hi i came here by accident hope you don't mind the fact i am a believer but with an open mind
i will argue my case if need be
but
also in the same respect
will also listen to you
think i will look forward to meeting you all hope you don't mind the fact i believe in spirtualism and the other side but i have a sceptical husband so know how to argue about it love a good discussion and reading other views as long as you don't mind mine
Welcome :)
Good on you for joining here, hopefully we have a lot to learn from you as well as putting (sometimes throwing) a lot of questions and things your way. Believers are as welcome here as skeptics but it does get a little heated occasionally. Sounds like you're well practiced in addressing demands for evidence though :)
You will also find there are several ex-believers of one sort of another here. We have ex-religious folk, ex-psychics, etc (that's a pun if you read it out loud).
I would be interested to know if you are familiar with the origins of Spiritualism and the history of the Fox sisters?
have heard of the fox sisters
glad you don't mind me being here i just love a good discussion. you have far side of the moon to blame for getting me here,he posted something on another site i am a member of and a thread i started and i was intruiged and..... hey ho here i am
donnygirl,
I look forward to sharing with you here.
It's late, I'll check in with you tomorrow.
thanks Z
catch up with you later i have to be at work at 6
think i may stuggle
I'm getting blamed for everything nowOriginally Posted by donnygirl
Not necessarily. We have already established that we are all entitled to our beliefs. You have yours, I have mine, and they each have theirs. I know they all appear to be coming from the same direction but they're not and yet they, me included, still manage to discuss things and share stuff with each other without coming to blows. You popped in and your very first post was very hostile on a very sensitive subject, especially (if I may say) for woman. You then apologised for your bluntness. No matter how strong we feel about our beliefs, surely we must take into consideration the sensitiveness of the topic and the vulnerability of the person before spouting that we think they are talking rubbish?
Personally I think you posted without due care and attention and I think you have learn your lesson.
I would like to welcome you onboard this thread that donnygirl started.
It could be interesting.
Well, not really because I don't retract anything I've said. I still find pretending to get messages from embryos, in an attempt to enhance standing in an internet forum, to be repulsive.
I respect the right for people to have different beliefs, however I still find those beliefs ridiculous, repulsive and absurd.
It is a fallacy to assume that different points of view carry equal weight and should all be respected.
I posted this on the other forum and I want to post it here in order for anyone, interested in the debate that is taking place here and on the other forum, to see where I'm coming from.
Sammi posted about Silvia Brown being accused of being a fraud. What follows was my reply to her post.
I'm going to come clean here and will no doubt get yelled at but hear me out folks. I don't like psychics, especially those in the media. What they do we can do too but they get the rest of us a bad name. They get their agents and their bookings and their books published and they get carried away with the limelight. Meantime us poor saps are turning ourselves inside out trying to convince people that we have (for want of a better word) spiritual experiences. I am not a psychic and have refused the title many, many times.
Sammi, If you have had 'spiritual experiences' have faith in them, have faith in yourself. The psychics in the media have these experiences I have no doubt but they have lost their way. The real path for this 'stuff' is a spiritual one not a financial one. I have nothing against a psychic giving readings, giving comfort. All I ask is that you keep it in perspective. A lot of you talk about wanting to help people and you can, so much can be done quietly in the background, you don‘t need an audience. I help people all the time just by being myself and passing on a little advice and guidance occasionally to those who ask for it. The media psychics may have started off wanting to help people but then they began to believe their own publicity hype. Too many of them are being classed as frauds and this reflects very badly on the rest of us. It makes us look like nut jobs.
Okay. Rant over. Sorry if I upset anyone but its the truth and it's time we faced it.
Hi Zaira,
I think you are possibly being too generous here. I'd say most, if not all, media psychics have been in it for themselves right from the start.
If you take the case of Sylvia Browne, she is a convicted fraudster and has been exposed as a complete fraud in her psychic career. (I'll remind anyone that doesn't know already, go visit stopsylviabrowne.com)
I'd be surprised if at any point she actually believed she had any psychic powers. Same goes for all the other ones you see on the telly etc, the skills they use now to generate the illusion are the same ones they used at the start. These people must know beyond any reasonable doubt that the abilities they are pretending to portray are completely false.
