"non-evasive psychic surgery"

[blindwatchmaker]

What a great shame.

I'm sure nobody here will be surprised that you've failed to answer the questions asked of you. (You have no answers)

Ultimately you have to live with yourself Gary.

That is, if you have any kind of conscience at all.

By the way, have you been in touch with Prof. French at Goldsmiths yet to arrange the scientific testing which you agreed to?
(I assume you know there's a million dollars in it for you right?
All you have to do is show that you can do what you say you can.)
Incase you're struggling, the number is 0207 919 7871

What odds can we get around here that the good Prof never gets the call?

[Admin]

I would like to make it clear to everyone that I fully believe and back Psychic Surgery.

I know it works and my clients and I have seen the result of it.

I am not deluded or trying to con anyone.

I do Psychic Surgery because I want to help people and yes I make no claims because for legal reasons I can not claim - Yet I fully believe that Psychic Surgery works (just don't claim it).

Remember this?




That's a perfect example of the sleight-of-hand used used in fake psychic surgery. You're simply curling the fingers of your right hand round and hiding the deception with your left hand: like all the other fakes do.

You're too savvy to be genuinely deluded Gary. If you were naively making the claims you do (like believing that you can cure cancer) I would give you the benefit of the doubt; but you seem to have this set up like a well-oiled business machine. You know exactly what you're up to and how to go about it.

You say you 'believe' that you can cure cancer but can't claim it for legal reasons, you qualify whatever you do claim by saying "that's only my opinion", you charge for your time not the service (an old ruse of phony psychics), so it seems that you know how to make bogus claims yet stay (for now) just the right side of the law.

So, a well-meaning but deluded individual or a charlatan who knows exactly how to go about exploiting the vulnerable?

I know what I think.

[Mojo]

The reason I choose not to post on this site is because everyone has done nothing but attacked anything I or anyone else in support of alternative treatments has said. Instead of looking at both sides of the arguments. Even going as far as to believe things that aren't true without evidence, like the comment posted about me being banned from Harrow Spiritualist church and other churches (thank you to whoever posted the comment from HarrowSpiritualistChurch stating that I am not banned from there)

Some of you have visited spirit love forums which I answer questions put to me by believers and sceptics to the best of my ability. I answer because people ask the questions and read the responses, they don't just attack everything I say.

People on this forum have even gone as far as to Harass people I have worked with in the past and centres that I am currently working at. Then you ask why I don't comment or give details any more.

I have nothing to prove to people like that. That is why this is the last comment I will be making on here.

I thought he was supposed to be "non-evasive".

BTW, why does he feel it necessary to include colour tags specifying that his text displays as black on each individual paragraph (and, indeed, on each word in the title "Harrow Spiritualist Church")?

And why can't we have the colour tags spelled properly, with a u? This is UK Skeptics, goddamnit!

[chillzero]

I am not deluded or trying to con anyone.

As a previous believer, I can only point out that when a person is deluded, they are unaware of this fact. If they were aware of it, they are no longer deluded.

I do Psychic Surgery because I want to help people and yes I make no claims because for legal reasons I can not claim - Yet I fully believe that Psychic Surgery works (just don't claim it).

It's not a sign of good character to admittedly and fraudulently sidestep the law in this manner.

The reason I choose not to post on this site is because everyone has done nothing but attacked anything I or anyone else in support of alternative treatments has said. Instead of looking at both sides of the arguments.

You haven't read this site carefully enough then. Some of us have been on both sides of the argument, and understand them both very well. I myself used to be a healer, and I used massage, reflexology, reiki and energy healing on my clients. All I have seen is people trying to clarify details that are unclear, and you have not helped provide any answers, or clarify things that would actually boost your case - if you were being honest.

Even going as far as to believe things that aren't true without evidence, like the comment posted about me being banned from Harrow Spiritualist church and other churches (thank you to whoever posted the comment from

HarrowSpiritualistChurch stating that I am not banned from there)

We have a member trying to check up information like this - without assistance, as I mentioned.

Some of you have visited spirit love forums which I answer questions put to me by believers and sceptics to the best of my ability. I answer because people ask the questions and read the responses, they don't just attack everything I say.

People on this forum have even gone as far as to Harass people I have worked with in the past and centres that I am currently working at. Then you ask why I don't comment or give details any more.

I have nothing to prove to people like that. That is why this is the last comment I will be making on here.

Yes, it's nicer to stay in the comfort zone of those who already believe you.

