Sally Morgan: Star Psychic.

[Medium rare]

Medium rare,

Thank you very much for telling us about your experience. How distressing for you and your daughter.

Just goes to show how these superficially 'nice' people play with emotions. I am currently going through the process of contacting most of the theatres that are on her 2009 tour schedule asking them to reconsider booking such acts in future, and at very least incorporate a prominent and thorough disclaimer. Results are very mixed, but getting some limited success.

Amazing that so many of the theatres are local government owned. I am trying to work on an angle that may get them banned from accepting such bookings in future. Your testimony is potentially valuable in this. Since you have publicly posted may I use it?

You could of course make a complaint to Trading Standards based on yoru experience. When did this happen? It would certainly fit that both you and your daughter could be classed as 'vulnerable' under the terms of the Consumer Protection Regulations 2008, and that your experience suggests that you were mislead. I apprecaite that this may be an effort too far, but you could set an important precedent which would help many others in future avoid falling into the same trap.

I do hope both you and your daughter are getting over this experience and wish you the very best.

Dubious Dick, apologies for not getting back to you sooner but I'm just back from hols. The event in question took place in the NEWI University Hall in Wrexham on (I think) March 24. I don't have a problem if you want to use my account but we wouldn't want to go as far as trading standards. It was upsetting at the time, especially for my daughter, but she soon got over it and now has a very jaundiced view about the whole medium ‘profession’ if that’s what you can call it.

Another interesting thing that happened on the night which proved her entire act was based on information from these ‘love cards’. This time it was a father or grandfather (can’t remember which) who came through in spirit to speak to someone called Sian. Now everyone in Wales knows that this is the Welsh spelling for the English name Sharne and is pronounced the same as Sharne. However Sally Morgan pronounced it S-e-e-a-n, an easy mistake for an English person to make if she’d read it off the card, but don’t forget she was claiming that this was a spirit speaking directly to her.

Anyway, eventually the Sian in question stood up and corrected her on her mis-pronunciation to which Sally replied, ‘spirits also have a sense of humour you know and sometimes they love to tease us’. What a pathetic attempt at an excuse!

[Fortunate51]

"the real fun isn't in the arrival, it's in the journey you take to get there"

With the clues I've given,Matt,a telephone and the help of people who live in the area reading this,you shouldn't have any trouble finding this lady. Rather you didn't turn this into a 'witch-hunt' though ..... this country has enough of those going on already. (Can't think of a time when we've been such a fascist state as we are under this corrupt Labour 'dictatorship') ..... er ....sorry about that outburst..... I must have forgotten to take my medication.

[MischiefMonkey]

I live in the Midlands and I haven't got a scooby who you are talking about. Its a pretty big area with quite a large population of mediums, a tiny number of whom I know/knew personally.

Nobody here wants a witch hunt, nobody has asked that her details be posted on an open forum. Matt asked for the details to be sent in a private message which would avoid such a witch hunt.

You don't want to pass on details. Fair enough. But without any other means of judging her other than your word, I would tend to conclude her 'psychic ability' is nothing more than cold reading as demonstrated from the few specifics you were willing to go into.

[tolman]

(Can't think of a time when we've been such a fascist state as we are under this corrupt Labour 'dictatorship')
Indeed!

There was no email snooping decades ago when everyone communicated by telegram and operator-connected telephone calls, and the police never used to beat anyone up (at least, not unless they thought they might be guilty, or foreign, or otherwise undesirable, or likely to confess to something if hit hard enough).

[katica82]

I have never been to an evening with a psychic before and tonight was my first experience with Sally Morgan. I spent 2 hours cringing on her behalf. It was embarrassing....she was off on nearly everything and was clearly reaching. When people weren't feeding her info, she dismissed them by telling them their dead relative 'loves them' or claimed she had answered their question without actually saying anything at all! Dreadful. With so many people searching for comfort, people who are clearly without a shred of psychic talent are just cruel.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

Yet to hear a good report of one of her shows.

Thing is, she does exactly the same act as Fry, Edwards, Stockwell etc, only she appears to be appallingly bad at it. :undecided:

[Croydon Bob]

Thing is, she does exactly the same act as Fry, Edwards, Stockwell etc, only she appears to be appallingly bad at it.

I've seen John Edward on TV after editing to make him look good and he still looks extraordinarily bad at cold reading.

I've never seen Sally Morgan but it's hard to believe that she could be much worse.

[Croydon Bob]

I have never been to an evening with a psychic before and tonight was my first experience with Sally Morgan. I spent 2 hours cringing on her behalf. It was embarrassing....she was off on nearly everything and was clearly reaching. When people weren't feeding her info, she dismissed them by telling them their dead relative 'loves them' or claimed she had answered their question without actually saying anything at all! Dreadful. With so many people searching for comfort, people who are clearly without a shred of psychic talent are just cruel.

Thanks for that.

I'd be interested to know more about why you were there. For instance: Were you already skeptical? Or expecting to believe?

[Dubious Dick]

I have never been to an evening with a psychic before and tonight was my first experience with Sally Morgan. I spent 2 hours cringing on her behalf. It was embarrassing....she was off on nearly everything and was clearly reaching. When people weren't feeding her info, she dismissed them by telling them their dead relative 'loves them' or claimed she had answered their question without actually saying anything at all! Dreadful. With so many people searching for comfort, people who are clearly without a shred of psychic talent are just cruel.

Yep. Thanks for letting us know your experience. Out of interest, have you seen anyone you consider does have 'psychic' ability?

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

I've seen John Edward on TV after editing to make him look good and he still looks extraordinarily bad at cold reading.

I've never seen Sally Morgan but it's hard to believe that she could be much worse.

Well, they all look bad to me as well. But people seem to post positive reports of Edward, etc, however no one has positive reports of Morgan.

I personally think there are two reasons for this - she is genuinely worse at performing by a long way than the 'skilled' stage psychics. Plus her tv shows were so faked and edited that she has created a completely unwarranted sense of expectation amongst those that go to her shows.

A really horrible woman. Everything I've heard about her sounds terrible.

[katica82]

I have never been to a live performance before. My friend suggested it. I had seen colin Fry on television and have always been sceptical but was impressed enough by his TV show to want to see more. If someone were even half convincing, I would be open to believing that some people have a real gift of communication. I would love for someone to prove, with a decent bit of personal info, that for example my dad is looking down on me etc! However I was really disappointed and her 'performance' for want of a better word, did nothing to convince me that people really have this 'talent'. Maybe some people do, Sally Morgan, I'm sure, does not.

[hilary shinclair]

Sal is very good at personal readings but there again i would be too if i had foreknowledge of whom i was going to read; but try the same act infront of a live audiance with no internet connection and no knowledge of the sitter then thats a different story - i might struggle a bit there.

[Question Authority]

Reading this makes me curious as to just how any self-proclaimed psychic could prove their gift is real.

I don't know the details of this particular program, but I know that all television is carefully edited, and that would - obviously - include a program with a psychic. So I would take pretty much anything I see on TV with a grain of salt...

But with people who want irrefutable proof, how would that be derived? I mean, could they test someone in a "controlled" lab and then report the findings in some journal? Would people believe it if the findings were positive and they couldn't "see" it for themselves but rather had to rely on a printed report?

