Fraudulent Mediums

[lara123]

Yes but you are forgetting that considering the nature of the belief in woo. It has to be true, because if not it destroys the dream. Some dedicate their lives to this belief and they believe it gives them peace, or strength or some greater understanding of the universe. You show them it is a lie they mentally collapse. They simply cannot accept that what they once belived wasnt 100% real and true. If they accept that, it casts doubt on everything they hold to be true.

I recently tried to start a discussing with a believer on sylvia brown and asked what do you think about her getting the case of the missing child wrong.Nope,she would'nt take it futher with me,still believed in the glory of sylvia brown.I found it incredible.Despite proof S.B had got it wrong,so so wrong, she still admired her.

But i believe there are some people out there who have had proof.Real proof.They cannot prove this to others so they dont need to look no further to see if its a lie.A lot of skeptics may tell them different but if they've experienced something incredible,they know it,and they know the afterlife exists.

[lara123]

I've always felt the 'love and light' forums are build on a house of cards. It is essential to the survival of these and the ideas propagated, that no criticism is tolerated.

Only by acting as full of respect for each other's views, no matter what sort of ideas and theories are suggested, do these forums continue to exist. I think that's why you see so many interpretations of what constitutes mediumship/psychicness. People are free to build their own interpretations of things, which as they go unchallenged, become that person's belief system.

That's why skeptics are just not tolerated - and even gentle questioning is considered hostile and the 'love and light' mantra is repeated ad nauseum among the believers to ensure they all keep to script.

Ahh..im not doing too bad,ive criticised,praagh,brown and the psychic/mediumship process.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

I recently tried to start a discussing with a believer on sylvia brown and asked what do you think about her getting the case of the missing child wrong.Nope,she would'nt take it futher with me,still believed in the glory of sylvia brown.I found it incredible.Despite proof S.B had got it wrong,so so wrong, she still admired her.



But i believe there are some people out there who have had proof.Real proof.They cannot prove this to others so they dont need to look no further to see if its a lie.A lot of skeptics may tell them different but if they've experienced something incredible,they know it,and they know the afterlife exists.





It's human nature. A psychologist could probably talk for hours on the subject, but people just don't like to be proved wrong. Especially when they've invested so much of their life into something.

That's the most difficult thing about being a skeptic - admitting something you believe or believed is wrong. For instance, only recently did I find out that the old myth about glass being thicker at the bottom than the top because it flows, was complete nonsense. I still have trouble 'forgetting' that glass flows.

I don't have the source, but I remember reading recently about a study that showed that a large proportion of people continue to believe something they thought was true, even though they have been told it wasn't.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

Ahh..im not doing too bad,ive criticised,praagh,brown and the psychic/mediumship process.


Yes, I reckon about 1% of your genetic makeup is skepticism now 8)

[lara123]

Mr.Farside,i was skeptical before it happened to me,i have said that before.I am skeptical of many psychics claims.I am now very skeptical of praagh.

Skeptics i do not dislike.The wording of some i do dislike.But the general principle of what you are doing i agree with.

But i really do know im psychic.;)

[lara123]

and that general principle being..to offer alternative explanations,to offer evidence thats suggests some psychics/mediums are fraudulant.Nothing wrong with that now.

I would just like some to think twice before they write and assume maybe,just maybe,that it could be true what they are saying,dont hang us all for our claims if you can't know for sure.

Anyway,christmas is coming,lets be happy.:cheesy:

[MischiefMonkey]

Mr.Farside,i was skeptical before it happened to me,i have said that before.I am skeptical of many psychics claims.I am now very skeptical of praagh.

Skeptics i do not dislike.The wording of some i do dislike.But the general principle of what you are doing i agree with.

But i really do know im psychic.;)

But what happened to you could have a totally non-psychic explanation.

You experienced something and put a meaning to it without critically exploring all possible explanations. Much as I did when I believed.

You have seen 'spirit'. Or you have hallucinated, or had your brain take partial sensory input and make an image of it.

You can look at the evidence and conclude that something non-paranormal occured. Or you can continue to support your own belief system despite the evidence.

I can't persuade you either way, but I hope you would explore all possibilities as I eventually did.

