Psychic crackdown on the cards

[Mojo]

Mediums are fighting new EU rules designed to protect the public from dodgy traders, fearing that honest spiritualists could be targeted

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/apr/06/eu

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

We've got trade associations springing up everywhere....

First Association of Spiritual Workers, now the UK Psychic Surgeons

http://www.ukpsychicsurgeons.org.uk/

This website has been setup to provide a portal for people looking for genuine Psychic surgeons in the uk.

Keep looking folks!

[bindeweede]

We've got trade associations springing up everywhere....

First Association of Spiritual Workers, now the UK Psychic Surgeons

http://www.ukpsychicsurgeons.org.uk/



Keep looking folks!

And 2 of the 3 links are.................
Nina Knowland and Gary Mannion. Now, there is a surprise!

And don't forget the disclaimer.............

Disclaimer:

Please remember as with all Alternative Therapies Psychic Surgeons dont give any guarantees, they dont claim to provide cures, and they are not medically trained in any way.

[bindeweede]

And then there is this....

Please Note
--------------
We are a group of healers not doctors.
We never promise a cure.
We do not charge for healing we charge a fee for our time.

http://www.andy-porter.co.uk/unity-o...c-surgeons.htm

[ForAllOfThis]

Instead it will be up to the trader, in this case the medium, to prove they did not mislead, coerce or take advantage of any 'vulnerable' consumers.

Something tells me that we are about to see a lot of court cases as soon as this law takes action.

[bindeweede]

Instead it will be up to the trader, in this case the medium, to prove they did not mislead, coerce or take advantage of any 'vulnerable' consumers.

Something tells me that we are about to see a lot of court cases as soon as this law takes action.

Well, I was under the impression the new law took effect as from April 1st. But I'm probably wrong.

Yes I am! It comes into effect TODAY! the 97 page document is here -

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/rep.../oft931con.pdf

[wooo_oops]

And 2 of the 3 links are.................
Nina Knowland and Gary Mannion. Now, there is a surprise!

And don't forget the disclaimer.............

Disclaimer:

Please remember as with all Alternative Therapies Psychic Surgeons dont give any guarantees, they dont claim to provide cures, and they are not medically trained in any way.

Actually, is it fair that the writer of that disclaimer is lumping all alternative therapists in the same boat? I'm pretty sure that Homeopaths have at least had to study anatomy and physiology to get their qualification, as have massage therapists, so it's not correct in any case.

[Mongrel]

Actually, is that fair, lumping all alternative therapists in the same boat? I'm pretty sure that Homeopaths have at least had to study anatomy and physiology to get their qualification,

Nope. Some may have done but you can read a book and call yourself a Homeopath - there's no minimum standard.

[wooo_oops]

Hm. Well, I can't say I'm surprised tbh.

[Mongrel]

Nope. Some may have done but you can read a book and call yourself a Homeopath - there's no minimum standard.

Bad form to quote myself but couldn't resist after seeing this, as an example of "any muppet can do it", over at Quackometer - MEDICAL ASTROLOGY FOR HOMEOPATHS.

[Acleron]

Nope. Some may have done but you can read a book and call yourself a Homeopath - there's no minimum standard.

Some of them can read? Wonders never cease.

Instead it will be up to the trader, in this case the medium, to prove they did not mislead, coerce or take advantage of any 'vulnerable' consumers.

Something tells me that we are about to see a lot of court cases as soon as this law takes action.

I will be pleasantly surprised if this is the case but remain pessimistic. The trade standards officers don't seem to be taking Boots etc to court over their homeopath preparation sales.

[thorshammer]

As a 'believer' I have obviously met people who are fake, even to the extent that they openly admit it, but then there are fakes everywhere in every profession. The faceless eurocrats who make our laws do after all fake democracy and yet we have to endure them.

The current wave of laws focusing on the alternative market seems worrying. It may well be driven by the desire to protect the consumer but I doubt it. It may well be that the religious zealots we currently have infused into the political system are seeking to oppress the opposition again, it is after all the fact that this current change in the law is technically the seconded replacement to the Witchcraft Act.
And then again this move may be the fringes of the moves by the multi-nations to curb the proliferation of health products and services that affect their sales. Bought and paid for ministers the world over are after all jumping to do the bidding of phamaceutical companies on this issue. Psychics and alt healers are collateral damage in a drugs war. The drug companies are ruthless in their activites to control opposition, they want sick people chained to their products, they don't want cures and they don't want cheap competition.

Skeptics should worry though about some of the recent moves, simply because we are moving into an age where the right to think, do and believe as we wish is being eroded. You may find it amusing to see psychics being closed down, you may find it it funny to see homeopaths victimized, but I can give you a cast iron guarantee that the humour will turn to dismay in time.