I'm just wondering, since I've seen so many people suggest that psychics undergo testing, just what would that entail and who would monitor it in such a way that everyone would believe the results, regardless of what those results are?

Curious...

[Matt]

Reading this makes me curious as to just how any self-proclaimed psychic could prove their gift is real.

I don't know the details of this particular program, but I know that all television is carefully edited, and that would - obviously - include a program with a psychic. So I would take pretty much anything I see on TV with a grain of salt...

But with people who want irrefutable proof, how would that be derived? I mean, could they test someone in a "controlled" lab and then report the findings in some journal? Would people believe it if the findings were positive and they couldn't "see" it for themselves but rather had to rely on a printed report?

I'm just wondering, since I've seen so many people suggest that psychics undergo testing, just what would that entail and who would monitor it in such a way that everyone would believe the results, regardless of what those results are?

Curious...

That rather depends upon the psychic claim. however much testing in controlled conditions does go on. Look at the work of CSICOP (http://www.csicop.org/) and the JREF (http://www.randi.org/site/) for examples

[MischiefMonkey]

When people take money to talk to the dead (directly or through a TV production company) then they should talk to the dead.

The protocols for testing are not particularly onerous. One possibility is reading for a number (ten or twelve?) of people, without direct contact, and writing down the readings. Each subject would then be given a copy of all readings and be asked to pick out their own. If a statistically significant number of people picked their personal reading, then further testing would be in order.

So far, no 'psychic' has even met this level of evidence.

Read up on cold reading and the Forer effect. These are what any test is trying to exclude, and what 'psychics' rely on.

[Question Authority]

I looked at both of those sites, Matt, but I didn't find any specific parameters for such testing. I saw a number of articles that already had a conclusion, but nothing beyond maybe a vague mention of "testing." It kinda seems like the same thing the other viewpoint does - already has its mind made up and states biased conclusions as facts. I have difficulty taking any such absolutes (either way) as objective. Maybe I just overlooked what I was looking for though.

I'm curious to see what the actual testing consists of. You said that depends upon the psychic claim - I'm kinda lost on this one, lol, cuz I didn't realize there were various forms of psychic ability (I mean, one can either "read" people or they can't). Or are you including all types of paranormal claims within that scope? Like mediumship, telekinesis, remote viewing, etc.? Either way, I'm merely talking about the ability to "read" people when I refer to psychic ability. I have a certain understanding of how the process works (how it's supposed to work, anyway, lol) and I'm at a loss as to how it could be tested effectively or accurately.

Which brings me to Monkey's recommendation to read about cold readings/Forer effect. I've done that (read about them) and have seen it in action innumerable times, lol, and I don't take that as any type of "proof" whatsoever of psychic abilities. Seems to be 2 separate entities to me. And people are nuts if they allow a self-proclaimed "psychic" to lead them in that way, imo, but to each his own. It's entertaining, but hardly "psychic."

Also, your suggestion that a psychic write down readings for a group of people he or she hasn't seen or spoken to or knows nothing about - wouldn't that be a little too open-ended? (Playing devil's advocate here, lol) I don't mean they should be provided with a history on the subjects or that they be allowed to sit and talk for a while, but I'm not sure how that method would work efficiently (based upon what I know of the process).

To use my previous typing analogy, can you test someone's ability if you don't provide them with any copy to type from? (Dang, I wish I could think of an even better analogy, but it'll have to do) They must have something to work with, that's my point.

I don't want to get too long-winded, so hopefully what I've said/asked is clear enough, but I'm more than happy to be more detailed.

I'm neither defending nor promoting anything, I'm just trying to understand what sort of parameters would be used effectively in order to test this ability. From my limited knowledge, don't you have to start with a hypothesis that is both valid and testable? What could that be in a case involving something that isn't tangible? What about the sample groups, how are they chosen? (Ha, seriously not trying to be difficult, I just can't fathom how something like this could be tested scientifically, but I'd love to see a way it could!)

[chaggle]

I mean, one can either "read" people or they can't

Well I would think that, for a start, you would have to define very carefully what exactly that means.

[bindeweede]

Apparently, Sally has an 18-year waiting list. Well, according to "The Biography Channel".;D;D;D;D;D


One of Britain’s best-loved psychics, Sally Morgan, 57, is an ordinary woman with an extraordinary gift: she can communicate with the dead. She also predicted the death of Diana.Sadly, I cannot receive said channel.:'(

http://www.thebiographychannel.co.uk/biography_story/2832:3655/1/The_Psychic_Life_Of_Sally_Morgan.htm

[bindeweede]

Apparently, Sally has an 18-year waiting list. Well, according to "The Biography Channel".;D;D;D;D;D

Sadly, I cannot receive said channel.:'(

http://www.thebiographychannel.co.uk/biography_story/2832:3655/1/The_Psychic_Life_Of_Sally_Morgan.htm

You know, I have been thinking. (No, don't be naughty.)


Sally has celebrities and high-profile clients queuing to listen to her psychic abilitiesJust wondering if there is an alternative expression.....wa.....tos....dip...

No idea really.

[bindeweede]

For all of those interested, Sally has a new web site, and lovely it is too.

And for only £1.50 per minute, you can have a reading from..........well, someone other than Sally, of course. Still, she is smiling......all the way.....

http://www.psychicsally.com/live-psychics.html

Now there is a shop, and a blog, and a Community. And details of her current tour with helpful numbers for bookings.

Irresistible.

[NorthernSoul]

It seems she's in my neck of the woods on Tuesday (1st Sept) for the second time this year. I'm a little ashamed of the local auditorium for booking her again, but as last time I'll be out of town. Here's hoping a gang can set up on her with eggs.

[CJOS]

Having read alot on this forum page I had to join up. If I have a Psychic experience or see a ghost and can not form a sound explanation I don't dismiss it but I don't deny it either. The way I explain things to people who are not blessed with the knowledge of how to use their 6th sense is that years ago folk would use twigs to divine for water and this was deemed as a form of which craft / trickery but proven to be true as now we use electrical divining equipment. I was able to channel my ability through the Tarot cards and give twelve monthly reading, I would ask the listener to write it all down and we both keep a copy so that we could both refer to what was correct or not. I was astounded by the results of which to this day I don't understand. I have experienced strange psychic events in my life or what can be deemed as phychic as I see things as black and white and one of the biggest sceptics going.

I went to see Sally Morgan s show in Portsmouth Uk two weeks ago. To me her energy was apparent also which was apparent was a apparition watching her which to me became a distraction however I keep an open mind as to what this could had been. Sally was good in her manner but I felt uncomfortable, why ? because the lady I walked behind when leaving the theatre made no remarks or even talked about her experience when Sally picked on her. I have spoke to folk and they agree with me - if I was picked on by Sally in front of a packed Theatre with TV cameras on me I would be chatting to my family as I left making some comment or observation. Because of this it has left me with a little doubt hence why I visited this site and also reading up on Sally to compare ability, experience.