[Nasib]

But Mischief Monkey, I DID explore all possibilities on the occasion that I first saw spirit, that of my mother, long deceased. I have written about this on another thread (Fake vs Real Mediums). In the build-up to my mother appearing many other strange things had been occuring but it was that incident that took me to a medium as I had felt that there must have been a "reason" for her to come to me in that way,and to be honest I had thought the reason was that I was soon to be joining her!
I had already witnessed 2 years previously my aunt (her sister) who had suffered a stroke after an op in hospital, had been 3 months in the hosp where we visited every day. Although most of the time aware that we were there, her speech was very slurred & was very difficult to make out what she was trying to communicate to us. 2 days before she died she suddenly exclaimed, perfectly lucidly "oh there's Eily (my mum)", looking to the side of her bed. I said no, mum's not here, but she insisted very determinedly and again with very clear speech, "yes she IS there, look" and then a huge smile came across her face (a face that had been numbed through stroke). Her husband (my uncle) had also the night before he died, many years before that, insisted that a relative long gone had come to visit him the night before and told him he would be coming back the next night. Need I say .. that was the night he died.

So, when I went to this medium for a sitting, not knowing anything about me whatsoever ... I was simply someone who had come to him for a reading, whatever he may have told me if he hadn't mentioned the fact that I had seen my mother I would have gone away perhaps still questioning, maybe would've tried another medium, I don't know, but as it turned out was not necessary because not only did she come through immediately, very close and very strongly, (the medium delivered her long message through hearing her words) but confirmed also that I had seen her, and that I would see many, many more spirit people (which has happened) as now was the time for my mediumship to develop.
I since had sittings with various other mediums, not connected or known to this one - and received the VERY SAME MESSAGE on each occasion. It is my path in life for this to be.

Now in development there is NO QUESTION whatsoever that I am hallucinating, delusional, or imagining anything whatsoever when I tune in and know that I am connected with my guides and receive very clear communication from passed loved ones of complete strangers to me with specific (validated) messages to pass on to them.
I didn't ASK for this to happen to me, it's happened. I've no intention of going into any sort of business, to charge anyone for readings. I simply want to continue with my development, and eventually to go on to run development classes myself for people who find themselves in the same situation as me. I will never stop questioning and looking at everything from as many angles as are possible, but my answers are coming through my own experiences, and the experience of every individual is different.

[bobdezon]

But Mischief Monkey, I DID explore all possibilities on the occasion that I first saw spirit, that of my mother, long deceased.

Did you explore the possibility of a grief hallucination?

http://tinyurl.com/22qtg2

[Nasib]

Did you explore the possibility of a grief hallucination?

http://tinyurl.com/22qtg2

Well yes, that could have been a possibility - but considering my mother had been dead 20 years.My father also - and with numerous relatives having passed over the ensuing years.

[bobdezon]

Grief is a strange beast though. You may have had unresolved issues with your mother which may have surfaced at a later date as a grief hallucination. It may be a subconscious desire to just see her one more time or anything. You must admit it is a distinct possbility.

As it is it is one possibility you did not consider, probably because you were unaware such a phenomena existed. Who can blame you for not knowing something so obscure?

[seren]

When my partner's grandfather was dying, he saw tigers in his hospital ward and hallucinated that the TV was on and showing a football match. But that's an anecdote which I can't verify so I wouldn't use it to defend my belief in spirit-footballers, if I had one, and I wouldn't expect it to convince anyone else.

You begin your post by stating that you did consider all the possibilities, but your post doesn't elaborate on what possibilities you have considered. It just lists events. Can you tell us some of the alternative explanations you considered?

For example, it's quite well known that as we get older it's the memories from when we are young that become strongest. Combine that with being on the point of death (which I think I'm not wrong in classifying as "very ill") and I would expect visions of people from the past.

As to your last point,


my answers are coming through my own experiences, and the experience of every individual is different.

I might as well say in my experience the spirit would doesn't exist. So you've learned from your experience and I've learned from mine, and we've both come to opposite conclusions. So who is right? We can't both be right. This is why experience is not good enough.

The unfortunate fact is that your own experience, or my own experience, just isn't enough to tell us everything about the world. If someone else hadn't worked it out, I probably would think the earth was flat. It looks flat. My experience tells me it's flat. When I walk or drive around I can't see it curving. There are hundreds of clever optical illusions which confound my "experience"- playing on the shortcomings of our vision. In my experience, Criss Angel can walk on water and Uri Gellar can bend spoons with just his mind. In my experience.