The Psychic Barber for instance is another one that is supposed to be convincing and have real ability, however if you pop over to badpsychics, you will see some transcripts of his readings which show he resorts to cold reading (badly) when he has to. And that suggests that when he is being accurate, he must be using another method, which surely must be hot reading. My point again, is that he must have been using these techniques right from the start.
FarSideOfTheMoon,
Okay. You stand by what you said. I get it. But what about a little compassion for the feelings of the other people participating on that forum.
"I still find pretending to get messages from embryos, in an attempt to enhance standing in an internet forum, to be repulsive."
If that was the case then I agree. But how do you know that was the case? What if she wasn't pretending? What if she really believed it? Wouldn't a more gentle approach have been in order when trying to point out where someone might be mistaken about something?
"I respect the right for people to have different beliefs, however I still find those beliefs ridiculous, repulsive and absurd."
Which beliefs exactly?
"It is a fallacy to assume that different points of view carry equal weight and should all be respected."
I'm not assuming anything. But help me out here. What about devils advocate? Isn't that a way of putting forward different points of view that have equal weight? Personally, respect, like my advice is given very sparingly. The only respect I feel of any importance here is the respect shown to another person while they put forward their views in a debate. Then we can go on to disagree as strongly as we want without disrespecting the person. Or if we do, we keep it to ourselves and focus on the topic of debate.
We are out of sync. Go get a coffee and give me time to catch up.
FarSide,
"I think you are possibly being too generous here. I'd say most, if not all, media psychics have been in it for themselves right from the start."
Perhaps. But I'm a nice person, I don't like trashing people.
"If you take the case of Sylvia Browne, she is a convicted fraudster and has been exposed as a complete fraud in her psychic career. (I'll remind anyone that doesn't know already, go visit stopsylviabrowne.com)"
I understand that. And I would have got to it eventually but I was taking it easy over there. They are nice people, like myself. And like me, or like I used to be, they have their own way of doing things. I attempted a few times to explain that I believe they have stuff going on but they simply don't have the whole picture. I tried but I have this 'big yellow car clamp' in my brain that stops me from interfering in other people's lives. I put forward a few theories and asked some questions in the hope that something would click with someone and they would get curious enough to ask about it. I got a few PMs asking for more information but no one seemed to want to commit themselves to a discussion.
Don't worry, I haven't forgotten that you don't believe in this stuff. I just thought it would be nice if we could all discuss it without blowing each other's heads off.
".. Same goes for all the other ones you see on the telly etc, the skills they use now to generate the illusion are the same ones they used at the start. These people must know beyond any reasonable doubt that the abilities they are pretending to portray are completely false."
See that's where I come in.... I understand what they are talking about on the forum when they share their 'strange' experiences, I do too. But I get lost when people start talking about having powers and special gifts, I know it's only words but they are very misleading - and off putting. I have an explanation and I have shared it before with favourable reaction. I planned to share it there too when I had got enough people interested in looking at what happens from a different perspective. I'll probably get kicked off there now and that would be an awful shame.
"The Psychic Barber for instance is another one that is supposed to be convincing and have real ability, however if you pop over to badpsychics, you will see some transcripts of his readings which show he resorts to cold reading (badly) when he has to. And that suggests that when he is being accurate, he must be using another method, which surely must be hot reading. My point again, is that he must have been using these techniques right from the start."
I really can't comment on that because I haven't read any of his books or seen any of his shows. I hadn't even heard of him till I went to that forum. Now it's a case of 'nice party shame about the host'. He's never there. I don't even think he knows about that forum. But I could be wrong.
Hell! I could be wrong about all of this!
Last edited by Zaira; 21st September 2007 at 09:24 AM.
Hey Zaira I doubt you'll get kicked off and I hope you don't. You are right to withold critical discussion from that forum and I respect you for doing so - the spirit world, synchronicity etc, is after all the greatest 'unexplained' and if people know things then it is not for me to question or accuse them. There is much to learn on both sides of this!
I have just checked out the last thread you were on. Wow! I take it you've come over here in order to get your second wind.
Did you get my message?
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