Faith is a wonderful thing but for those who doubt. Just remember the person you meet for the first time and you become friends or even pick up a Male / Female for the first time and sleep with them that night. You may nothing about them only what they tell you but for some reason you feel it is right and have sex with them, you don't know who they are but you have taken a leep of faith due to trusting you intuition. Applying this thought to Psychics, Religion etc is doing exactly the same - trusting in something you don't understand, not that I consider myself to have strong faith, probably why I don't have one night stands ;) but I keep an open mind and try to understand. Folk are afraid of the unknown and prefer to knock it rather than accept that there may be a Why, How, or remote possibility.

Be safe

Chris

[Admin]

If I have a Psychic experience or see a ghost and can not form a sound explanation I don't dismiss it but I don't deny it either.

Neither would we deny the experience.

It's the explanation for the experience where we might differ.

I don't know where you get the idea that dowsing has been scientifically proven from (it hasn't) but it's nice to see that you realize that a reading given to an audience member might not be quite as random or unexpected as it might have first appeared.

[tolman]

The way I explain things to people who are not blessed with the knowledge of how to use their 6th sense is that years ago folk would use twigs to divine for water and this was deemed as a form of which craft / trickery but proven to be true as now we use electrical divining equipment.
Which equipment, how does it work, and is it supposed to use the same method as water diviners?

It's surprising how much water there is underground, and how close to the surface it often is. If someone walks across a field with a pair of twigs and says 'dig here!' and people dig and find water, that would only be suggestive of a 6th sense if there weren't any surface cues as to where to dig *and* digging elsewhere in the field provided substantially worse results than the chosen site.



I was able to channel my ability through the Tarot cards and give twelve monthly reading, I would ask the listener to write it all down and we both keep a copy so that we could both refer to what was correct or not. I was astounded by the results of which to this day I don't understand.
Do you have any examples of your best, typical and worst readings, and what real-life events your listeners connected the readings to?

Did you ever try secretly giving the wrong reading to a few people (such as one you'd already done for someone else), and see how well they thought those reading worked out?
That would help to work out how keen people were to fit their experience to your predictions, whether by selective hindsight, or by trying to make what you predicted actually happen.

[Matt]

Having read alot on this forum page I had to join up. If I have a Psychic experience or see a ghost and can not form a sound explanation I don't dismiss it but I don't deny it either. The way I explain things to people who are not blessed with the knowledge of how to use their 6th sense is that years ago folk would use twigs to divine for water and this was deemed as a form of which craft / trickery but proven to be true as now we use electrical divining equipment.

Hang around here long enough and you'll get tired of hearing this but allow me to be the first to tell you that there's a million dollars in it for you if you actually can prove dowsing with twigs, rods or any other supernatural means.


I was able to channel my ability through the Tarot cards and give twelve monthly reading, I would ask the listener to write it all down and we both keep a copy so that we could both refer to what was correct or not. I was astounded by the results of which to this day I don't understand.

Unconcious cold reading, the forer effect and even a dash of coincidence can go a long way to explain some really amazing stuff.

If your already have a good understanding of these very phenomena and still think that these abilities produce replicable resutls then we can talk about a double blind protocol that could earn you a million dollars.


I have experienced strange psychic events in my life or what can be deemed as phychic as I see things as black and white and one of the biggest sceptics going.

I'm sceptical about that :smiley:. This (http://www.skeptics.org.uk/article.php?dir=articles&article=what_is_skepticism.php)is the definition of scepticism in use here


I went to see Sally Morgan s show in Portsmouth Uk two weeks ago. To me her energy was apparent also which was apparent was a apparition watching her which to me became a distraction however I keep an open mind as to what this could had been. Sally was good in her manner but I felt uncomfortable, why ? because the lady I walked behind when leaving the theatre made no remarks or even talked about her experience when Sally picked on her. I have spoke to folk and they agree with me - if I was picked on by Sally in front of a packed Theatre with TV cameras on me I would be chatting to my family as I left making some comment or observation. Because of this it has left me with a little doubt hence why I visited this site and also reading up on Sally to compare ability, experience.

There could be a number of explanation for this. One - which I think you're alluding to may be that the person is a stooge or plant.

However it's just as likely that Sally uses cold reading techniques to create the illusion of knowing information which is in fact being supplied by the sitter, falling back on warm reading techniquese whereby she or her team researches her sitters for information they've inadvertantly revealed in public.

The sitter may have been simply unimpressed in recognising these techniques in play. Imagine if Sally had geared her reading around information you'd been discussing in the lobby in front of that suspicious looking eavesdropper. You might choose to be especially tight lipped on the way out.

Alternative she may have be utterly convinced and stunned into silence.

Much as I'd love to see good evidence of Sally using stooges this simply isn't it.


Faith is a wonderful thing but for those who doubt. Just remember the person you meet for the first time and you become friends or even pick up a Male / Female for the first time and sleep with them that night. You may nothing about them only what they tell you but for some reason you feel it is right and have sex with them, you don't know who they are but you have taken a leep of faith due to trusting you intuition.

That's not faith, that's choosing to trust. Faith si when they treat you like shit and you continue to trust them despite all evidence to the contrary.



Applying this thought to Psychics, Religion etc is doing exactly the same - trusting in something you don't understand, not that I consider myself to have strong faith, probably why I don't have one night stands ;) but I keep an open mind and try to understand. Folk are afraid of the unknown and prefer to knock it rather than accept that there may be a Why, How, or remote possibility.

Be safe

Chris

Yup believing things without evidence. A surefire way to get yourself fucked ;D

Dear Sir, I am George Ngubu, exucutive assitance at the First bank of Nigeria. This letter might surprise you because we have not met neither in person nor by correspondence. I came to know of you in my search for a reliable and reputable person to handle a very confidential business transaction, which involves the transfer of a huge sum of money to an account requiring maximum confidence....

[skbuncks]

Dear Sir, I am George Ngubu, exucutive assitance at the First bank of Nigeria. This letter might surprise you because we have not met neither in person nor by correspondence. I came to know of you in my search for a reliable and reputable person to handle a very confidential business transaction, which involves the transfer of a huge sum of money to an account requiring maximum confidence....

Come on Matt, no one in their right mind would fall for that. The grammar and spelling were far too good.

skb

[CJOS]

Great replies thank you.

As it is true that science has high bench marks for testing it is also true that just by making a suggestion it can provoke a reaction ie: Water divining. Yes I am aware it is not a proven science but people have the ability, however the suggestion and idea brought about the equipment in usage today for detection and also a reaction on site. The power of suggestion is amazing as we know can lead the most sceptical in to a sense of belief, our past wars and the Hitler regime are proof of this although way off subject I know.

With regards to my past readings .

Karen 23 years old approx was working for many years in a care home, never been away abroad. I advised her that she would be going to America on a Holiday at which time she would meet a member of the Navy and whilst she was there fall pregnant and marry the guy. As I said the reading was done for the next twelve months. The amazing thing is that she having wrote this down with myself having a copy we could compare. Yes the events were true, how , why , I don't know, I don't claim anything as I don't understand why a monthly prediction can work unless she followed it to the book. All I can say how pleased I was when they came to the UK and she presented me to her Husband who was in the Navy and there child. Just one example of which remains unexplained or can it ?

