Hello all,
I have done some internet research but can't find anything that isn't biased towards selling me something, so I was hoping one of you smart science-types might be able to help. I'm gonna post this in JREF as well, I need all the help I can get.
Here's the problem:
My sister and her partner live in the same block of flats as me and hubby, but we are on the 2nd floor (the top) where they are in the middle, on the 1st floor.
When they bought their apartment, the one above theirs was empty. A few months ago, the owner of the flat above rented it out to a really horrible chav couple. I hate to be a snob but they are totally unsuitable for a lovely quiet upmarket block like ours. Anyway, snobbery aside, they are noisy people. Very.
They shout conversations through rooms rather than talking face-to-face, they argue constantly at very anti-social hours (e.g. 3am), they stamp about and slam doors, cupboards etc. Last night my sister came to mine in tears at 12:30am because the chavs had arrived home drunk and proceeded to sing at the top of their voices then have a huge argument.
Whilst there is clearly a problem with the lifestyles of these people, there seems to be an acoustics problem too. When sitting in my sister's bedroom, you can every single word, perfectly clearly, that the upstair's people are saying, even if they are talking at normal levels. If they have friends round, the noise from their conversation is so high it's unbearable. I have witnessed this myself, it's no exaggeration.
My sister and her bloke have to get up when their neighbours do, and can't go to bed until they do, simply because the noise of their everyday living is too loud. It's ridiculous.
My sister has asked my downstairs neighbour how much of us he can hear, and he said very little - the odd bang if we drop something or shout, but he certainly can't hear conversations.
The only difference that I can tell between my flat and the chavs, is that our flat is carpeted in very thick underlay and thick pure wool carpet. The chavs' flat has very thin underlay and thin cord carpet. The other difference is that there were brittle vinyl tiles on our floor when we moved in, which we removed before the carpet was fitted. I know for a fact that the chavs' flat still has these tiles under the carpet.
The flats are brick, built in 1965 and structurally in good condition.
The ideal solution would probably be to have the landlady of the flat above buy acoustic underlay and thicker carpet for her entire flat. It is highly unlikely that she is going to pay for this (although my sister has written to her to ask), so we need to think of alternative solutions.
I have seen ceiling acoustic boards for sale which claim to block mid-range frequency noise (which is what normal talking is), but other sources claim that these don't work. I can't see why they wouldn't, as adding a very dense layer to the ceiling would surely stop noise?
If the landlady refuses to pay for underlay, I think my sister should find a solution that requires doing something to her own flat, rather than her paying to improve someone else's property.
Does anyone know anything about acoustics or noise? Could this be a structural problem?
Yours,
Desperate in Moseley
try this (perhaps as a last resort)
Noise complaints to the council
although it only deals with music, really.
It might be worth getting them to keep a record of times, dates, duration, etc in case...
They aren't interested.Originally Posted by vbloke
Anti-social noise has to be VERY extreme for them to take action, and they had their entire funding for noise-monitoring equipment and noise 'police' (officers who come round immediately when you report a noise, to witness it in order to serve a noise abatement notice).
Regular living noises that are for some reason unusually loud isn't their area.
I have dealt with them often, and at length, and they are useless.
My neighbour in my old flat was served with no less than three noise abatement notices for playing loud music all night. Did it stop him? Did it hell. It's like a noise ASBO, you have to do something very anti-social to get one, not just talk or have sex like my sister's neighbours are doing.
But thanks anyway :)
I should add that the management company of the block have already written to the tenants AND the landlady saying they had had complaints. When the tenants received theirs, my sister had to listen to a tirade of abuse about her. Nice, huh?
Anyway, both parties have ignored the letters.
The first step is to get the horrid people evicted. But that isn't going to solve the unusually high noise levels. There's no way that in a normal flat you should be able to hear every word of a neighbour's conversation.
Is there any way you can pinpoint the exact way that the noise is being transmitted to the flat?
It must be resonating somewhere unless the ceiling/floor is just particulary thin.
Are the flats identical and does anyone else have the same problem?