OK, bit of a potted biogaphy below, but I'm illustrating a point!

I have never been a big "believer", but I had my share of wooish beliefs which went hand in hand with a kind of green/environmental anti-establishment worldview. In the last couple of years, I began to pick apart my own beliefs. I began really digging away at my thoughts, examining them. I didn't allow myself to think of an "opinion" or come to a conclusion without questioning what assumptions I had made and why, and if it was justified. I had to be pretty critical of myself and recognise a lot of my flaws to do it. Slowly I realised that I had been living in a bubble of my own making, only reading about things which backed up my belief and getting angry and defensive when I saw or heard things that opposed it. Much of what I now think, the younger me would have been horrified at. But she didn't know what she was talking about, frankly. It's not been easy, and sometimes I am still not sure who I am, because I can remember my old convictions and justification for them, and a lot of them (animal rights is one) I struggle with because I see and appreciate both sides now.

I sometimes lurk on an atheist board called Internet Infidels, which is full of stories of people, particularly Christians, becoming atheist. Someone on there pointed out that it was never the string of logical reasons, none of the huge long rambling debates about whether god exists or not, that ever made these people lose faith. It was almost always ultimately themselves. More specifically, themselves questioning the very things they held most dear.

It doesn't matter how many other people try to offer you reasons why your beliefs might be incorrect, it's actually you that has to work through it on your own, if you want to. That old saying about you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Or I can only show you the door, it's you that has to walk through it. At some point I decided to turn my certainties into questions, but nobody could make me do that but me. Maybe you never will; that is up to you.

When I started doubting myself, I became more open minded, not less. Because now whenever something happens, I don't have a default position, a ready-made opinion or explanation. I'm much more likely to keep quiet, think about it from all angles. Maybe if I'm interested enough or it's useful, I might do a little research. Then I form an opinion, and I'm happy to revise it if I'm later proved wrong. YMMV, but it's worth a try, I think.


Incidentally, do you have transcripts of the readings of any of the psychics who have given you the "exact same message" about your mum?

Thanks!

[Fiona]

That is a very inspiring account, Seren. I mean that. It is what I aspire to but do not really achieve :)

[Nasib]

Grief is a strange beast though. You may have had unresolved issues with your mother which may have surfaced at a later date as a grief hallucination. It may be a subconscious desire to just see her one more time or anything. You must admit it is a distinct possbility.

As it is it is one possibility you did not consider, probably because you were unaware such a phenomena existed. Who can blame you for not knowing something so obscure?

Not an obscure phenomena to me. Indeed, that distinct possibility occured to me 20 years previously upon experiencing "knowing" the very moment of her death. Standing in my kitchen a china plaque with the verse "A Kitchen Blessing" suddenly fell from its hanging position on the wall. The string holding it had just snapped. This was something that she given to me years before and had been on my kitchen wall wherever I lived - quite a few places. It turned out to be the precise moment she died, and without being able to explain why I just "knew" when the telephone call came from my sister that it was to confirm that. Yes, that news could have come at any time as we were aware that she had been given 3 months to live and I had been over to Ireland where she lived to spend some time with her, but this was merely one month after being told that.
After that phonecall I was in a pretty dreadful state, facing having to arrange to get over for the funeral, etc, sobbing uncontrollably - when all of a sudden I stopped when the strangest calm came over me and - difficult to explain this but I strongly sensed her presence there and (not physically audibly) "heard" her say "don't cry, I'm at peace now, all the suffering is over". THAT was when I could have attributed grief hallucination to what I had experienced, and quite frankly that's what I DID put it down to, I felt that it had to be my mind's defences at work. Didn't explain the picture falling though, but all the same I didn't put any more meaning to the "sensing" on that occasion, but I have to say there were many more instances of that ilk to follow over the years, not just connected with my mother, clocks stopping and starting at specific times, lightbulbs, too many unlikely "coincidences" to even begin to list here, which with hindsight now I can equate to much more than "coincidence" or imagination.

[seren]

It is what I aspire to but do not really achieve

Well, thank you! But I don't mean to suggest I'm perfect at it. I just try my damnedest not to kneejerk react any more.

[Nasib]

Thank you Seren, for your extremely interesting reply.