Back to dowsing. As a party trick I used to use a needle and thread to find hidden coins under a news paper always finding the highest denomination and asked others to try it of which they too were successful each time. As I said a party trick.

A UK Psychic was tested in the USA for Psychic ability not for the fact he could had won the prize, which would had been great, but to get some answers. It came about that he failed the test but science then came to his aid and test his brain patterns and electro output and to their astonishment found that he had exceptional activity above the norm in the area of the Brain of which the Psychic claimed was where he was reading from. A step forward and a great relief for the Psychic as this proved him not to be a liar or to be ill but a proven existence of something going on in the brain of which science could not explain YET.

I said that I am very sceptical but open minded and as I told my other half recently , I could see a flying pig and still search for an explanation although it would be explained as Swine Flew :) sorry guys

[Admin]

A UK Psychic was tested in the USA for Psychic ability not for the fact he could had won the prize, which would had been great, but to get some answers. It came about that he failed the test but science then came to his aid and test his brain patterns and electro output and to their astonishment found that he had exceptional activity above the norm in the area of the Brain of which the Psychic claimed was where he was reading from. A step forward and a great relief for the Psychic as this proved him not to be a liar or to be ill but a proven existence of something going on in the brain of which science could not explain YET.

This one: http://www.ukskeptics.com/DerekOgilvie_ExtraordinaryPeople.php

I'm afraid the EEG results didn't provide anything that science can't explain. The fact is, because Derek didn't give any positive results in the first place, there wasn't anything to explain!

[tolman]

Yes I am aware it [water divinging] is not a proven science but people have the ability
Is that 'some people are proven to have the ability', or 'some people are believed (by some) to have the ability'?


..however the suggestion and idea brought about the equipment in usage today for detection and also a reaction on site.
The need for water drove various attempts to make its finding easier


The power of suggestion is amazing as we know can lead the most sceptical in to a sense of belief, our past wars and the Hitler regime are proof of this although way off subject I know.
I'd make a distinction between suggestion and persuasion.
The first is often subtle, and can work even when people aren't aware it's happening. Persuading someone by rhetoric or force of personality is a quite different process.


Karen 23 years old approx was working for many years in a care home, never been away abroad. I advised her that she would be going to America on a Holiday at which time she would meet a member of the Navy and whilst she was there fall pregnant and marry the guy. As I said the reading was done for the next twelve months. The amazing thing is that she having wrote this down with myself having a copy we could compare. Yes the events were true, how , why , I don't know, I don't claim anything as I don't understand why a monthly prediction can work unless she followed it to the book. All I can say how pleased I was when they came to the UK and she presented me to her Husband who was in the Navy and there child. Just one example of which remains unexplained or can it ?
Adults don't go on holiday by accident. They do it because the idea comes to them (or a putative travelling companion) and they agree to go along with it.
Someone who actually believes in 'destiny' can do a great deal to help fulfil a prediction.


Back to dowsing. As a party trick I used to use a needle and thread to find hidden coins under a news paper always finding the highest denomination and asked others to try it of which they too were successful each time. As I said a party trick.
Party tricks can be deceptive, as they rarely happen under controlled conditions - it is easy for people to pick up on cues that others unconsciously give off, which is why proper tests are carried out more carefully (and why proper tests tend to give less welcome results for people who believe in psychic phenomena.


A UK Psychic was tested in the USA for Psychic ability not for the fact he could had won the prize, which would had been great, but to get some answers. It came about that he failed the test but science then came to his aid and test his brain patterns and electro output and to their astonishment found that he had exceptional activity above the norm in the area of the Brain of which the Psychic claimed was where he was reading from. A step forward and a great relief for the Psychic as this proved him not to be a liar or to be ill but a proven existence of something going on in the brain of which science could not explain YET.
Brain activity can vary hugely with concentration on particular tasks, and with practice at doing such concentration.
To have someone who is concentrating on a particular task have a particular area being active isn't miraculous, and results would really need to be compared to 'normal' people who had also spent some time trying to similarly concentrate.
I dare say that, if stuck in a PET scanner, whatever brain areas are used when programming would be a lot more active in me when I'm thinking about a programming problem than in a 'normal' person daydreaming about their cat, but that doesn't make me psychic.

Similarly, it wouldn't be difficult for someone with a little knowledge to have a fair stab at *which* brain areas might be active, if knowing the kind of thoughts being thought, as a result of what science already knows about the organisation of the brain.

[Matt]

Back to dowsing. As a party trick I used to use a needle and thread to find hidden coins under a news paper always finding the highest denomination and asked others to try it of which they too were successful each time. As I said a party trick.

Brilliant example. Do you think your could still do it if the aperp was taut, not touching the coins and no-one in the room know where the coins were and which coins were which.

Every time? Really, no excuses.

So lets suggest the following. I mark a two sheets of newspaper with a fat marker pen to divide each into 16 areas clearly labelled 1 to 16.

I lay one sheet flat on a table. The other I tape to a frame.

I also place tokens labelled 1 to 16 in a bag. I shake the bag and draw a token.

This tells me where to place a 2 pound coin on the newspaper laid out flat.

I Do not replace the token. I draw two more to tell me whare to place 2 £1 coins and carrry on to place the remainder of my coins until I have drawn all but on toekn from the bag and have placed

1 x £2
2 x £1
2 x 50p
2 x 20p
2 x 10p
2 x 5p
2 x 2p
2 x 1p
1 x blank section.

I record the result. Then place the second sheet and the frame over the top so that the sections line up but the newspaper is not actually touching any of the coins.

I leave the room.

You enter accompanied by another observer and tell that observer under which section the £2 coin is hidden, using dowsing or any other supernatural means.

This is repeated 4 times. You don't have to get it right every time. Three out of four will be enough.

Do you think this will work or does it only work when it's a party trick?

[Trinoc]

You can't beat a taut aperp! :smiley:

[Matt]

You can't beat a taut aperp! :smiley:

Really my fingers must be in a terrible hurry to press their keys all at once instead of in order.

for those who don't watch countdown (Now Do C??t) that should be "paper" not "aperp"!

[Trinoc]

Really my fingers must be in a terrible hurry to press their keys all at once instead of in order.

for those who don't watch countdown (Now Do C??t) that should be "paper" not "aperp"!
You've got the same problem as I have. For most of my keyboard-operating life I was a one-finger typist and all my left hand did was operate the shift key. Then I taught my left hand to do a few of the keys up at that end (still one finger) but I wish I hadn't because now if I type anything that involves alternating left and right fingers they get out of step (and type things like "aperp"). Or sometimes the left finger gets just plain lazy and types "a" regardless of which key it's supposed to be typing (it did it just then with the "s" at the start of "supposed").

[Croydon Bob]

You've got the same problem as I have.

Oh dear! Poor Matt. I'm very very sorry to hear that. :sad:

What? Oh, with typing. No biggie then...

[Trinoc]

Oh dear! Poor Matt. I'm very very sorry to hear that. :sad:

What? Oh, with typing. No biggie then...
"Problem" ... singular ... I wouldn't wish my complete set of problems on anyone!

(Well, maybe on Croydon Bob ...)