And Lastly for those who are so worried about my tax I have an accountant, everyone I see is given a receipt so that is fine thank you for your concern

A receipt? For a 'gift'? Which is it - either you make no claims, and therefore claim no wage, or people can choose to give you gifts, which require no receipts. I know a bit about dodging this kind of law also, I'm ashamed to admit, although I never fully went into business once I realised where my delusions about spirituality lay.

Interesting finish.

[Cuddles]

going as far as to believe things that aren't true without evidence

The irony! It burns!

[Matt]

I would like to make it clear to everyone that I fully believe and back Psychic Surgery.

I know it works and my clients and I have seen the result of it.

I am not deluded or trying to con anyone.

I do Psychic Surgery because I want to help people and yes I make no claims because for legal reasons I can not claim - Yet I fully believe that Psychic Surgery works (just don't claim it).

Gary,

I'm not attacking you, I'm just hoping to understand further. As such I hope you feel you can respond to me.

You know psychic surgery works because you've seen positive results. Thats good it's empirical evidence. The only type that matters to me. Please Let me explain how someone else who might be deluded into thinking their healing technique might accidentally come to the same conclusion and what they could do to make sure.

This person applies their healing technique to hundreds of people. Some of them would have got better without the technique. They uncritically attribute their recovery to the technique based upon personal experience. Some of them report back to you that the technique works.

Others do not get better. They on the other hand do not report back to you.

Not only might this happen but it has been proven that it is very likely. You may think that those who do not recover would be the first to complain. Complain they will, only not to the practitioner, they want nothing to do with her, she's just a reminder of how they were ripped off.

The practitioner knows nothing of this. Patients who don't come back, she reasons, must have been cured.

This form of confirmation bias could make a person who is actually providing nothing more than a placebo genuinely believe that they are delivering a service of supernatural benefit.

In discussions with a skeptic this person is made aware of confirmation bias and so takes steps to circumvent the issue. If their technique works they wants better proof of it, and (though she's disinclined to suspect the possibility) if her technique doesn't work then she's like to know that too.

What does she do. One thing she could do is a follow up study. Each patient is invited to fill in a form with providing their contact details, their doctors details and permission to request information regarding the treatment from the doctor.

She also keeps her own records:

We end up with detailed records

Did patient arrive with a diagnoses from a doctor?
Did patient directly inform you of the doctors diagnoses?
Did you make an independent diagnoses?
Did the doctor make a later diagnoses?
Does your diagnoses and the doctor's diagnoses tally?
Did the doctor provide conventional treatment for the ailment
Did the patient complete the conventional course of treatment.
What was the doctor's expected prognoses?
Was the result six months after psychic surgery better or worse than expected by the doctor?

She might find that she particularly successful with lower back problems but not so hot with migraines. Useful information. She might find that despite glowing anecdotal evidence most people simply get better when their doctors expect them to get better, a few faster, a few slower. Most worrying of all she might find out that a her patients relying on her treatments use them as an alternative to conventional medicine and failing to complete the doctor's prescribed treatment don't get better as quickly as would otherwise be anticipated.

Whatever she finds out, it's worth knowing.

The same principle is applied to conventional medicine. Sometimes the full details of how the treatment works are unknown. Last year I took a course of zyban to assist in quitting smoking. They don't fully know how this helps quitting, (something to do with blocking receptors they think) all they know for certain is the percentage of those smokers who are prescribed the medication as part of an attempt to quit, who are still quit six months later as compared to the percentage who stay quit after quitting on will power alone. That's not anecdotal evidence - they sent me a form to fill in to report back to them and have recently pestered me again when ashamed of my lapse I didn't fill it in. I know that provisionally they're counting me as a failure because I didn't answer.

Now you say you know that psychic surgery works. Well as I hope you can see from these examples, there's knowing and then there's knowing.

So I would be grateful if you would let me know what steps you have taken to quantify your success rate and if you would be interested in pursuing further avenues to solidify the evidence base for your treatments.

[Matt]

BTW, why does he feel it necessary to include colour tags specifying that his text displays as black on each individual paragraph (and, indeed, on each word in the title "Harrow Spiritualist Church")?

I suspect this is the result of copying and pasting from a Word Processor for the purposes of Spell Checking. I for one have no complaints.

[Julia]

Gary,

You really need to learn the difference between "harassment" and "checking up on someone's outlandish claims", such as your professional relationship with Dr Gowri Motha - yes, the same Dr Motha who told me that:

"I will ask him to refrain from using my name in his future talks as I was only investigating his talents at the time that I have known him."

