Does anyone know of any evidence relating to the use of infrasound therapy on people? I recently discovered and bought an ultrasound device which seems to work on my knee but now I'm reading of yet another miracle cure - aren't they all! However, I'll try anything as long as it is not going to kill me off!
Will you try sending a thousand pounds in cash to my PO box? Or do I have to make up some plausible sounding reason...Originally Posted by keveen
Ultrasound is a recognised and evidence-based treatment for a variety of conditions. I have not heard of the use of Infrasound treatment but a search google scholar for "infrasound therapy" revealed just a paltry 12 articles, either inconclusive, ancient or non-peer reviewed.
So, on that basis I wouldn't spend money on infrasound or expect it to be better than placebo (But there probably is someone in Liverpool Hope "University" willing to tell you that infrasound is the cure for everything from flatulence to death.....)
Last edited by dalriada; 17th March 2009 at 10:14 PM.
Pubmed 17/03/2009
Number of randomised controlled trials on infrasound in clinical practice = 0
Number of pilot trials in clinical conditions on infrasound = 0
Number of case reports of clinical use of infrasound = 0
Conclusion - evidence base = 0
Im taking it that this is the sort of thing in question:
http://www.toplinewellness.com/infrasound_therapy.htm
There is the usual claim of scientific proof....
....but with no references to back it up. It sounds nice and scientific but is actually BS.Scientific research has determined that normal healthy living cells emit frequencies of sound in the alpha range, between 8 and 14 hertz. The human body and specifically the hands of Asian "Chi gong masters" have been demonstrated in the laboratory to be natural alpha wave generators. These alpha wave's are considered to be the optimum frequency for healing and tissue recovery. Alpha waves are also associated with relaxation, and super learning. When our pets are affected by illness, injury , trauma or stress, the cells in their bodies begin to degenerate and produce frequencies outside of their healthy, alpha range. If we infuse our pet's body with these gentle low frequency, biocompatible, alpha sound waves they create healing harmonic vibrations that re-energize, and recharge the injured tissue and the animal begins to heal and feel better.
For instance alpha waves are electromagnetic waves and arise from electrical impulse in the brain. They are NOT sound waves, but DO oscillate at a similar frequency (20 Hz for alpha waves, 8-12Hz for infrasound).
Wiki has a nice little page on Infrasound which may shed some light on why it has been adopted intp the woo clan
The lack of any sound evidence base puts it into firmly into the 'ineffective miracle cure, lets con money out of unsuspecting people' category for me.Infrasound has been known to cause feelings of awe or fear in humans.[14][unreliable source?] Since it is not consciously perceived, it can make people feel vaguely that supernatural events are taking place.
skb
Hi keveen,
Out of curiosity what is the problem you are having with your knee and when you say this device has 'worked' what exactly do you mean? Can you describe any feelings you may have whilst using it
skb
Infrasound is just low-frequency vibration, so this device seems like a personal massager to me. Massage is a perfectly valid treatment for minor musculo-skeletal problems, and it might even help in more serious healing by exercising the tissues, provided that it doesn't disrupt them faster than the healing process.
I don't think the skeptic knee-jerk reaction of automatically debunking it with the usual objections is really much help here.
I agree with your second sentence, however, the evidence that infrasound can be used for massage is where exactly?
If this indeed how the device is intended to work then why couch it in such a psuedoscientific manner?
What have alpha waves got to do with infrasound?
Where is the evidence that Chi/Qi gong masters can generate alpha waves, or even infrasound through their hands?
Where is the evidence for any of these effects:
http://www.braintuner.com/qgm.htm1 - SLEEP - includes Delta range frequencies and is most effective for Chronic or traumatic injury, acute conditions, and degenerative processes where activation of subcellular organisms is needed to catalyze healing.
2 - PAIN - is most effective when applied locally for dissolving dysfunctional somatic memory, for inflammation, edema, stress, and the chronic results of intracellular trauma. Applied over heart, on bottom of feet, or with sweeping motions along the body. Individual results for pain relief will vary.
