I noticed this thread on Randi's forum: Psychics and missing people
Psychics love to claim that they are "helping" people like the police and families of missing persons. I've always found this claim to be somewhat sanctimonious, especially because they claim that the police or the families ask for their assistance.
What we've seen with the thread linked to above however, is that many of these psychics are acting in a predatory way; using an emotional appeal to guilt being particularly manipulative.
Psychics have never shown that they have any ability at all when it comes to finding missing people and have demonstrated (and tried to hide the fact) that they can give completely inaccurate and damaging information. See Claus Larsen's article on Skeptic Report: http://www.skepticreport.com/psychics/psitechsmart.htm
I don't know the extent of this problem here in the UK, but it's worth looking into. These people are taking money, giving false hope, false information, and possibly damaging information, yet there's no proof that thay can do what they claim (other than with their retrospective claims).
Surely there's a case for the pathetically weak Fraudulent Mediums Act (1951) to be overhauled and expanded to deal with problems such as this?
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Hi,
It is often claimed by ‘psychics’ that their services are often used, and in high demand by the police. This claim is particularly topical at the moment, with the screening of Channel 5’s irresponsible game show: ‘Britain’s Psychic Challenge.’
One of my friends recently tried to use this silly programme as an argument for the validity of ‘psychic’ ability, citing the ‘psychic’ Diane Lazarus as an example of someone whose services have been used often by police.
Firstly, here’s a quote about psychic detectives which I lifted from Robert Todd Carroll’s excellent ‘Skeptic’s Dictionary.’ (You can find the quote and the context here: http://www.skepdic.com/psychdet.html):
"These guys don't solve cases, and the media consistently gets it wrong," says Michael Corn, an investigative producer for "Inside Edition" who produced a story last May debunking psychic detectives. Moreover, the FBI and the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children maintain that to their knowledge, psychic detectives have never helped solve a single missing-person case.
"Zero. They go on TV and I see how things go and what they claim but no, zero," says FBI agent Chris Whitcomb. "They may be remarkable in other ways, but the FBI does not use them" ("Prophet Motive," Brill's Content, November 27, 2000).
But while Chris Whitcomb provides us with the information that the FBI eschews psychic detectives, that doesn’t say much about whether UK police forces use such charlatans. So I thought I would ask them myself.
I sent the following letter to the forty five or so police forces in the United Kingdom who are contactable by email. Many of the responses I received acknowledged my letter, and promised to provide information under the Freedom of Information Act, for which there would be a charge (probably quite steep). But so far, I have received seven instructive personal replies from very helpful officers, which follow beneath my letter:
Here’s the letter I sent:
Dear Sir or Madam,
I have been intrigued by the recent television series on Channel Five, which is supposedly testing the claims of people who claim to possess psychic abilities. The television programme, entitled ‘Britain’s Psychic Challenge’ has asserted that police forces routinely use such ‘psychics’ to assist in solving crimes.
I would like to discover where, when and to what public cost such ‘psychics’ have been deployed, and so to this end I have checked with Hansard. It appears that two questions have been asked of Hazel Blears in the House of Commons, by Lynne Featherstone and Simon Hughes. Ms. Blears responded, saying records are not kept centrally, and that the use of ‘psychics’ was a matter solely for the commissioners of respective police forces in the UK.
With this understanding in mind, would it be possible for you to provide details of where, when and at what cost such psychics have been used - if at all - within your force’s jurisdiction? If psychics have been used, might I ask whether their input was useful?
E. Silence
Here are the personal responses I have received so far; and I expect to receive several more (I can provide email addresses should anyone wish!). As you will see, it seems Mystic Meg is currently collecting her Jobseekers’ Allowance…
DEVON AND CORNWALL CONSTABULARY
Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:28
Devon & Cornwall Constabulary do not use the "services" of psychics and any persons offering such services are routinely declined.
SURREY POLICE
Tue, 21 Feb 2006 07:52
We do not/have not used this method.
Jonathan Edwards, HQ Registry
CITY OF LONDON POLICE
Tue, 21 Feb 2006 10:11
Dear Sir or Madam, for your information, psychics have never been used by
the City of London Police to my knowledge.
Kieron Sharp, Detective Chief Superintendent
METROPOLITAN POLICE
Tue, 21 Feb 2006 13:16
Thank you for your email - I have passed this to the Freedom of Information Unit but as far as I know we have not and do not use psychics.
EMail Office, New Scotland Yard
DURHAM POLICE
Tue, 21 Feb 2006 13:53
Durham Police does not use and would not seek the use of a Psychic for
Investigations.
