"non-evasive psychic surgery"

[mahakala]

Ah yes.

The fact that millions of times each year people rub the lotion traumeel into their strained muscles and get relief, is based on a delusion.

The fact that the head coach of the French football team prefers homeopathy for quick and immediate relief of strains, is based on a delusion.

The relief many individuals, especially women, get from sarsparilla for urinary tract infections, is based on a delusion.

The relief many children get for chicken pox from taking rhus tox, is based on a delusion.

etc. etc. etc.

Funny how people will deny the evidence when it is staring them right in the face.

I suggest a trial. One hundred and fifty skeptics. Each will be hit with a hammer until bruised. 50 will be immediately be treated with Arnica, 50 with sugar water, 50 with nothing at all.

[mahakala]

Amoxicillin works whether you believe it or not...

Nobody says it doesn't.

That's not the point.

[mahakala]

That's not really a problem, since people's beliefs don't make them well.

Think carefully about what you just said.

And whether that is really what you believe.

[mahakala]

Planes into skyscrapers, the inquisition, Waco, the odd person killed by an exorcisim gone wrong and the odd person who dies from cancer because some woo medical practice does not work. just to name a few. Belief does plenty of harm.

When was the last war fought over Scepticism or Athieism?

The world would be a better place without baseless belief in all its guises.

Homeopathy is not a baseless belief. It is based on evidence.

Sorry you don't trust yourself enough to believe in what you can test for yourself, but rather need other people to "prove it for you."

You kind of remind me of the guy on another discussion group who says homeopathy is bunk, but takes a homeopathic sea sickness preparation whenever he goes boating, "because it works everytime."

Such independent thinkers you sceptics.

[chillzero]

Ah yes.

The fact that millions of times each year people rub the lotion traumeel into their strained muscles and get relief, is based on a delusion.

No, it's based on the fact that rubbing strained muscles - with any lubricant - is beneficial by increasing circulation and often raising the temperature.

The fact that the head coach of the French football team prefers homeopathy for quick and immediate relief of strains, is based on a delusion.

Yes. Yes it is, because there is no scientific evidence that hompeopathy does anything at all above the placebo effect.

The relief many individuals, especially women, get from sarsparilla for urinary tract infections, is based on a delusion.

No, it's based on the fact that many fluids will assist with UTIs, particularly sharper ones such as sarsaparilla, and cranberry.

The relief many children get for chicken pox from taking rhus tox, is based on a delusion.

I can't comment on this one as it is new to me. I am sure one of the other members will enlighten us shortly.

etc. etc. etc.

Funny how people will deny the evidence when it is staring them right in the face.

Yes. I am regularly amazed by the amount of people still bought into homeopathy when it has clearly been scientifically shown to be ineffective.

Nobody says it doesn't.

That's not the point.

That was entirely the point. Medicines work whether people believe they will or not. They hold up under scientific trials and testing. Homeopathic remedies do not.

[chillzero]

Homeopathy is not a baseless belief. It is based on evidence.

What evidence? Please show it.

[mahakala]

No, go out and find the evidence for yourself.

Because it is there.

The internet cowboys on this site have not done that.

Often they are like the guy in the weather channel joke.

On their TV it says it is a nice sunny day.

They walk outside and it is pouring rain.

Who do you believe?

The authority on TV?

Or your own wet head?

[Mongrel]

Ah yes.

The fact that millions of times each year people rub the lotion traumeel into their strained muscles and get relief, is based on a delusion.

The mere act of rubbing can help a strained muscle

The fact that the head coach of the French football team prefers homeopathy for quick and immediate relief of strains, is based on a delusion.

Yep - I'd rather get my advice from medically trained professionals.

The relief many individuals, especially women, get from sarsparilla for urinary tract infections, is based on a delusion.

Drinking lots of fluid will always help with a UTI anyway and given that it's mildly diuretic in nature. But checking the literature "Practical Guide to Natural Medicines" by the American Pharmacists Association gives it a score of 4 - Research indicates that this substance will not fulfill claims made for it, but it is also unlikely to cause harm. Easier to stick to cranberry juice (which is backed by evidence) or pop to the chemists for a couple of sachets of potassium citrate.

The relief many children get for chicken pox from taking rhus tox, is based on a delusion.

Yep - probably due to observer bias and "getting Moms' attention"

Funny how people will deny the evidence when it is staring them right in the face.

Funny how some people insist anecdotes are Evidence

I suggest a trial. One hundred and fifty skeptics. Each will be hit with a hammer until bruised. 50 will be immediately be treated with Arnica, 50 with sugar water, 50 with nothing at all.

So no individualisation? Or was that going to be Standby excuse #1?

Trials have been done. Homeopathy has yet to show any significant clinical effect.

[chillzero]

No, go out and find the evidence for yourself.

Because it is there.

The internet cowboys on this site have not done that.

