Should state funded schools in the UK be entirely secular, IE the removal of praying, grace, preaching etc?
If you agree with this there's a petition here http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Secular-Schools/ and a Facebook group called Campaign for Secular State Schooling
If you do or if you don't agree, let's hear the arguments
MA
Not another bleeding petition in this subject. Oh well now I've signed this one too. I might as well pray to the flying spaghetti monster for all the good it's likely to do.Originally Posted by MoralAtheist
Should state funded schools in the UK be entirely secular, IE the removal of praying, grace, preaching etc?
If you agree with this there's a petition here http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Secular-Schools/ and a Facebook group called Campaign for Secular State Schooling
If you do or if you don't agree, let's hear the arguments
MA
You might be better off seeking for state funding for Pastafarian schools ...
I'll join the Facebook group, just to show solidarity.
Anyone else in the National Secular Society?
No. BHA member.
Years ago, I became Head of Year at my school. That involved taking Morning Assemblies. I made it clear to the Head, an active Christian (I might have used the word "rampant"), that I would not, under any circumstances, lead an "act of collective worship", as dictated by the Conservative Government, at that time. I tried to present moral, thoughtful Assemblies.
In my opinion, religious worship should be kept to churches, synagogues, temples and mosques.
And while I have a chance to edit this, any teaching of religious beliefs should include the opt-out options - atheism, humanism etc.
We all need more people like you, sir!
Way back when I was a prefect at school 8), you had to do readings at assembly. I remember not reading out a couple of lines at the end of the text which was always the religious morality bit. It would have rendered it meaningless, but no one noticed or mentioned it. That proved to me that absolutely no one was listening or interested in religious morality tales at morning assembly!
FIGHT !!!
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php...=NSS&word2=BHA
You lose...
In my humble opinion religion is or should be a personal thing and either practiced at home like meditation or with groups of like-minded people in churches, chapels and temples. I don’t sign petitions, but I agree that religion doesn’t belong in schools today.
Thats really what secularists aim for - if people want to be religious, they are entitled to believe in what they want. However there isn't a place for religion in public establishments and there shouldn't be any religious privilege, and there should be a clear separation between state and church.
The NSS do a very good weekly email every Friday which I think you can sign up for even if you aren't a member. Some of the stuff they expose is frightening - the amount of privilege that religion gets in this country.
"Some of the stuff they expose is frightening - the amount of privilege that religion gets in this country."
Think I just might go check that out. Not into religion and especially not into some getting special privileges over others.
I can't access the site at work as paradoxically it is barred as it is in the category 'Religion', but if you find the site for National Secular Society, and then look for Newsline I think, that lets you access it online. And I think you can also register to get it emailed each week.
The stuff that bugs me the most, is how much taxpayers money goes to the church, the amount spent on chaplins in the NHS, the bishops in the House of Lords, the BA cruxifix and the schoolgirl chastity ring, faith schools, in fact quite a lot of things .....
In my mind, the NSS is very good at highlighting the real issue in these sorts of cases without prejudice.
I'm all for a secular country, but chaplains in the NHS are a little different. They are not exclusively from one religion and no matter what religion any chaplain happens to be, they are there for everyone. More importantly, people of all religions actually meet with them and appreciate them being there.
I see chaplains as similar to old coutry vicars. Although they belong to a certain religion, everyone is free to talk to them for advice, whether spiritual, moral, personal or whatever, and people from all religions do so. One of the big complaints people have against the NHS is that doctors don't have time to just talk with patients. That is what the chaplain does, and I think it would be a shame to get rid of them just because of religious issues in other areas.
I think you do have a point, but personally I would rather they paid for a couple of extra nurses or other medical resources as opposed to a chaplain. If the church(es) think it is worthwhile, I would rather they paid to maintain chaplains. I think the salaries quoted below are rather high for the service they provide.
I think a valid secular viewpoint is to let the service continue - but not from public funds. They are representives of the church, and that is who should pay for them.
http://www.secularism.org.uk/atlasth...intheline.html
[quote] At Last – Hospital Chaplains in the Line for the Chop</H1>
Hospital chaplains – who are paid out of scarce NHS resources – are being threatened with cuts in hours, according the trades union Amicus.
The union, which represented The Professional College of Health Care Chaplains believes that out-of-hours chaplaincy services are under threat as new job evaluation and pay schemes left several local health trusts with budgetary deficits. The rules are being changed so that chaplains will be paid when they are on call, but Amicus says some trusts are trying to circumvent this by keeping them off duty.
Carol English, Amicus’ officer for health sector clergy, said the situation was “serious” and some NHS trusts had identified chaplains as a soft target for cuts.
As NHS employees, chaplains have always been paid. An average chaplain’s salary ranges from £26,000 to £35,000. When on call, chaplains are paid 9% of their salary and if called out are paid time and a half.
Keith Porteous Wood of the National Secular Society said: “It is about time this waste of NHS resources was looked at. The number of people wanting the services of chaplains in hospital must be tiny, but they gobble up millions of pounds every year. Chaplains – if they are paid at all, and we don’t see why they should be – should be paid on an hourly basis and only sent for when patients specifically request them. While hospitals struggle to find the money for essential equipment like scanners and when wards are closed because of cost-cutting, there can be no excuse to continue pouring money into the pocket of the church in this way.”
I disagree. My father was a hospital chaplain for many years, and I know a bit about the work they do.
Basically, their role is to help all patients and their relatives (of any religion, or of none at all) come to terms with the personal challenges which may arise out of medical treatment. Obviously, these challenges often involve life-changing decisions, and/or dealing with death.
I think that this type of support is a necessary part of what the NHS does. It is not appropriate simply to treat the condition while ignoring the impact on the person. Nurses are too busy, and not appropriately trained, to deliver this kind of support.
One could reasonably argue that this type of work could be done just as effectively by secular counsellors, but I don't think it would be good simply to reallocate the money to medical care and ignore the patient's need for personal support completely.
Because chaplaincy support is offered to all patients regardless of their religion, I don't think you can consider the chaplain to be operating in his/her capacity as a "representative of the church" while carrying out this work. In my opinion, they are representatives of the NHS carrying out a necessary aspect of NHS care - and consequently it is appropriate for them to be paid by the NHS.
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