3 - FULL - For best results in accelerated recovery, use the FULL setting. The FULL setting combines all of the three signals of our previous model Infratronic 8 and also signals to relax tight muscles, uplift intention, reduce physical pain and reduce worry.
skb
[Effects of infrasound therapy on proliferation, apoptosis and ultrastructure of human B lymphoma Raji cells]
[Article in Chinese]
Bao Y, Fan JZ, Li K, Li C, Yang JF.
Department of Rehabilitation, Nanfang Hospital, Southern Medical University, Guangzhou 510515, China.
OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of infrasound therapy on the proliferation, apoptosis and ultrastructure of human B lymphoma Raji cells. METHODS: Human B lymphoma Raji cells were exposed to infrasound treatment for 15, 30, 60, 90 and 120 min and cultured subsequently for 24 or 48 h. MTT assay, flow cytometry analysis, and electron microscopy were performed to examine the proliferative status, cell apoptosis and ultrastructural changes of the exposed cells, respectively. RESULTS: MTT assay revealed no significant changes in the proliferation of the cells exposed to infrasound treatment (P>0.05), nor did flow cytometry analysis identified significant variation in the cell apoptosis (P>0.05). Scanning electron microscopy, however, identified shortened or reduced cell processes and microvilli on the surface of the cells with infrasound exposure and a subsequent 24-hour culture, and the cell membrane surface became smooth. Under transmission electron microscope, the cells with infrasound treatment presented with significantly reduced microvilli, and the cell nuclei appeared homogeneous, with cytoplasmic budding and losses after a 48-hour culture. CONCLUSION: Infrasound less than 90 dB does not obviously affect the proliferation and apoptosis of Raji cells, but may directly cause cell ultrastructural changes such as reduction of the cell processes.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18583273
Full text (in chinese, my browser will not display the fonts but the results tables and graphics can be viewed)
http://www.jfmmu.com/pdf2/200806/2008061093.pdf
[Observation of the L929 cell membrane after infrasound exposure with atomic force microscope]
[Article in Chinese]
Wang BS, Chen JZ, Liu B, Li L, Yi N, Liu J, Zhang S.
Department of Physiotherapy and Rehabilitation, Xijing Hospital, Fourth Military Medical University, Xi'an 710032, China.
OBJECTIVE: To observe the changes of L929 cell membrane with atomic force microscope (AFM) after infrasound exposure and to explore the mechanisms of effect of infrasound on cell membrane. METHODS: After primary culture, the L929 cells were exposed to infrasound with intensity output of 130 dB and frequency of 16 Hz 2 hours each day for 3 days. The subsequent changes in the membrane of the control cells and the cells exposed to the infrasound were determined by nano-scale scanning with AFM. RESULTS: After infrasound exposure, the normal prominence of the membrane became short and the dent became shallow in the 7.5 microm x 7.5 microm and 4.0 microm x 4.0 microm photographs. The prominence appeared as cobblestones. The surface of the membrane became smooth. CONCLUSION: The membrane structure of the L929 cells can be changed by infrasound exposure with intensity of 130 dB and frequency of 16 Hz. The change might be one of the characteristics of effect of infrasound on cell membrane.
Pubmed link
[Effects of infrasound on ultrastructure of testis cell in mice]
[Article in Chinese]
Wei YN, Liu J, Shu Q, Huang XF, Chen JZ.