Ian Scott, D/Ch/Superintendent, CID
KENT POLICE
Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:45
I refer to your request for information on Psychics. We do not keep records of persons who contact police in such circumstances to offer information in a readily searchable form. It would be almost inconceivable for Kent Police to have paid a person purporting to have psychic powers for their assistance.
In my personal experience as a police officer with 30 years service, in the aftermath of a major crime many people offer information, as witnesses, psychics or experts. All information is evaluated and considered. Personally, I have never found a person claiming to have psychic abilities to have been of benefit to an investigation.
Kevin Turner, Detective Chief Superintendent
NORFOLK POLICE
Mon, 27 Feb 2006 12:54
To my knowledge, there would be no way of keeping records on matters of this nature as they would be individual policy decisions made by individual Senior Investigating Officers. I have no knowledge of them being formally used in Norfolk, although many psychics often write in with their varying suggestions when a high profile incident takes place. The Psychic Challenge on Channel 5 has provoked a lot of people to call in with suggestions to unsolved cases and these are forwarded to the relevant investigating officers. This evidence has no credibility although it may point to a line of enquiry otherwise not thought of.
Sgt Ed Brown, Norfolk Police
Great work there Eddie.
Psychics who claim to be "helping" or "working with" the police do exactly what some of your respondents have indicated: they contact the police with their information; it's not the other way round.
That's a good point too about using taxpayers' money. If a police force were to use psychics, they would have to justify spending our money on them. That would mean that the psychics would have to get positive results.
.
Another sane copper speaks. I feel a pattern is developing...
WARWICKSHIRE POLICE
Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:10
To my knowledge, no psychic has been used to assist any serious crime within
Warwickshire. We do get correspondence or telephone calls from people
claiming to be mediums or psychic and offering their views or assistance in
relation to specific investigations that have appeared in the media, but I
would not advocate using them. The police deal in factual evidence
admissible in a Court of law and all such evidence must be credible and
tangible.
Ken Lawrence, Detective Superintendent
Eddie - this topic is of particular interest to me and I applaud you for taking the initiative in pursuing it. :)
Diane Lazarus is only one of a long list of psychics claiming to have regularly worked with the police. Isn't it depressing how the claims always emanate from the psychic and not the police! Certainly the police do not actively seek it.
The psychic inevitably inveigles their way into the family first - with one eye on a media opportunity rather than give the 'information' direct to the police. If the information is so important why delay?
Understandably UK forces are cool towards psychics. The Association of Chief Police Officers in their 'Guidance to Missing Persons' urges great care saying, "Information from psychics will also be received and can create pressures for searches to be made of those areas. Such information be treated with extreme caution and evaluated against the prevailing circumstances".
While I'm not aware of any UK police force conducting research into the viability of using psychics, I do know that the Los Angeles Police Department did several years ago. They had hoped that psychics may be used to increase the Department's effectiveness, save time, manpower, and funds. A brief resume of the studies (they conducted two in all) can be found here. Its results confirm what I think we already know of the psychic's method, ie. that psychics throw a huge amount of information which when pared down may have some 'hits' yet no more than could be expected by chance. The public perception that psychics could provide useful help to police departments stemmed from the presentation of these claims by the psychics themselves seeping into the public consciousness. As a result LAPD abandoned the idea.
Recent conversations with Debra Glaser, Chief Psychologist LAPD have indicated that this position still stands contradicting local psychics who, as to be expected, persist in claiming otherwise.
Thanks for that excellent link, Muse. I was unaware of those particular tests, so there’s some more data in my armoury…
This whole correspondence was inspired by one of my friends who really should know better, telling me that I must watch the ‘Britain’s Psychic Challenge’ TV show, “because psychic detectives are *finally* being scientifically tested, at long last”.
I confess to a shrill response: “Science, my arse. It’s bloody Trisha ‘Jerry Springer’ Goddard, for crying out loud”.
She replied, no, I was mistaken: there *has* to be some truth to the abilities of psychic detectives; after all, why would the police use them if there wasn’t? Now, I know that some of my friends like to imagine that the wacky old US of A uses psychics to assist with police enquiries, but I suspect that’s not so much a real belief as a juvenile desire to ridicule Americans, encouraged by the X-Files, and compounded by the kind of Americans who spend their time doing their level best to make satirists redundant (e.g. George Bush, Pat Robertson, Charlton Heston, Ann Coulter, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jackie Stallone, etc., etc., ad nauseum...)