When my partner's grandfather was dying, he saw tigers in his hospital ward and hallucinated that the TV was on and showing a football match. But that's an anecdote which I can't verify so I wouldn't use it to defend my belief in spirit-footballers, if I had one, and I wouldn't expect it to convince anyone else.

Yes of course I can accept all of the above, and I'm sure many hospital workers have come to accept these sort of hallucinatory occurrences as part of their jobs.

You begin your post by stating that you did consider all the possibilities, but your post doesn't elaborate on what possibilities you have considered. It just lists events. Can you tell us some of the alternative explanations you considered?

For example, it's quite well known that as we get older it's the memories from when we are young that become strongest. Combine that with being on the point of death (which I think I'm not wrong in classifying as "very ill") and I would expect visions of people from the past.

Accepted also, but so very many recorded instances of people on their deathbeds "seeing" relatives, some who have not died after an operation for instance telling of how they "met" relatives who told them that it's not their time yet. The first book that really had me questioning these sort of instances was "Life after Life" by Raymond A. Moody. A case study of "near death experiences" gathered from a hotchpotch of people all over the world of varying cultures and beliefs. I was in my teens when that book came out and already questioning the possibilities then.

As to your last point,

I might as well say in my experience the spirit would doesn't exist. So you've learned from your experience and I've learned from mine, and we've both come to opposite conclusions. So who is right? We can't both be right. This is why experience is not good enough.

The unfortunate fact is that your own experience, or my own experience, just isn't enough to tell us everything about the world. If someone else hadn't worked it out, I probably would think the earth was flat. It looks flat. My experience tells me it's flat. When I walk or drive around I can't see it curving. There are hundreds of clever optical illusions which confound my "experience"- playing on the shortcomings of our vision. In my experience, Criss Angel can walk on water and Uri Gellar can bend spoons with just his mind. In my experience.

OK, bit of a potted biogaphy below, but I'm illustrating a point!

I have never been a big "believer", but I had my share of wooish beliefs which went hand in hand with a kind of green/environmental anti-establishment worldview. In the last couple of years, I began to pick apart my own beliefs. I began really digging away at my thoughts, examining them. I didn't allow myself to think of an "opinion" or come to a conclusion without questioning what assumptions I had made and why, and if it was justified. I had to be pretty critical of myself and recognise a lot of my flaws to do it. Slowly I realised that I had been living in a bubble of my own making, only reading about things which backed up my belief and getting angry and defensive when I saw or heard things that opposed it. Much of what I now think, the younger me would have been horrified at. But she didn't know what she was talking about, frankly. It's not been easy, and sometimes I am still not sure who I am, because I can remember my old convictions and justification for them, and a lot of them (animal rights is one) I struggle with because I see and appreciate both sides now.

It sounds as though at some stage you came to a turning point in your life which made you look at your beliefs and certainties and then made you question them. I can't identify with your "bubble" as always where I've had an interest or a conviction in anything I've always been compelled to investigate from all angles. Never, ever being one to accept the opinions of another as the be-all and end-all I'll always try to look at it from another side, and find that there are many other sides. Do I "sit on the fence"? Maybe, for a time, but then I'll jump down from that fence every now and then and try something out, go back and reflect on the consequences, then off again to the other side. My questions invariably come from my experiences and they then bring more questions. It's never ending. No turning point.

I sometimes lurk on an atheist board called Internet Infidels, which is full of stories of people, particularly Christians, becoming atheist. Someone on there pointed out that it was never the string of logical reasons, none of the huge long rambling debates about whether god exists or not, that ever made these people lose faith. It was almost always ultimately themselves. More specifically, themselves questioning the very things they held most dear.

It doesn't matter how many other people try to offer you reasons why your beliefs might be incorrect, it's actually you that has to work through it on your own, if you want to. That old saying about you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Or I can only show you the door, it's you that has to walk through it. At some point I decided to turn my certainties into questions, but nobody could make me do that but me. Maybe you never will; that is up to you.

When I started doubting myself, I became more open minded, not less. Because now whenever something happens, I don't have a default position, a ready-made opinion or explanation. I'm much more likely to keep quiet, think about it from all angles. Maybe if I'm interested enough or it's useful, I might do a little research. Then I form an opinion, and I'm happy to revise it if I'm later proved wrong. YMMV, but it's worth a try, I think.

