be a part of this. A figure who you trust tells you that you will be able to "touch snakes" then you will be more likely to believe that you can. When you believe you can touch snakes, the act of touching them is no longer magic or something impossible but a reaffirmation of your belief.
A large part of a phobic response is that a person cannot do something whilst they still believe at a subconscious level that they can not. Logic doesn't come into play because, logically knowing that you are safe up a ladder does not affect your belief that you might fall.
How many times have I heard a client say "I know it's stupid but I can't stop X". Logically they understand a panic attack (for example) but when the flight or fight response kicks in they react without rational thought getting involved.
When I work with a client I work with them to get them to begin questioning their beliefs about themselves and "testing the water" with a subtle change in their attitude towards their problem. To do this I use existing mechanisms that we know exist. There are elements of roleplay in the hypnotist, client relationship and this also has a part to play. If a client is more responsive or believes in themselves more because they believe in the "magic" of hypnotherapy then that's fine but it's not something which I would promote. The sad thing is that someone who believes in the Harry Potter parts is more likely to be compliant, open to change etc. I just don't think it's ethical to sell that idea on unless there is some evidence for it.
The whole bundle of behaviours (compliance, roleplay, placebo, expectation) goes together to make what I consider hypnotism / hypnotherapy but that's only my opinion. I consider the combination of them to make for a very powerful means of helping people get rid of beliefs that hold them back and take on board new beliefs that can help them move forward with their lives and overcome their self imposed limitations. The only reason that it looks like "magic"to some people is that they don't really give themselves credit for being able to do amazing things.
Hope that clarifies things. I rambled a bit and lost track but hopefully there's plenty to pull apart / debate there.
G
Thanks for that -makes it all a little clearer
Interesting we all believe you can be hypnotized , I was a magician for about 20 years, long ago . One trick we did on stage was the old get 10 people to act stupid by hypnotizing them , Well sorry but its very difficult to get properly hypnotized in a couch into Rem 2 stage and impossible on stage , so we tricked people, before the act you would pick 8 or 7 people from the audience who were real , and plant 2-3 stage helpers. On stage you would wisper to everyone “ this is a act, some times you may not actually get hypnotized. So as to not spoil it for everyone else who is actually under the spell just act it out , its harmless and it will give you some thing to talk about later, remember in magic we never tell the secrets so keep pretending you were hypnotized after the act”. The real joke is no one was hypnotized everyone one just acted , One of the stage helpers would go first and do a great job faking it then the cast. In hundreds of acts only had one or two say they were not under and would not fake it , we would simply shuffle them to the back and get on with the show , if you got some one who stumbled one or two of the stage helpers had a routine that would jump in and get the crowd going again. All fun and totally fake.
I also believe you really do not hypnotize any one , you may cause them to go into a sort of meditate stage but real hypnotism does not exist. If your interested in finding out what the mind can do in a fun sort of way look up Alice in wonderland symptoms, for people who have the disease its very debilitating for magicians we learn to generate assort of internal Alice in wonderland , Some call it trans mental mediation and try to make money off it in a bad way, in reality its your brain getting into Rem one or two sleep state when your awake . This can be confused with hypnotism as you generate the effect the same way . But because hypnotism has become accepted through advertising and writings we all believe hypnotism works when in reality were all ready and willing to play the GAME. My wife and I went through a program at university for volunteers to be hypnotized , nether of us and many in the class in 20 or more sittings ever went under , when you really asked people after wards most admitted to faking it just to look good . I did fall asleep a few times. We humans will believe anything.
Last edited by pixieone; 3rd June 2009 at 01:25 PM.
Stage Magician and nano Scientist. You truly aer an authority in all matters of scientific skepticism.
hi Matt yes have done a lot , now almost retired and finishing out my last working life desinging new Nano silver and ceramic inks for electronics, been fun. presentily building a small resot in the bahams to fully retire and enjoy life. seabreezes.biz did you look up alice in wonderland you might get a kick out of it , no magic , no trickery just your own brain on its self .
ps lke your writing style dont know half the words but its a fun read.
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