However, this particular friend of mine was being straight up, and moreover, she was talking about sensible, sober Britain. She was very sure that our police use psychics, even if the Yanks don’t. I looked at her long and hard for signs of irony or sarcasm, but no, she really thought this one was true. After all, Diane Lazarus was pretty convincing, wasn’t she?
Far from it, I thought. I immediately resolved to find out for myself which police forces used such people as delusionals, fraudsters or delusional fraudsters, and present the evidence to her. (I’ve got to say that it sure is a pain in the arse having to find out what I we already knew.)
Needless to say, my prediction was that I would receive a full complement of responses declaring 'psychic detection' to be either A) hogwash, B) tosh, C) nonsense, or D) bullshit. As we have seen, I was indeed a prophet in that I scored all four hits in every single case. I showed her the replies I have received so far, and her slippery response was an exercise in goalpost moving:
“Yeah, but we know that the police are liars. Look at the Birmingham Six. Besides, they wouldn’t want to admit it anyway, because then they’d look stupid and they have their image to think of.”
Unh? There’s no second guessing irrationality, eh? I couldn’t get my head around this. Illogic, if I ever heard it. I couldn’t get past these scenarios:
1. If psychic detectives are real, why would the cops think they’d look stupid for using a proven method of inquiry?
2. In order for police to think they might suffer PR fallout for using psychics, they’d have to believe that psychics are not credible, which means they would not use them.
Don’t people say silly things to save face?
By the way, with regard to the Fraudulent Mediums Act, I agree with you Admin. We need to firm up the law regarding such frauds, and at the very least we need to get the 1951 act enforced. Since we clamp down hard on people who practise medicine without the required education and licensing, by the same token we should treat ‘psychics’ with the same gravitas that we treat other fraudsters and quacks...
Another response, this time from Scotland:
DUMFRIES & GALLOWAY
Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:04
Whilst it is not the policy of Dumfries & Galloway Constabulary to use 'psychics'in criminal investigations, information from ‘psychics’ could from time to time be volunteered.
I am not aware of any information having been provided by a 'psychic' which has contributed to the evidence chain of a police investigation, however, any information provided is carefully assessed and considered before being pursued.
Since these facilities have not been used there have been no related cost implications to the public of Dumfries and Galloway.
I trust that this is helpful
Jane Buckley, Executive Support
I’ve always been intrigued by the contradiction occasionally encountered whereby an experienced officer praises the efforts of a psychic - inevitably produced with a flourish on some psychic’s web site (see Diane Lazarus and Keith Charles) and other scenarios, already demonstrated, where other experienced officers flatly deny their use.
Jackie Malton, Britain’s Psychic Challenge and apparently the inspiration for the character Jane Tennison in Prime Suspect, was a very good example of how psychics can fool even the most experienced police officer. To this day I’m still not sure if she realises how illogical she appeared during her efforts to defend all manner of mystic nonsense against the sceptics in the show. She continued to champion Diane Lazarus’ ‘remarkable abilities’ to the end completely convinced of magical powers at work. How can this be?
There are several reasons;
- The psychic employs prior knowledge (hot reading) or cold reading techniques to garner verbal or non-verbal clues from the listener. This may seem impressive by confirming something of what is already known to officers but cannot yield anything new.
- Often psychic accuracy cannot be verified until after the investigation is concluded. Then it is an easy matter for the psychic to retrofit or match their own fragments of information into the real picture so forming copious ‘hits’. Psychic ‘information’ is remarkably vague; for example, a number or feature such as trees or water can be made to fit almost any interpretation of the events as they transpired.
- Social and psychological factors ie belief systems, which may predispose anyone including a police officer to accept the accuracy of this information. It has even been known for some police officers to unwittingly help the psychic convert a ‘miss’ into a ‘hit’!
- The fallibility of human memory - it only takes a little filling in of the blanks courtesy of subjective validation and even a police office can be completely taken in especially when combined with other factors mentioned above.
The hard facts are that a psychic has never provided any new information, which directly led the police to a crime scene, missing person or perpetrator– there is no credible scientific evidence to show that psychic ability has ever solved a crime. Success can only be achieved by hard work and due diligence making it the more galling when some psychic in need of having their ego massaged claims the credit for months or even years of leg work done by dedicated officers.
As for the Fraudulent Mediums Act – I’m not sure that it can be tightened up. Its very name suggests that there are genuine mediums out there when the ability itself has yet to be scientifically established. But that’s a whole new discussion for a bright shiny new thread.:)
I notice that on Diane Lazarus's site, the policewoman is thanking Diane for assistance, support, time, and concern; but there's no mention that Diane actually led the police to the body or indeed that she did anything of real use. It's a carefully worded piece.