There was a time when skeptics were burnt at the stake alongside their psychic bretheren, those days are not so far gone and not so far from returning. The very right you exercise to disbelieve is heresy and punishable to some that may be behind these moves.

You may think that you live freely in a world where science and logic rules, but being a slave to corperations that exist to live off your sickness is not freedom. If we legislate to protect vulnerable people from losing a few million to psychics, shouldn't we legislate to protect the masses from losing billions upon billions to health care systems and companies that prey on them, of course we should, but there's too much money in it, too many bribes, too many greedy paws clawing at the pockets of the weak.

Laughing at the removal of your options is only sensible if the alternatives are trustworthy, glee at the removal of your choices should be reserved til the day comes when you can fully see the result. Maybe when you need a treatment and the only option is a toxic one that leaves you crippled and dependant, maybe that would be the day to laugh or not. One thing that is certain is that the more eaisly you allow others to strip away your freedoms the less funny your options will be when that day comes.

[Mongrel]

You may think that you live freely in a world where science and logic rules, but being a slave to corperations that exist to live off your sickness is not freedom. If we legislate to protect vulnerable people from losing a few million to psychics, shouldn't we legislate to protect the masses from losing billions upon billions to health care systems and companies that prey on them, of course we should, but there's too much money in it, too many bribes, too many greedy paws clawing at the pockets of the weak.

Suppose it's too much to ask for evidence?

[wooo_oops]

I'm no fan of alt medicine, but he has a point, I think. Are people fighting back?

Big Pharma

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

As a 'believer'

What do you believe in? Do you know yourself?

I have obviously met people who are fake, even to the extent that they openly admit it, but then there are fakes everywhere in every profession. The faceless eurocrats who make our laws do after all fake democracy and yet we have to endure them.

Given that the fakes can reproduce everything the legitimate psychic can do, how can you tell a fake? I don't see fake mechanics, or surgeons, or firemen, or accountants, etc, being able to reproduce the same results? There is no evidence that psychics are not fake - either self delusional or wilfully fraudulent.

The current wave of laws focusing on the alternative market seems worrying. It may well be driven by the desire to protect the consumer but I doubt it. It may well be that the religious zealots we currently have infused into the political system are seeking to oppress the opposition again, it is after all the fact that this current change in the law is technically the seconded replacement to the Witchcraft Act.
And then again this move may be the fringes of the moves by the multi-nations to curb the proliferation of health products and services that affect their sales. Bought and paid for ministers the world over are after all jumping to do the bidding of phamaceutical companies on this issue. Psychics and alt healers are collateral damage in a drugs war. The drug companies are ruthless in their activites to control opposition, they want sick people chained to their products, they don't want cures and they don't want cheap competition.

So because the drug companies want to push their products, we should accept the mostly non-existant claims of alternative medicine providers?

Alt med providers charge (sometimes small, sometimes large) fees and have to go through none of the research or regulatory hurdles that pharmacutical companies have to. That is why they try to protect their investment - they have literally so much invested in product and need to try to maximise profit because they may not get another profitable drug through the regime for a long time. They need policing - but that doesn't mean we let all the evidence-free, expensive charlatans take their place.

Skeptics should worry though about some of the recent moves, simply because we are moving into an age where the right to think, do and believe as we wish is being eroded. You may find it amusing to see psychics being closed down, you may find it it funny to see homeopaths victimized, but I can give you a cast iron guarantee that the humour will turn to dismay in time.

Emmm, these are people that are operating fraudulently. All they have to do is produce some evidence and they will be accepted into the evidence based reality community. Why is it so hard?

There was a time when skeptics were burnt at the stake alongside their psychic bretheren, those days are not so far gone and not so far from returning. The very right you exercise to disbelieve is heresy and punishable to some that may be behind these moves.

Who says this? The Daily Mail?

To be honest, I'm not currently worrying about getting burnt at the stake.

You may think that you live freely in a world where science and logic rules, but being a slave to corperations that exist to live off your sickness is not freedom. If we legislate to protect vulnerable people from losing a few million to psychics, shouldn't we legislate to protect the masses from losing billions upon billions to health care systems and companies that prey on them, of course we should, but there's too much money in it, too many bribes, too many greedy paws clawing at the pockets of the weak.

If you don't like healthcare, maybe you should try living just 100 years ago. It's not all greed you know, why don't you go read up on medical advances of the last 100-150 years.

Laughing at the removal of your options is only sensible if the alternatives are trustworthy, glee at the removal of your choices should be reserved til the day comes when you can fully see the result. Maybe when you need a treatment and the only option is a toxic one that leaves you crippled and dependant, maybe that would be the day to laugh or not. One thing that is certain is that the more eaisly you allow others to strip away your freedoms the less funny your options will be when that day comes.

You aren't bitter are you?

Again, go read what medicine really is.