I don't have the scientific knowledge or the respources to undertake testing that has been done already by experts. Even if I do undertake to prove something myself, I will still be open to evidence that I have been mistaken, or fooled from someone who does have that expertise.

I would never be so foolish as to believe it is sunny when clearly the water is pouring down my face, yet it seems to me that this is what proponents of homeopathy continue to do. The scientific evidence is there to show it is ineffective,and yet they ignore it and continue to push it.

I take it that you mean you have no evidence to provide, then?

[mahakala]

It is sad, in a world where chronic ailments are on the increase, despite the increasing sophistication of medicine.

It is sad, in a world where side effects from medications are rampant.

It is sad, in a world where pharmaceutical conglomerates are busy trying to force feed their expensive products to the populace.

It is sad, in a world resistance to antibiotics is increasing because of overuse.

It is sad, in a world where a million anti-depressents are prescribed each day.

It is sad, in a world where ecological and economic considerations in healthcare are at crisis level.

It is sad, in a world where "authorities" in religion and politics and business have been proven so corrupt and destructive.

It is sad, that a few internet groupies have got nothing better to do than attack those individuals attempting to right some of the aforementioned wrongs, by offering alternatives.

It is sad, that the same few have such a little regard for other humans that they can declare that millions of experiences of having been helped by homeopathy, are delusionary.

Who is rational? Who is irrational?

Who is hiding their mean-spirited, narrow-mindedness behind a mask of rationality, of scepticism?

Who is really thinking for themselves?

[bobdezon]

Instead of telling everyone how wonderful homeopathy is, why dont you spend you time proving it with facts that you supply instead of your opinion based on your belief? I mean you are really making yourself look foolish.

[mahakala]

I don't have the scientific knowledge or the respources to undertake testing that has been done already by experts. Even if I do undertake to prove something myself, I will still be open to evidence that I have been mistaken, or fooled from someone who does have that expertise.

I would never be so foolish as to believe it is sunny when clearly the water is pouring down my face, yet it seems to me that this is what proponents of homeopathy continue to do. The scientific evidence is there to show it is ineffective,and yet they ignore it and continue to push it.

I take it that you mean you have no evidence to provide, then?

I have lots of evidence. It is called experience. And you can contact millions of people world wide who accept that as evidence. Because in the end it makes not one whit of difference in medicine why something work, only if it does. In the end that is all most patients care about. And so that is where patient will look for their evidence.

Did you know that the former editor of Lancet recently was interviewd by the CBC national anchorman and stated that medical journals and the testing of pharmaceutical products are always manipulated to prove the desired outcome. Do you think mayne that has some bearing on the arguement?

[mahakala]

Instead of telling everyone how wonderful homeopathy is, why dont you spend you time proving it with facts that you supply instead of your opinion based on your belief? I mean you are really making yourself look foolish.

No you are a fool. Because a fool denies their own experience.

And I see from above that most of you don't even know anything about homeopathy. When I mentioned sarsparilla, you argued the material dilution. Nobody uses material dilutions in homeopathy.

[mahakala]

But never mind.

Argueing with people without knowledge is indeed a fool's game.

[chillzero]

It is sad, in a world where chronic ailments are on the increase, despite the increasing sophistication of medicine.

It is sad, in a world where side effects from medications are rampant.

It is sad, in a world where pharmaceutical conglomerates are busy trying to force feed their expensive products to the populace.

It is sad, in a world resistance to antibiotics is increasing because of overuse.

It is sad, in a world where a million anti-depressents are prescribed each day.

It is sad, in a world where ecological and economic considerations in healthcare are at crisis level.

It is sad, in a world where "authorities" in religion and politics and business have been proven so corrupt and destructive.

'It' is sad? What exactly is sad?
In my opinion, it is sad that anti-depressants and antibiotics have indeed been so overused as to contribute to the rise of diseases and the inability to treat them effectively.

It is sad, that a few internet groupies have got nothing better to do than attack those individuals attempting to right some of the aforementioned wrongs, by offering alternatives.

There is nothing wrong with offering alternatives - if they actually work. What we would attack is anyone profiting from the use of inneffective 'remedies', and the targetting of people who have nowhere else to turn.

It is sad, that the same few have such a little regard for other humans that they can declare that millions of experiences of having been helped by homeopathy, are delusionary.

In this aspect of your argument it is beyond sad, it is reprehensible that people have such little regard for other humans that they peddle sugar pills and water, for their own profit.

Who is rational? Who is irrational?

It is irrational to continue to promote inneffective sugar pills and water.

Who is hiding their mean-spirited, narrow-mindedness behind a mask of rationality, of scepticism?

You are.

Who is really thinking for themselves?

Hopefully, many people who can review the information and evidence provided by qualified people, and weigh it against the lack of evidence brought forward by someone like yourself. Still no evidence to supply?