"I do share your concerns about his extravagant claims.
I have yet to be impressed by him."

I get the impression that during your brief career you've had little or no experience of not being taken at face value. The people who attend events like your show at St James' on Monday night don't go in a spirit of enquiry, they go to have their minds boggled. It's just unfortunate for you that an advertising pamphlet from a shop in St Albans was picked up by a member of this site and brought to the attention of a wider and much better-informed audience.

Also, you seem to have missed the fact that it was ME who got in touch with Harrow Spiritualist Church to ask them about a rumour that you'd been thrown out. We know now that this wasn't the case and I was happy to put their response online.

Gary, if you really want to get yourself out of this mess it would help if you gave us some straight answers to the following questions:

Who is Manesh Naidoo? Because I can't trace anyone of that name.

Can you provided us with evidence that Mr Rodger Andrews' terminal cancer disappeared two days after your treatment? By evidence I mean depositions from the hospital/specialist involved, not another testimonial from Mr Andrews himself.

On what evidence do you base two bizarre claims you made on Monday night - that the oranges we buy in the shops are injected with arsenic and that a dog lived for nine years after having its blood replaced with sea water? And do you have any idea how barking mad such statements make you sound?

[Julia]

Oops - I forgot to mention "Brain Gym", which you used in your last workshop. Do you know that it's a copyrighted technique? Because your name isn't on their register of accredited instructors.

[Mojo]

I suspect this is the result of copying and pasting from a Word Processor for the purposes of Spell Checking. I for one have no complaints.

Would that really add the tags "[color=black][/color]" to the text at the start and end of each paragraph and for each word of "HarrowSpiritualistChurch"? I've noticed that bizarre and unnecessary formatting of posts is characteristic of certain types of troll; with woos it's generally problems with spelling and punctuation.

[dalriada]

I've noticed that bizarre and unnecessary formatting of posts is characteristic of certain types of troll; with woos it's generally problems with spelling and punctuation.

This is very true. I was at an Society for Psychical Research lecture the other evening given by an automatic writing medium who presented two messages from separate spirits. As the scripts were passed around an audience member thoughtfully pointed out that the two messages contained the same spelling mistake. Ironically for someone who makes a living chanelling such messages, the mispelled word was "writing"...



I felt for her...

[Mongrel]

Would that really add the tags "[color=black][/color]" to the text at the start and end of each paragraph and for each word of "HarrowSpiritualistChurch"? I've noticed that bizarre and unnecessary formatting of posts is characteristic of certain types of troll; with woos it's generally problems with spelling and punctuation.

Depends, on the JREF if you cut and paste from a text editor into the WYSIWYG editor it'll add the unnecessary tags.

[Julia]

At last! I've finally succeded in getting a reply from Northwick Park Hospital. Manesh Naidoo is NOT Head of Physiotherapy and no-one with that or a similar name has held the postion in recent years.

Your nose must be getting longer and longer, Gary!

[bindeweede]

At last! I've finally succeded in getting a reply from Northwick Park Hospital. Manesh Naidoo is NOT Head of Physiotherapy and no-one with that or a similar name has held the postion in recent years.

Your nose must be getting longer and longer, Gary!

Julia,

Well-done again for persevering, although I don't think many of us will be surprised at your news.

Is it worth putting together a summary of Gary's claims?

Dr Gowri Motha said "I do share your concerns about his extravagant claims.
I have yet to be impressed by him."

Manesh Naidoo has had no connection with Northwick Park Hospital. In fact it seems unlikely that that person exists.

There doesn't appear to be a "Dr Glen Davies" on the GMC's List of Registered Medical Practitioners.

Gary's claim to have worked at the House of Commons has not been confirmed.

He has no medical qualifications.

He has not clarified what training/qualifications he has in hypnotherapy.

His claim to offer Brain Gym has been removed.

He established the ABE System of healing, but does not claim to heal anyone - he just charges for his time.

Have I missed anything?

Apart from the "odd" things he said at St James's church.

It all adds up to quite a profile, and the Church of England allows him to promote himelf in one of its buildings. Wonderful.

[bindeweede]

Gary also claims to have appeared on TV. Well, a lot of us have - the Closed Circuit kind. However, here is the latest teaser from himself from Spiritlove.

Lol as far as tv, I will say wait and see don't want to spoil anything, however I will say the scientific evidence the sceptics all want may soon be seen :-D

I'm hoping this is not simply the video of his performance last week at St James's Church, Piccadilly.