Department of Genetics and Developmental Biology, Xijing Hospital, Fourth Military Medical University, Xi'an, Shanxi 710033, China. weiyaning@sina.com.cn
OBJECTIVES: To investigate the effects of infrasound on ultrastructure of testis in mouse. METHODS: Twelve male BALB/C mice were randomly divided into three groups according to exposed duration on 1, 7 and 14 day. The mice were separately exposed to infrasound environment under 8 Hz/90 dB, 8 Hz/130 dB, 16 Hz/90 dB, 16 Hz/130 dB 2 hours per day. There was another control group which had three mice were separated into module with no infrasound. All the mice were killed on schedule. Then all the sections of testis were observed under electronic microscope. The alterations of structure and the chromatin were observed. RESULTS: Some acute alteration in one day group was found in testis cell, such as cellular denaturation and necrosis, intercellular edema, mitochondria swelling, liposome hyperplasia. When the infrasound was up to 8 Hz/130 dB, the damage showed seriously. In 7 and 14 day group, the acute alteration was gradually decreased. A plenty of abnormal sperm were found. And other alteration was chromatin condense. The effect of variational frequency was important in ultrastructure. CONCLUSIONS: The infrasound markedly effected to testicular cell morphology and secreting function. Infrasound will lead to the alteration of procreation in mouse.
[Effects of infrasound on ultrastructure of testis cell in mice]
[Article in Chinese]
Wei YN, Liu J, Shu Q, Huang XF, Chen JZ.
Department of Genetics and Developmental Biology, Xijing Hospital, Fourth Military Medical University, Xi'an, Shanxi 710033, China. weiyaning@sina.com.cn
OBJECTIVES: To investigate the effects of infrasound on ultrastructure of testis in mouse. METHODS: Twelve male BALB/C mice were randomly divided into three groups according to exposed duration on 1, 7 and 14 day. The mice were separately exposed to infrasound environment under 8 Hz/90 dB, 8 Hz/130 dB, 16 Hz/90 dB, 16 Hz/130 dB 2 hours per day. There was another control group which had three mice were separated into module with no infrasound. All the mice were killed on schedule. Then all the sections of testis were observed under electronic microscope. The alterations of structure and the chromatin were observed. RESULTS: Some acute alteration in one day group was found in testis cell, such as cellular denaturation and necrosis, intercellular edema, mitochondria swelling, liposome hyperplasia. When the infrasound was up to 8 Hz/130 dB, the damage showed seriously. In 7 and 14 day group, the acute alteration was gradually decreased. A plenty of abnormal sperm were found. And other alteration was chromatin condense. The effect of variational frequency was important in ultrastructure. CONCLUSIONS: The infrasound markedly effected to testicular cell morphology and secreting function. Infrasound will lead to the alteration of procreation in mouse.
pubmed
skb
Last edited by skbuncks; 18th March 2009 at 12:23 AM.
The obvious conclusions from the above studies is that all the claims of this site are fully justified
http://soundvitality.com/index.asp?P...n=Custom&ID=57
The obvious conclusions from the above studies is that all the claims of this site are fully justified
http://soundvitality.com/index.asp?P...n=Custom&ID=57
These con artists obviously learnt from Lincoln, but only part of the quote: "...some of the people all of the time, ..." That is all they need to become rich.
That's better ... some actual evidence that this stuff is being promoted with paranormal claims. My issue with the original responses was that they appeared to be the standard answers given to anyone who asks about a treatment that isn't part of the drugs and surgery culture of conventional medicine - in other words "it must be bunk - don't bother to look any further". It doesn't seem to help much if the only places a person can go for answers are places which have an axe to grind either for or against all forms of unconventional medicine, without discrimination.
Misses the whole point.
The initial question was straight-forward, is there any evidence of benefit? This was answered with evidence of the 'absence of published evidence' end of story.
The subsequent information dug up by sb raises further questions about how this is being promoted, that takes us in a different direction.
Well, I can't speak for the original poster, but if it had been me then I would only have posted the query if I had a genuine interest in the subject, and the first few dismissive responses would probably have made me think I had wasted my time asking.
Can't see what the problem is. We are asked if there is any evidence for this 'treatment' there is not, this answer is given. What do you want a load of spectulation on what the potential for this approach is if the preclinical and cell based studies turned out to be reproducible in clinical tests? Not really skepticism is it?
The danger with such speculation is that when this is handed over to advertisers, the cautions and subleties all dissappear. So speculation is fine in private, where one is designing studies to test a particular hypothesis, and then published with the actual findings, but is simply asking for trouble when performed as an unsupported postulation, that can then be used to sell rubbish.
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