[CJOS]

Brilliant example. Do you think your could still do it if the aperp was taut, not touching the coins and no-one in the room know where the coins were and which coins were which.

Every time? Really, no excuses.

So lets suggest the following. I mark a two sheets of newspaper with a fat marker pen to divide each into 16 areas clearly labelled 1 to 16.

I lay one sheet flat on a table. The other I tape to a frame.

I also place tokens labelled 1 to 16 in a bag. I shake the bag and draw a token.

This tells me where to place a 2 pound coin on the newspaper laid out flat.

I Do not replace the token. I draw two more to tell me whare to place 2 £1 coins and carrry on to place the remainder of my coins until I have drawn all but on toekn from the bag and have placed

1 x £2
2 x £1
2 x 50p
2 x 20p
2 x 10p
2 x 5p
2 x 2p
2 x 1p
1 x blank section.

I record the result. Then place the second sheet and the frame over the top so that the sections line up but the newspaper is not actually touching any of the coins.

I leave the room.

You enter accompanied by another observer and tell that observer under which section the £2 coin is hidden, using dowsing or any other supernatural means.

This is repeated 4 times. You don't have to get it right every time. Three out of four will be enough.

Do you think this will work or does it only work when it's a party trick?

I never consider it supernatural just something I took for granted hense why I said party trick, however your suggestion is worth trying. I 'll give that one ago. As I indicated before. If something can't be explained by science or proved by any other means then I leave it as unexplained. Just please my tiepin isn't coming up with errors ;)

[Matt]

I never consider it supernatural just something I took for granted hense why I said party trick, however your suggestion is worth trying. I 'll give that one ago. As I indicated before. If something can't be explained by science or proved by any other means then I leave it as unexplained. Just please my tiepin isn't coming up with errors ;)

Well I don't consider it supernatural either. I belive that there are multiple factors in play. I'm actually spoilt for choice in thinking up mundane ways in which this could work.

I can think of a number of ways that the information about where the coins are might not come through some strange field suround the coins and its effect effect on a pendulum but instead from other observers in the room who just saw where the coins were and comminucated back to your concious mind through the ideomotor effect.

I can think of a number of ways that your guesses could be improved by simple observations of the lie of the paper, surroundings and knowledge of the people who placed the coins.

I can think of a few more ways in which poor results or partial successes could be misconstrued as working "every time (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLq2-uZd5LY)"

But of course they are all pretty well understood methods. Even if I don't know which ones might be in play in your experiences I know how they would work.

Most of the time when people claim that dowsing really works they're suggesting that it works through means that are not understood in other words paranormal means. It may be that if they're right that one day such means will be understood and no longer considered paranormal or it may be that such issues are forever unknowable.

Please be specific where do you stand on this.

[CJOS]

Hi Matt

My stance on the paranormal is that when some one can show evidence in scientific terms then I will accept it. However if some one as a belief then I respect that, although I have burst their bubble in some instances when they ask for an honest opinion, I don't expect to win any popularity merits when folk ask me for my point of view. I was recently questioned on what job a friends friend does for a living, I instantly replied that it may sound silly but she reads Tarot cards for a living, of course I was wrong she actually is a palmist and although I was secretly surprised at my intuition I did'nt question it however having wrote it now it has made me think what the odds are of getting so close. Amazing if you could apply the same to predicting the Lotto, no chance.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

Hi Matt

My stance on the paranormal is that when some one can show evidence in scientific terms then I will accept it. However if some one as a belief then I respect that, although I have burst their bubble in some instances when they ask for an honest opinion, I don't expect to win any popularity merits when folk ask me for my point of view. I was recently questioned on what job a friends friend does for a living, I instantly replied that it may sound silly but she reads Tarot cards for a living, of course I was wrong she actually is a palmist and although I was secretly surprised at my intuition I did'nt question it however having wrote it now it has made me think what the odds are of getting so close. Amazing if you could apply the same to predicting the Lotto, no chance.

There are 14 million combinations for the lottery and it's completely random (allegedly).

There are less than 14 million classifications of jobs, a lot less than that. There are also social cues that can give you a bit of an idea. Things you might have heard or seen and not realised the significance.

So roughly guessing someone's job doesn't really compare. O0

I know you aren't really comparing them (I hope), but it's worth pointing out the differences are huge on the scale of probability.

And anyway, someone does luckily get 6 numbers on the lottery most weeks O0

[Matt]

I can tell you what pretty much all of my friends do for a living.

[skbuncks]

I can tell you what pretty much all of my friends do for a living.

But what about what...


...a friends friend does for a living...

skb

[Matt]

But what about what...



skb

Depends if they're introduced as "a work friend" ;-)

But yeah mea culpa, I misread.

[chillzero]

With regards to my past readings .

Karen 23 years old approx was working for many years in a care home, never been away abroad. I advised her that she would be going to America on a Holiday at which time she would meet a member of the Navy and whilst she was there fall pregnant and marry the guy. As I said the reading was done for the next twelve months. The amazing thing is that she having wrote this down with myself having a copy we could compare. Yes the events were true, how , why , I don't know, I don't claim anything as I don't understand why a monthly prediction can work unless she followed it to the book. All I can say how pleased I was when they came to the UK and she presented me to her Husband who was in the Navy and there child. Just one example of which remains unexplained or can it ?


How disappointing that just after you state you understand the power of suggestion, you supply an excellent example but attribute it to something paranormal.

[CJOS]

How disappointing that just after you state you understand the power of suggestion, you supply an excellent example but attribute it to something paranormal.

Your wrong, Big difference between unexplained and paranormal.

[chillzero]

Your wrong, Big difference between unexplained and paranormal.

Then why did you call it a prediction?

[CJOS]

Then why did you call it a prediction?

Predicting something is not Paranormal ? Weathermen do it on a daily basis

[chillzero]

Predicting something is not Paranormal ? Weathermen do it on a daily basis

So are you admitting that when you do a 'reading' for someone you are using various available knowledge to tell them something through non-paranormal means, and that your act of telling them something may indeed influence what they later make decisions about, therefore creating the appearance of prediction when no such thing has ocurred?

[CJOS]

So are you admitting that when you do a 'reading' for someone you are using various available knowledge to tell them something through non-paranormal means, and that your act of telling them something may indeed influence what they later make decisions about, therefore creating the appearance of prediction when no such thing has ocurred?

Not for me to prove or disprove. I just wrote it has it was. I keep an open mind on these matters, you mentioned paranormal, this is why things get twisted. if there was a proven science behind my reading then as previously mentioned it could be applied to such things as the Lotto, unfortunately, I haven't been so lucky in luck.

[chillzero]

you mentioned paranormal, this is why things get twisted
I'm not twisting anything. I'm delighted when I see people acknowledge that readings are not paranormal ... it just makes me wonder why they offer readings in the first place.... and why they hold up those readings as evidence of .... 'something unproven'.

[Fabriella]

Hi, I went to see Sally over a year ago. She charges £150 for an hour. I was vulnerable having recently gone through a divorce. I can say the following because even now I have mixed feelings.

She was able to look at a photograph of someone I had a crush on and gave me the name of his ex-girlfriend. She did not tell me the correct country of his birth and I did not offer it.

