While I agree with the gist of what you are trying to say, I disagree that all people claiming psychic powers are to be immediately dismissed as dishonest and fraudulent. Many of them are honest at heart, sincere and when it comes to their claims are merely self-deluded, as I was. All evidence to the current moment indicates that such powers do not exist, however, we cannot say definitively that this will never change; although we can express our belief in that case.Originally Posted by seren
Therefore, we should not always assign sinister motives, or dishonesty to believers. That's why evidence is so important. Evidence and information about how they handle personal and family matters is irrelevant as it would not change the fact they had such powers (if indeed they did; i.e. they could be psychic and a thoroughly nasty person:- the two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive). This is why I made the point that no matter how low a person's personal opinion of any other person is, that opinion has no bearing on any available facts.
Hmm...you are right of course. I didn't mean to imply she was deliberately faking it. Perhaps "fraud" was the wrong word to use.
But certainly in determining whether she's deluded or deliberate in her claims, evidence of prior "bad behaviour" to get money (financial fraud, running scams etc) is interesting and relevant, perhaps?
Your last line is, as you know, is what I'm getting at. I'm just saying that perhaps we should be tougher on the unverifiable opinions offered by Unreal (apologies for discussing you, Unreal), as we would be with "believers".
Only if true, and I'm not sure how much of that is ... another reason I think it's good that the personal bias was highlighted immediately.
Well, I hope I tend to give equal weight to 'unverifiable opinions' no matter which side of an argument they fall on. I know it's human nature to give more weight to those opinions which add to our personal beliefs on a matter, but I'd hope that most skeptics are aware of such potential for confirmation bias, and give it thought when determining what to believe.
As someone who has asked Unreal a couple of questions, I recognise that what is being said is largely unverifiable but I don't think there is anything wrong with listening anyway.
ETA: After reading what I just wrote and then considering how I would have acted differently if Unreal was talking about a skeptic and not a psychic, I've realised I'm a hypocrite. Damn.
It's not quite as cut and dried as that tbh. The thing with Amanda is that she can find a way to justify in her own mind everything she does.
The business with the lightbulbs, for instance - she was always chatting to them, but only ever in front of me. She didn't once do it in front of her husband, and they'd lived with the flickering bulbs for a few years.
[reference to personal info removed] Monetary gain - yes, she's very motivated by money and 'success'. Why else do you think she was on tv, in local papers, jumping on huge cases ie, Maddie and Sally-Anne?
I'm not offended in the least if anyone is questioning my claims, I'm not here to brainwash anyone! I'm merely offering a unique insight into the mind of someone who claims to be psychic and offering the benefit of my knowledge with a bit of background information about this person, how she thinks, what motivates her and why it motivates her.
I'm not hiding anything, I've no need to. It's been questioned whether I do indeed know her and I've offered to scan on photos of her that I took 20 years ago to provide supporting evidence. I don't have anything to support [reference to personal info removed], although I've only mentioned this because it's a pattern in her life (as is the money/success issue) and therefore part of her complex make-up and as such, could possibly provide a psychological insight into why she does what she does.
Someone pointed out there may be a parallel in Amanda's life and other psychic's lives - I'd be interested to hear more about that theory
I don't wish to become embroiled in a forum war. The only reason I'm posting about Amanda and not any other 'psychic' is because I don't actually know anyone else who has claimed they have this rather spurious 'talent'. Although I did do some work on building Derek Acorah's website some years ago but he's been done to death (no pun intended).
Last edited by Admin; 28th January 2009 at 03:03 PM. Reason: reference to personal info removed
I often find I have to pull myself up for failing to apply the same standards of skepticism to things or people with which I agree as I say should be applied to those with which I don't. It's an unfortunate aspect of a lot of skeptical debate that I've seen ... but of course I don't get much support if I point it out.
(See the sig)
Nice. I must memorize that exactly for the next time I need it. Thanks
There are some posters/members of this site who have the ability to detach themselves from emotive reactions and stay calm and reasonable in the face of incredible nonsense. I always try to consider what they have to say very carefully, and have a lot of respect for their opinions. In the long run, the steady and careful examination of extraordinary claims is of course the best way forward.
I am sensitive to the fact that some/a few people out there claiming so called psychic/medium/paranormal abilities are deluded/ill/misguided. I would be very upset if I was responsible or complicit in hurting such people.
Having said that, and using the AJH case as a good example, I am not prepared to extend the courtesy of due consideration to those who are blatantly self promoting and have a documented history of dishonesty. AJH has a clear record. The personal testimony of Unreal may not be substantial evidence of a lack of psychic ability per se. But with the evidence that AJH tried to piggyback the Maddy and Sally Anne Bowman cases to absolutely no useful effect whatsoever, thrust herself forward for a meaningless television contest, and has a history of personal dishonesty, I am prepared to say that on the balance of probabilities she is a knowing fraud.
I would be interested to know if Chillzero and others she knows of who are decent, honest, yet probably deluded, ever indulged in the sort of self serving PR and showmanship that our cast of usual suspects do? I doubt it.
My theory is that the 'nice' ones tend not to emerge in the public eye.
The number of psychics who tried to get attention from the Madeleine McCann case was predictable but still disheartening. There may have been a few well meaning but deluded cases, but basically anyone putting out press releases or information onto websites and forums was just trying to get a name for themselves.
Of course as soon as it starteed to emerge that she wasn't going to turn up (dead or alive) anytime soon, they all disappeared back to the rocks from which they crawled, their vague predictions shot to pieces. The opportunity of stardom gone - for now.
The ones who are still linking themselves with that case in particular are pretty desperate to be honest.
Unreal: Did you ever personally witness anything else that SHE interpreted as paranormal, besides the flickering bulbs?
Good question Mulder :)
The answer is absolutely! Practically everything was "a sign" and/or "meant to be". She was religious about reading her star sign in the papers/magazines on a daily basis and actually lived her life around them. She also used to 'read' her dominoes every morning for "answers".
She was fanatical about it, she put herself and her family into some very difficult and bizarre situations when she got "a sign" which told her to do so.
She has attached herself to expensive alternative practitioners of all sorts, the people that you only get to see if you take out a second mortgage and have a double-barrelled surname. There was a TV model-come-hypnotist who used to have a show on ITV where she regressed people who are in the limelight (ie Phillip Schofield). Andrea-something-or-other? It'll come to me later. She meets them by paying for consultations with them and befriends them. She has always had big aspirations!
Incidentally she worships designer labels too - everything she buys must have a label.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1934795/
Andrea Foulkes - Have I been here before?
Spot on Polomint. If you have a look on the soulsearchingcentre website, I think I remember seeing a testimonial from Andrea on there. I'll look myself later on, I'm off out soon.
Amanda actually had the temerity to sign me up for Andrea Foulkes' newsletters, she was the only one who had that particular email address for me at the time. It was pretty much taken in the same vein as Amanda's round robins to me regarding how well she's done for herself. Having celebrity friends is important verification to AJH. She used to call me specifically to tell me every time she spotted a celebrity - Gillian Taylforth, Ursula Andrews were two of them, I can't remember the others she mentioned. She claimed to be going out with Lewis Collins (the actor who played Bodie in The Professionals) but he didn't turn up to her 21st birthday and all the photos of him/them together had been "stolen by yardies".
Unreal: Was Amanda right in anything she said about you? Did she have lots of friends when you knew her? Did she make friends easily? Did she 'see' spirits?
I was on my way to it.
I have discussed it in other threads, but feel free to start another if you wish to go into it deeper, so we don't derail this one. :)
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