This whole issue of psychics “helping the police” is simply a misleading Argument to Authority.
The psychics are using the police as an infallible authority to lend weight to their claims. The first point to note is that the police are human. Jackie Malton, a former detective chief inspector, certainly showed that she is far from infallible for example.
Even if a police inspector did call in a psychic, it would not logically follow that the psychic was therefore genuine. The more likely conclusion would be that the inspector was mistaken. The police are an authority on police work – not psychic ability.
That’s the claim dealt with. I must say though, that the responses that Eddie has received indicate that the claims are coming from the psychics and not the police who seem to be uninterested in using psychics’ dubious “services”.
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While the police and the skeptics know the truth, the question remains what can be done to counter psychic spin so everyone else knows too?
Education holds the key........ Any plans to write an article based on your findings Eddie?
Hi Muse,
No plans just yet, since I want to collect all the responses from the Police Forces which write back. There's a thirty-day time limit during which police must respond under the Freedom of Information Act, so I'll have a better picture by the end of March. I also need to immerse myself in some further study of specific cases of 'psychic detection' in order to find out what actually happened, rather than what was claimed...
Cheers!
Eddie - I was hoping you'd say that* :)
Do you have any plans to look at Diane Lazarus?
If so, here’s a few articles that have appeared in the press about her claims since 2003. In addition to the usual clairvoyant stuff, she now runs a psychic detective agency describing herself as a 'psychic consultant'. She is assisted by former ex detective sergeant Peter Hall. I see she's even claimed to have helped the police with the Jill Dando murder.
Maybe worth looking into as she seems to be the new rising star of the psychic world and has been offered her own show on Five.
Psychic `sees' girl's murderer after more than 50 years
Apr 3 2003
http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100n...name_page.html
Psychic hears words of sex-shop killer
May 5 2004
http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100n...name_page.html
Lazarus returns to hear the dead
Jun 12 2004
http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100n...name_page.html
Things that go bonk in the night
Nov 6 2005
http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100n...name_page.html
Thanks for those Muse, I'll be checking out those links, as well as checking with Lazarus' website.
Meanwhile, I've just received a second, very interesting response from the Metropolitan Police. The Met has admitted to a psychic playing a major part in a murder inquiry, in the case of Thomas 'Ginger' Marks, who disappeared in 1965. According to the records in the National Archives, he was possibly shot in Bethnal Green, but the alleged murderers were acquitted.
The letter from the Met is below, in which they admit that the only case the Metropolitan Police can cite in which a psychic 'played a major part' remains unsolved after 41 years. What a surprise.
I have contacted the National Archives for further details of this case...
METROPOLITAN POLICE
Tue, 7 Mar 2006 16:30:32 +0000
Thank you for your recent enquiry concerning the use of psychics by the police. We have conducted a search of our indexes but have been unable to identify any relevant records relating to any official use of psychics. There is, however, a historical case where this played a major part. This case related to the disappearance of Thomas Alfred MARKS in 1965. The records relating to this case are now held by The National Archives at Kew under the references MEPO 2/10551 to MEPO 2/10558. The tape recording is under the last reference, MEPO 2/10558. This particular record is available but some parts of the record are closed as it remains an unsolved case. Enquiries regarding access to this record should be directed to The National Archives, whose catalogues can be accessed online at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk.
Yours sincerely
Andrew Brown, Assistant Departmental Record Officer
How very interesting - good luck with your research.
Further to Diane Lazarus - IcWales (see link below) is also reporting today, that she is apparently about to fly to Ireland, at the invitation of an Irish TV company to help find missing County Down man Martin Kelly and hopes to get her own show on home of the befuddled and confused, Living TV.
It seems that since coming top of the heap in BPC, she has become inundated with TV and radio offers as well as requests from the familes of missing persons. Am I alone in finding this very sad and disturbing?
Anyway - the Martin Kelly case may be worth following up.
Source Article
Well, well, well.
It looks like the case of Thomas ‘Ginger’ Marks, which was unsolved despite the use of a psychic, was a gangland hit:
http://www.madfrankiefraser.co.uk/fr....htm~mainFrame
According to ‘Mad’ Frankie Fraser, Freddie Foreman killed Marks after abducting him outside Repton Boys Club. Apparently, Foreman now admits to killing Marks, assisted by the capable hands of Alfie Gerard.
Bearing in mind that the psychic interviewed by the police failed to solve the case, I shall tentatively conclude that the scoreline is as follows:
Psychics - 0
Eddie - 1
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