From your turning point you say you are now much more likely to think about things from all angles. I have always done that from as far back as I can remember - with everything, I'm not just talking about the afterlife question. As an example, I love working out the cryptic crosswords, but not happy enough in just solving them, I have to work out other ways in which I would have compiled those clues, reaching the same answer.

Incidentally, do you have transcripts of the readings of any of the psychics who have given you the "exact same message" about your mum?

Yes, I do. Everything is logged for my own personal recollection - but before you ask ... at this stage in my development at least, I don't feel it appropriate to release them publicly for scrutinisation. You may well deduce your own reasons (understandably perhaps) for that decision. I do realise you can only take my word for it (or not as the case may be) but I will say that sincerity is as important to me as life itself.

Thanks!

[seren]

Thanks for the response. Well, the phrase "turning point" kind of suggests that something happened to me, external to me, that forced me or encouraged me to change.
That's not quite accurate. I just learned stuff that made me realise my thinking was fallacious. I learned about fallacious thinking. I thought I had all the answers, now I realise I probably wasn't even asking the right questions.

I would be very wary of assuming I know enough about anything that my opinion about it can never be changed. Down that road lies dogmatism and intellectual stagnation.

I won't judge your decision not to make your readings public, they were after all on a topic very personal to you that you might not wish to share, but I'm sure you understand that it doesn't help the case of mediums/psychics when they say you need to experience it or see it working for yourself, and then won't show it or demonstrate it. All we then have to go on is your word. Unfortunately there are enough liars and deluded people in the world to make this unreliable as evidence. I wouldn't expect you to believe me if I said I could fly, but I know I would be PMing you right now to set up an experiment to prove it! (My conditions would include access to a functioning aeroplane, a qualified pilot and a kilometre or so of flat ground.....;))

[Mulder]

So, when I went to this medium for a sitting, not knowing anything about me whatsoever ... I was simply someone who had come to him for a reading, whatever he may have told me if he hadn't mentioned the fact that I had seen my mother I would have gone away perhaps still questioning, maybe would've tried another medium, I don't know, but as it turned out was not necessary because not only did she come through immediately, very close and very strongly, (the medium delivered her long message through hearing her words) but confirmed also that I had seen her, and that I would see many, many more spirit people (which has happened) as now was the time for my mediumship to develop.

Nasib. Was this your first visit to a medium? If so, why did you go?

[lara123]

I would appreciate my previous questions answering regarding..what would[in a reading] be enough for the skeptics on here.I didnt mean for you disclose anything personal,just an idea what would even maybe make you think twice.

[MischiefMonkey]

I would appreciate my previous questions answering regarding..what would[in a reading] be enough for the skeptics on here.I didnt mean for you disclose anything personal,just an idea what would even maybe make you think twice.

Hi Lara.

For me personally now, there is more than just the reading.

Having learnt about 'hot reading' the reading itself would have to be guaranteed to be free of that.

So,

From a medium who had no discernible way of knowing who I am and thus not being able to find any personal information from me I would need:

Very specific information from spirit. Apart from my Grandmother's middle name, most of my past relatives have fairly common names. If anyone gave me my Grandmother's middle name I *might* have to question my non-believer stance.

Alternatively, my grandfather had a phrase related to my Eldest son. If a medium ever repeated that, I might have cause to consider further testing. Or even my Grandfather's more unusual nick-name. Or his job(s)

I have Great Aunts' with very personal stories. Give me a name and a message that directly relates to them and I might believe again.

However after several years and 20+ mediums, no specific information has ever been passed on to me.

Compared to others here, my standards are low. Yet no one has ever reached them.

Can you give me my Grandmother's middle name? Or does Nana not want to talk to me? (Would make a change, bless her;))

[Nasib]

Nasib. Was this your first visit to a medium? If so, why did you go?

First time for a private reading, but over the years I had sat in the audience where a medium was giving a demonstration on platform.