She was able to tell me that I would be head-hunted for a job which came true seven months later.

She mentioned many names, most of which meant nothing to me but one which I realised was the name of my solicitor who dealt with the sale of my home. I said it did not mean anything to me at the time because I genuinely did not remember it at the time.

She mentioned that I would meet my soulmate by last christmas. I did not and am back with my ex. She did not say that would happen. I am terrified of entering into new relationships because we have been together for almost 27 years. I felt that I could not live my life believing that this man, Richard or Vic would definitely come into my life. I am not convinced that my ex is for life but I would definitely be more confident to meet someone else if we were to split up now. I was a zombie before and still find there are times when I really do not want to go out and socialise etc.

I had a strange dream a few weeks prior where I saw myself in a hospital. It was detailed. The very first sentence Sally said to me was 'Do you work in a hospital? Well, no I do not but I was impressed. I would say that this and the job which I had no prior knowledge of was not information that Sally could have sourced but I still wonder about the large number of names, most of which meant nothing and the fact that my soulmate who in my minds eye looks like the late Heath Ledger still preys on my mind from time to time and I dread the day that I may meet him because I would feel compelled to end the relationship I am in. My current relationship is not perfect, is often frustrating but I sometimes ask myself am I asking for too much. Is the fairy tale of the loving, considerate, truthful, faithful, loyal man too good to be true.

Sally genuine or fake.

She did tell me I was going to come into some money within weeks of our meeting - not much. Well an ex-client paid me back £10, I had given to her three years earlier. There are those who feel that she could not have been referring to as small a sum as £10. How do I know...

Genuine or fake. Was I too quick to give up on my soulmate or was I being sensible and getting on with my life? You tell me. At any rate I will not rush into remarriage just in case she is genuine. That is my dilemna.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

If you read what you've written again then it's looks fairly obvious that she's just told you a lot of generic information that could apply to many people or situations. Obviously I wasn't there, but then how well do you remember exactly what you were told?


Hi, I went to see Sally over a year ago. She charges £150 for an hour. I was vulnerable having recently gone through a divorce. I can say the following because even now I have mixed feelings.

She was able to look at a photograph of someone I had a crush on and gave me the name of his ex-girlfriend. She did not tell me the correct country of his birth and I did not offer it.



How many ex-girlfriends does he have? How specific was Sally with names? How many did she come out with? I bet she didn't give you a forename AND surname, that would be impressive. Nor did she give you one forename (I'll bet) and stick to that. Did she mention names in relation to the photo and you decided it was an ex-girlfriend the name related to?


She was able to tell me that I would be head-hunted for a job which came true seven months later.


Did she give you a timescale? This is a pretty generic open-ended type of prediction. It's potentially going to happen to a lot of people given enough time. Particularly if you had already revealed at some point what your job was - some jobs are headhunted more than others.


She mentioned many names, most of which meant nothing to me but one which I realised was the name of my solicitor who dealt with the sale of my home. I said it did not mean anything to me at the time because I genuinely did not remember it at the time.

There you go, she mentioned many names. Which you say meant nothing. Surely by chance she was going to get a name at some point which was relevant to someone in your life at that time?


She mentioned that I would meet my soulmate by last christmas. I did not and am back with my ex. She did not say that would happen. I am terrified of entering into new relationships because we have been together for almost 27 years. I felt that I could not live my life believing that this man, Richard or Vic would definitely come into my life. I am not convinced that my ex is for life but I would definitely be more confident to meet someone else if we were to split up now. I was a zombie before and still find there are times when I really do not want to go out and socialise etc.

Making predictions about relationships is easy. Most people have relationships at some point, and as you say, you were troubled by this aspect at the time. She appears to have made a vague prediction which had every chance of coming true (even though it didn't!).



I had a strange dream a few weeks prior where I saw myself in a hospital. It was detailed. The very first sentence Sally said to me was 'Do you work in a hospital? Well, no I do not but I was impressed.

Why? She was completely wrong about you working in a hospital. I've been to hospitals in the UK and France in the last 2 months. Both for myself and a family member. Almost anyone can relate to a link with a hospital within the last few months or in the near future. Remember, she got this completely wrong and yet you are making it fit for her.


I would say that this and the job which I had no prior knowledge of was not information that Sally could have sourced but I still wonder about the large number of names, most of which meant nothing and the fact that my soulmate who in my minds eye looks like the late Heath Ledger still preys on my mind from time to time and I dread the day that I may meet him because I would feel compelled to end the relationship I am in. My current relationship is not perfect, is often frustrating but I sometimes ask myself am I asking for too much. Is the fairy tale of the loving, considerate, truthful, faithful, loyal man too good to be true.

She played guessing games by the sound of it. Threw out loads of names and made some vague predictions about jobs and relationships. You are making it fit more than it does. I understand you may feel vulnerable but please don't base you life on anything this vile woman has told you. She's taken 150 quid from you for this remember.


Sally genuine or fake.

She did tell me I was going to come into some money within weeks of our meeting - not much. Well an ex-client paid me back £10, I had given to her three years earlier. There are those who feel that she could not have been referring to as small a sum as £10. How do I know...

Some money - another completely generic and common prediction. Everyone comes into some money at some point. I won the lottery last night, a tenner.


Genuine or fake. Was I too quick to give up on my soulmate or was I being sensible and getting on with my life? You tell me. At any rate I will not rush into remarriage just in case she is genuine. That is my dilemna.

You seem to be thinking that Sally has some say in what is going to happen in your life via her predictions. That is completely untrue. What happens to you depends on what you do, not what some rip-off merchant makes up on the spot.

Don't take any offence in what I say, you've been the victim of a disgusting woman who charges large sums of money to dispense horribly generic advice and predictions. The fact she charges £150 for such a shameful collection of mistruths makes me sad.

[Fabriella]

Hi,

I really like the way you dissected what I said and answered it point by point. Remembering what she said was easy because she gave us a recording of the session. But ... I agree that I was duped and agree with all your comments. I will never pay for a reading again.

Thanks Fabriella

[CalamityKate]

Hi,

I really like the way you dissected what I said and answered it point by point. Remembering what she said was easy because she gave us a recording of the session. But ... I agree that I was duped and agree with all your comments. I will never pay for a reading again.

Thanks Fabriella

I'd be interested to read a transcript of the recording, if you ever felt like writing it down :)

[nixster]

[QUOTE=FarSideOfTheMoon;15431]A thousand and one people would appear to want to meet her:

http://www.unrealitytv.co.uk/reality-tv/sally-morgan-star-pyshcic/

Here are some of the most disturbing:





mercy stillman said









And a lot more besides. If this isn't a reminder of why we need to constantly challenge these psychic morons, I don't know what is.

I just can't imagine how devastated some of these people would be if they knew the truth.


Nixster Says;
Can you ACTUALLY PROVE SALLY MORGAN IS A FAKE? i am planning on visiting sally in june and from watching her shows unlike many others she actually seems genuine and i hope to prove that by meeting her and getting a message from someone i've lost and if i do i will let you know because i don't think sally is a fake!!!