.
rent or own?
If you can't get them to shut up or put in decent carpet & underlay, the only solution I can think of is to install a "floating" ceiling with plenty of insulation in it to dampen the noise, although this will reduce the height of the room somewhat.
for no reason: http://www.ceilingcat.com/
It is the worst in the bedroom, where they can hear conversations from above even when the neighbours are in a different room.
The flats are identical as far as I can tell. My sister has asked most of the other owners, and no-one else has a problem.
The previous owner of my sister's flat was an old lady who was deaf. Instead of a doorbell, there is a lightswitch on the outside, and all of the internal doors are glass. Could it be possible that the glass doors are somehow amplifying sound travelling down the walls?
They're going to replace the doors asap anyway (cause they're horrid), I was wondering if buying solid-wood doors (expensive) would help, rather than the cheaper plywood doors.
VBloke, my sister owns hers, the upstairs people are renting.
In that case, I would suggest that they pad out the ceiling as you can't guarantee that the landlord will fix the floor upstairs.
There may be other methods, but this is the only one I can think of. I don't think the doors will make too much difference, but it may be worth buying solid doors in case.
That's my opinion too. My sis is reluctant because of the cost, when they haven't even started fixing the place up yet (and you've seen it, it needs fixing!).
It sounds as if the floor above is acting as an auxilliary radiator of the noise. As you know, noise is a sine wave transmitted through the air, this energy is then transimitted through the AR and back into the air on your sisters' side.
Options
1 reduce the engergy of the sound before it hits the AR
2 Dampen the AR
3 move
4 encourage the Chavs to change behviour
5 encoursge the Chavs to move
1 in order to do this the Chavs would need to install lots of softer funishings with pleanty of foam, long textile curtains to cover areas of glass and some thick carpets
The worst thing to have would be leather sofas, laminate floor and big glass windows and doors
2 Dampen the AR, this would entail adding bitumen panels under the floor and then using acoustic wadding to fill any air space. A suspended ceiling could be added with acoustic wadding to fill the gap. I am not sure what fire regs would say about bitumen panels as I suspect they burn pretty well. Cork tiles may also work, but again not sure of fire regs.
I wonder if they could drill some entry holes in the ceiling and get a firm to pressure fill the space with rock wool, I am sure this is ok with fire regs
3-
4 send the boys round!!
5 nasty smells might help, hydrogen sulphide is a particular favourate of mine as are mercaptones, rotting fish makes a good whiff.
Thanks everyone, some excellent advice there.
I agree that getting rid of Chav and Chavette is the priority, but there will almost certainly still be noise whoever lives there (unless it's one person with no friends, maybe).
The wheels are in motion, my sis is putting pressure on the management company because of course, when you buy a leasehold flat, the terms of the lease include anti-social behavior clauses, and the owner is responsible for her tenants.
I suspect the noise solution will have to be dealt with from my sisters flat rather than from upstairs, so I think some basic hole and crack filling (oo-er) and replacing the glass doors, which is all work that needs doing anyway, will be where they start.
I'll keep you informed of progress!
But at least a non Chav couple might be more empathic towards your sisters plight when it comes to re-decorating
Ah, therein lies the rub. My sister owns her flat, the chavs are merely renting from the real owner. Therefore, it is not their responsibility anyway.But at least a non Chav couple might be more empathic towards your sisters plight when it comes to re-decorating
My sis has written to the owner with a heartfelt plea and some underlay suggestions, we shall see. I doubt she's going to want to fork out anything though, landlords never do*
*tkingdoll is a landlord herself so knows this for a fact
I still think it's important to ascertain exactly how the noise is getting though. It would be a shame to spend a load of money on one something only to find the noise is coming via the pipes or whatever.
.
Yeah, they need to do a thorough search and fill any holes, gaps, cracks etc first, just to see what, if any, difference it makes. A ceiling fix is gonna be costly so they need to be sure it'll work. I might buy them a can of 'no more big gaps' as a moving-in gift (they only bought the place a few months ago).
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