The first time I attended one of these demonstrations was 4 months after my mother died. For a nominal entrance charge of £4 I joined an audience of about 30 people. I was the second person to be picked out. The medium said I have your mother here, described her physically in detail (accurately), she passed quite recently of a cancer condition. (yes) (No chance to speak - he was telling me) There's someone called Jim (my father's name) who has trouble with pain in his leg after walking any distance, due to an operation on his left leg. (my father had an operation on his left leg and had to stop and rest after walking any great length)
There's a black and white dog with him, male, but given the name of a female. (my mother's black and white collie, male, but called Susie - well, we're Irish!) You're experiencing problems with a young boy, school age, where you're fighting an uphill struggle, there's a strong feeling of your being all alone in the world, having to do everything yourself. You are not alone, take strength in the knowledge that spirit is with you and aware of what you're going through.The situation will be resolved not immediately but in 3 months time in the form of a letter. (long story - to do with my son who had been admitted into school under an assisted place - WAS resolved 3 months later - letter!)
Now a young boy, 5 or 6, died in an accident near his home, wants to let his family know he's around them. He's aware that his Christmas presents are still kept, unopened. There's a strong Catholic influence surrounding his family, lots of Catholic prayers and Masses being said for him. These prayers are heard. You have a sister living in a different country, in the countryside in the same area where he lived. (About 15 years previous to that in the village where I lived, and where my sister still lives, 5 doors up from us, Terry aged 7, but looked younger, was knocked down by a car on the road right outside his house on Christmas Eve. The whole village turned out for his funeral, a very sad day, and every year a special memorial Mass is offered up for him on the anniversary of his death.)
Because of the nature of their environment his family would not really understand "this sort of thing", you are the only way in which he can get a connection to them. He would dearly love them to know that he loves them and that he's "grand" (a common local expression for "fine/just great").
Then the medium referred back to my mother and said she's with Bill (her brother, my uncle who died years before that). Take her love and blessing. Then he moved on to someone else.

Well, I left there absolutely gobsmacked.

And that was the beginning of my "belief".

[Mulder]

Nasib: So did you only start getting interested in spiritualism after your mother died? Or did you have a long term interest in spiritualism before that? How did you first find out about spiritualism?

Sorry if this sounds like an interrogation. I'm just interested in how people get to know about spiritualism and what they expect from it.

Thanks.

[Cuddles]

I would appreciate my previous questions answering regarding..what would[in a reading] be enough for the skeptics on here.I didnt mean for you disclose anything personal,just an idea what would even maybe make you think twice.

A reading should never be enough for anyone. What would be enough would be several independently replicated, well conducted, double blind trials. There are a variety of possible things which can be tested. If you want to test readings, the best way is to do readings for a group of people and then have them pick the one they think matches them.

Any individual reading is meaningless because of all the possibilities for hot reading, cold reading, pure chance and so on. Sure, if you got something difficult, like MischiefMonkey's grandmother's middle name it might be interesting, assuming all possibilities of reading or cheating were eliminated, but it wouldn't actually be evidence for anything, it would just be a single, isolated case.

[lara123]

Hi Lara.

For me personally now, there is more than just the reading.

Having learnt about 'hot reading' the reading itself would have to be guaranteed to be free of that.

So,

From a medium who had no discernible way of knowing who I am and thus not being able to find any personal information from me I would need:

Very specific information from spirit. Apart from my Grandmother's middle name, most of my past relatives have fairly common names. If anyone gave me my Grandmother's middle name I *might* have to question my non-believer stance.

Alternatively, my grandfather had a phrase related to my Eldest son. If a medium ever repeated that, I might have cause to consider further testing. Or even my Grandfather's more unusual nick-name. Or his job(s)

I have Great Aunts' with very personal stories. Give me a name and a message that directly relates to them and I might believe again.

However after several years and 20+ mediums, no specific information has ever been passed on to me.

Compared to others here, my standards are low. Yet no one has ever reached them.

Can you give me my Grandmother's middle name? Or does Nana not want to talk to me? (Would make a change, bless her;))

Thankyou for your reply.I should be so lucky in getting a name.Ive only got about 20 in seven yrs.But most of those have been in the last couple of yrs.Why? I dont know.

I really dont know if i could post a reading up here to be scrutinised.Ive said before on here i will consider it.Im new to internet readings and i doubt its the way i will head.But i have had some success with it,but find it more difficult than face-to-face.And thats not because i ask sitters questions-because i dont.I tell them at the beginning of the reading to only speak if they dont understand something ive said.

I wonder if i would be judged fairly on an internet reading.In my favour in doing so though,as long as responses are honest,it would give me an idea of my capabilities more in doing so.Im saying nothing new here,ive said before somewhere here,im new to internet readings.

Im considering it.I do wish you would of said please though.:smiley:

[lara123]

A reading should never be enough for anyone. What would be enough would be several independently replicated, well conducted, double blind trials. There are a variety of possible things which can be tested. If you want to test readings, the best way is to do readings for a group of people and then have them pick the one they think matches them.