[tolman]

Nixster Says;
Can you ACTUALLY PROVE SALLY MORGAN IS A FAKE? i am planning on visiting sally in june and from watching her shows unlike many others she actually seems genuine and i hope to prove that by meeting her and getting a message from someone i've lost and if i do i will let you know because i don't think sally is a fake!!!
Please be careful, and read up on cold/hot reading first.

There are lots of people around who honestly believe they've had a genuine psychic reading.

However, some of those people obviously are mistaken.

Some people believe they've had genuine readings when they have actually had a 'fake' reading from a 'genuine' magician/mentalist, who later explains what they've done.

There are some other people who have been misled by people who were deliberately doing the same thing, but didn't admit it.

Then there are yet other people who have been misled by people who have unconsciously picked up the same techniques, but who genuinely believe they are psychic.

Putting any kind of numbers to how many people are in which of the above categories is not easy, but the fact that even some people can be misled does mean people should be cautious about an apparently successful reading being taken as 'proof'. Also, intelligence , etc are not necessarily any great protection against ending up being misled.

It's extremely easy for people to think they've been told something hidden when in fact they gave the thing away themselves, or gave clues away, or were responding subtly to fishing for information.
A recording and transcript of a 'successful' reading often don't seem as positive and clear-cut as the person being read to remembers the events as being.

[tolman]

i am planning on visiting sally in june and from watching her shows unlike many others she actually seems genuine
Without wanting to specifically refer to any individual, even if there were a whole load of people who were all non-genuine, some would probably seem more genuine than others.

If there was a room full of people making similar claims, and I thought many of them were con-artists (that is, I thought they were poor con-artists), I'd hope I'd think twice before trusting any of the remainder simply because they seemed more convincing than the others.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

Nixster Says;
Can you ACTUALLY PROVE SALLY MORGAN IS A FAKE? i am planning on visiting sally in june and from watching her shows unlike many others she actually seems genuine and i hope to prove that by meeting her and getting a message from someone i've lost and if i do i will let you know because i don't think sally is a fake!!!

There are few things I've ever been more sure about if I'm being completely honest.

[Julia]

It isn't up to sceptics to prove that Sally Morgan is a fake. SHE is the one making outlandish claims - the sort of claims which, despite well over a century of investigation, have never been verified. It's up to Sally Morgan to provide irrefutable evidence that she has these powers.

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you!

[Drop Bear]

I was an amateur astrologer for a decade. through the 1970's . I can pretty much guarantee I could convince you one-to-one "there's something in astrology",especially if you're gullible enough to give money to see an alleged psychic.


I do not believe in psychics, precognition or fortune telling of any kind. My single reason is that there is no evidence. Period.


What I mean by evidence is validation of psychic claims using rigorous scientific method. Proofs must repeatable at will.

There are a lot of sincere frauds,I was one. Was a time was convinced I was psychic,and that astrology was simply my method. This belief was constantly reinforced by my clients.(I never accepted money).

I became deconverted from this belief by the simple expedient of keeping written records of everything,and examining what I'd actually written a couple of years latter. I never actually made ONE specific prediction.At best used weasel words such as 'could', 'may' 'might,or even 'probably'; I NEVER said ' WILL' or 'WILL NOT'. This was not conscious trickery,but simply what I'd been taught and the normal method of astrologers.

One of the most basic tricks of cold reading and all fortune telling is lack of specificity. A psychic will NEVER say 'I have a message for "Francis St John Finch- Choldomley" or indeed 'James Frederick Smith' Instead they will use a common first name or single initial. THAT is the simplest indicator of fraud.

The link below features James Randi and British psychic Doris Collins. At one point Doris claims that no one has the qualifications to test her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwy4yB8cSwE

[DijonMustard]

I used to think Sally was a fake until I went to go see her live and saw a documentary about her. She seems very genuine. Her husband is not even a firm believer in what she does. I saw a part in the documentary where she returned to the childhood home where she first had her experiences and she burst into floods of tears remembering all the spirit people she saw.
However, I don't think she should charge for readings for sell her books. She is making ALOT of money. That doesn't mean she's a fake though. If I had the ability to "tune into" a different world, I would make money from it too. She explains her ability by saying it's something in the brain, like a switch, which is turned on in some people and not in others. It's a very convincing explanation.
Perhaps the whole psychic thing is an extra sense we humans have in our brains, but are just not able to use. Very much like how dogs can tell when their owners are returning home (even when it's at different times). Dogs have a genuine sixth sense. They're not out to fool anyone or be fake. Some humans could have a similar thing in their brain. Whether it's linked to spirituality is another thing. It could simply be a biological factor. Something we don't understand. Plus there are genuine scientists out there who reckon they have evidence of telepathy and all that shite.

[Julia]

I used to think Sally was a fake until I went to go see her live and saw a documentary about her.

Why did you originally believe her to be a fake? Did you do any research into cold reading and confirmation bias before you saw her live, and did this documentary include any contributions from sceptics?


She seems very genuine. Her husband is not even a firm believer in what she does.

All successful frauds seem very genuine - that's what makes them successful. I really don't see why her husband's attitude is relevant, although I suspect that by telling people this they both make her story sound even more convincing.


I saw a part in the documentary where she returned to the childhood home where she first had her experiences and she burst into floods of tears remembering all the spirit people she saw.

Oh, come on! The ability to turn on the waterworks doesn't make a person convincing. In fact it's a well-known trait of money-grubbing American televangelists.


She is making A LOT of money. That doesn't mean she's a fake though.

No-one here is saying that because Sally Morgan is making a lot of money she must be a fake. We're saying that she uses exactly the same methods as other notorious fakes.


She explains her ability by saying it's something in the brain, like a switch, which is turned on in some people and not in others. It's a very convincing explanation.

Perhaps the whole psychic thing is an extra sense we humans have in our brains, but are just not able to use.

Just suppose, for the sake of argument, that such an ability had evolved in the first place. Do you think it's likely that such a valuable asset - which would have given animals a huge advantage in the struggle to survive and reproduce - could have been suppressed or lost by the majority of modern humans?


Very much like how dogs can tell when their owners are returning home (even when it's at different times). Dogs have a genuine sixth sense.

Evidence, please. If you're thinking of Jaytee the dog, whose telepathic abilities were validated by none other than the incredibly gullible Rupert Sheldrake, you are simply mistaken.


They're not out to fool anyone or be fake.

Animals don't need to fool anyone or be fake. Owners and pseudo-scientific researchers with a deep-seated need to believe in psychic phenomena are more than capable of doing the job for them.


It could simply be a biological factor. Something we don't understand.

"Biological" in what sense? And how long do we have to wait before some solid evidence turns up and makes us understand?


Plus there are genuine scientists out there who reckon they have evidence of telepathy...

The vast majority of scientists do NOT claim to have evidence of telepathy and other psychic phenomena, for the simple reason that there is NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE.



...and all that shite.

Now there we are in complete agreement. ;)

[Croydon Bob]

It's a very convincing explanation.

;D I don't think so.

[polomint38]

.