Any individual reading is meaningless because of all the possibilities for hot reading, cold reading, pure chance and so on. Sure, if you got something difficult, like MischiefMonkey's grandmother's middle name it might be interesting, assuming all possibilities of reading or cheating were eliminated, but it wouldn't actually be evidence for anything, it would just be a single, isolated case.

I see your point here,but disagree a single reading can be meaningless and not provide evidence.Hot/cold /cheating can still be ruled out on one reading if careful procedures were followed.

But a test like the one you said certainly is a more accurate way to really test a psychic on the whole.

[Nasib]

Nasib: So did you only start getting interested in spiritualism after your mother died? Or did you have a long term interest in spiritualism before that? How did you first find out about spiritualism?

Sorry if this sounds like an interrogation. I'm just interested in how people get to know about spiritualism and what they expect from it.

Thanks.

I can't say that I've always been interested in Spiritualism, per se, as quite frankly, until recently I didn't even know what it was.
I have, though, always been aware of and interested in the power and vast capabilities of the mind. Psychological physical effects, mind over matter, telepathy, telekenisis, hypnosis, all these things fascinated me.
I remember as a schoolchild my futile attempts at explaining to my friends how you really can "rid yourself" of the pain of say toothache by concentrating on it and gently "urging" the pain to flow into your shoulder, down your arm and out through your fingertips. It really did work for me. Of course, the source of the pain required attention at some practical level but that was another matter. I soon came to recognise the strange looks coming my way when I spoke of such things, so learned to keep such matters to myself. As a child I would quite naturally see others surrounded by colours, colours which would move and change at times. I had assumed everyone could, and remember being quite disappointed to eventually discover this wasn't the case.
When I went to that first clairvoyancy demonstration not long after my mother's death, at the time I really couldn't say what it was that brought me there, what my reasons for going were - all I know is I found myself there not really knowing what to expect, although with hindsight I would suggest that it was a form of synchronicity that "directed" me there. It was that first message that convinced me that when we die that's not "the end of it" and I think that realisation in itself was sufficient at that particular time in my life, with many more experiences yet to encounter, I look on it now as a sort of preparation. It had no dramatic impact on my everyday life, just an acceptance picked up along life's journey. Then with many more relatives dying over the years and many of them bringing further messages of their continued existence (through mediums), this just served to cement that acceptance.
It was only when (just 2 years ago) so many really strange and inexplicable things started happening around me, culminating in my mother's "visit", that I decided to have a reading with a medium. I knew what I had experienced, I knew there must have been a reason for her visit, I didn't know what that reason was, but apart from anything, as only I had experienced it, I wanted my own personal validation from an "outsider" - which as told in my previous post, I did receive, but additionally was made aware of the reason. Incredibly detailed as it was, I still (for my own clarification) felt the need to seek out different mediums for "a second opinion" for want of a better phrase - I went to 4 other randomly picked mediums, and 3 of those delivered exactly the same information (from my mother, who incidentally they each said came through very clearly & was obviously very experienced in doing so) and with my father coming through with "her help". I did say 3 out of 4. One that I encountered was reading at Mind, Body & Spirit Festival amongst a group of 10 or so, each offering different forms of "readings" - amongst them Astrology, Tarot, Palmistry... He purported to be giving readings as a Medium - THIS is the type of fraudulent character that sullies the practice of true mediumship "someone here in spirit that looks like you" "name of Mary or Marie or Maria" "you have to watch your finances, this plastic day and age people don't realise it's money they're dealing in". "You've been tired lately - you should eat a Mars bar when your energy level goes down!" "Oh, and good advice to invest in a tens machine, just so happens I produce them, much cheaper than in the high st shops - here's my card" ...
Anyway - diversifying here. After my "clarifications" I am now in a mediumship development circle, and in discovering the realms of spiritualism I feel that I've quite simply "come home". It's not changed me or my lifestyle in any way, just fits happily around my present hectic, very materialistic (solicitors office) work.

[Mulder]

Thanks Nasib. Fascinating stuff! I've come across other people that see colours around people. Do you still see these colours? Is it just around people or are the people themselves covered in these colours? Do objects that are not living also have colours around or over them? Are the colours consistent over time and for particular people?