DijonMustard >:-). This is UKSkeptics, I for one want to know what ColemansMustard thinks on this subject, not some french wannabe. :tongue:

P.S. the word french is purposefully in lowercase as the only nationalities that should be capitalised are Irish, Scottish, Welsh and English (in that order) >:D

[Drop Bear]

P.S. the word french is purposefully in lowercase as the only nationalities that should be capitalised are Irish, Scottish, Welsh and English (in that order) >:D

Absolutely--except for english,which is really an odd ad mixture of many groups,with sadly very little Celt.::)

Biased? ME?


Certainly not! I'm 4th generation Aussie. Dad's people left Clare in 1870,mum's left Galway during The Hunger. My family is still thinking about forgiving the english for Cromwell.

[Croydon Bob]

My family is still thinking about forgiving the english for Cromwell.

It wasn't that bad. Timothy Dalton is quite good as Rupert... oh... you didn't mean the film?

[kayle]

I am sorry if this issue has been brought up many times and has become stupid.
What about readings on people who don't understand (in this case) English?
Well, I am not from the UK. I am a translator, doing my best to spoil the English language day and night :)
Just playing with the idea of going to some of these shows and hoping to hear the lovely Sally mention my Grangranmother's name Zeltīte (pronounced Zahlteete) [ah, the weird looking 5th letter (if it will be displayed correctly) represents the 'ee'sound].
On the other hand, the UK is full of people from various countries (with non-'pronouncable' names, like Polish or the likes;) ). Don't they ever go to see Sally? Or are their (relative's) ghosts unable to convey their gibberish to Sally-likes?
To cut it short... Do ghosts have a Ghost-Esperanto, or not?

[kayle]

ah, it seems that the letters are displayed correctly.
then I wonder if Sally-likes can tell me what my Grangrangranfather Ūsiņš was like ;D

[skbuncks]

I am sorry if this issue has been brought up many times and has become stupid.
What about readings on people who don't understand (in this case) English?
Well, I am not from the UK. I am a translator, doing my best to spoil the English language day and night :)
Just playing with the idea of going to some of these shows and hoping to hear the lovely Sally mention my Grangranmother's name Zeltīte (pronounced Zahlteete) [ah, the weird looking 5th letter (if it will be displayed correctly) represents the 'ee'sound].
On the other hand, the UK is full of people from various countries (with non-'pronouncable' names, like Polish or the likes;) ). Don't they ever go to see Sally? Or are their (relative's) ghosts unable to convey their gibberish to Sally-likes?
To cut it short... Do ghosts have a Ghost-Esperanto, or not?

Non English/foreign nationals are pretty much guaranteed to be a minority in any given audience. The psychic performer will tend to pick common British/English names to get a hit then work it from there. Have a look at the Gary Mannion threads and you will find that despite the fact he is channelling/communing with the biblical Abraham said mythical character speaks in English and is white Caucasian. Go figure?

skb

[skbuncks]

I'm back again.
Firstly, forgot to say hi, and welcome to UKS.
Secondly, well lets see where we can go with this.

I am sorry if this issue has been brought up many times and has become stupidredundant.
What about readings on people who don't understand (in this case) English?
I'm not aware of Sally ever conducting readings in a foreign language. I would be pretty impressed if she could pull this off. However, that said:
If we imagine the scenario where someone such as yourself goes for a reading and Sally 'communes' with a past over relative who didn't speak a word of English and yet somehow passes on a message to Sally despite her inability to understanding a word of said relatives mother language..well...I can, with 100% accuracy, predict good old Sal's response:
Psychic powers surpass mere mundane linguistic barriers (or smething to that effect, probably involving the word quantum somewhere).


Well, I am not from the UK. I am a translator, doing my best to spoil the English language day and night :)
Don't knock yourself. Your grammar and spelling is pretty much on the mark. O0 (certainly better than mine).


Just playing with the idea of going to some of these shows and hoping to hear the lovely Sally mention my Grangranmother's name Zeltīte (pronounced Zahlteete) [ah, the weird looking 5th letter (if it will be displayed correctly) represents the 'ee'sound].
On the other hand, the UK is full of people from various countries (with non-'pronouncable' names, like Polish or the likes;) ). Don't they ever go to see Sally? Or are their (relative's) ghosts unable to convey their gibberish to Sally-likes?
To cut it short... Do ghosts have a Ghost-Esperanto, or not?
That is one thing you can pretty much guarantee she will not do. Cold reading 101 dictates that she will pick common English/British names and hope for hit. Given a big enough, or gullible enough, audience she will get a hit.
If you were to go to one of her shows and be 'lucky' enough for a reading then push for the names of some relatives. I would pay t see her squirm her way through that.
As for spirit Esperanto (love the turn of words by the way O0), well your description of it says it all. Spirits converse in the universal language of the soul.

skb

ETA: Just in case, some background reading.
http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/Cold_Reading
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_reading

[kayle]

Thanks for the welcome.:)

I was rather trying to figure out what the sally-likes do in situations where there are people of other origin, speaking other languages. And if there are good examples how it does (or rather does not) work.

I am not interested in what gibberish she would deliver to me. I just got curios how she would come out of the situation.

But yes. Most likely she would claim that my Grandgrandmother's name [Zahlteete] has some resemblance to, say, Sally :) And than go on with the usual stuff. As most likely I would remain 'close' to her cold reading, she would probably tell me that 'my' spirits have not come with me but have stayed in my country to guard my home, for example. And then probably try to convey some horoscope like message received from some helpful local spirit.:)

[kayle]

To clear where I stand, I am a skeptic. :)

I have been reading ukskeptics for some time, and decided to register.

I have the possibility to watch the Russian answer to Psychic Challenge. It is called The Battle of Psychics. If I am not mistaken , only one set of it was done in the UK. In Russia, they are airing Season(or set) 9. Yes, it means nine times 10-12 contestants... And hundreds coming to the qualification round.
The fact that they are doing it by a script is so appallingly obvious... The same pattern every season/set: There are always two or three 'psychics' who are there to be laughed at, clearly. And then, approximately in the 4th or 5th episode, the producers will have pointed out 3 or 4 obviously outstanding 'psychics'. I have so far never failed to tell who would make it to the final :). Among these three finalists there is always a person who had just come to the qualification, for example, to accompany someone else, or just had passed by incidentally :D And then it turns out that he/she is a hidden treasure.
Miraculously, these three or four favorites become better and better as the contest goes on ( seems like they need some warming up like athletes do).
Well, one could say it's a show. Just enjoy it. But the truth is bitter. These winners become tremendously popular. Russia, with an audience of over 200 million (Russia and Russian-speaking former USSR republics), is a huge market, mind you. These super and real psychics who have 'won' the Battle of Psychics charge amounts like thousands of pounds. People take loans to pay for visits to them, just to realise they have achieved nothing. Ah, but the loan has to be repaid...

Ah yes, the producers of The Battle of Psychics announced (at least in the early sets, I think they are not doing it anymore) that the winners would take part in Rand's challenge. From what I've found on randi.org, only one of the winners, a woman who claims to be able to find people (in car boots, boxes) has applied. They have agreed that she would find a person in a classroom from among many classrooms, she herself being in the hallway.

[Matt]

Non English/foreign nationals are pretty much guaranteed to be a minority in any given audience. The psychic performer will tend to pick common British/English names to get a hit then work it from there. Have a look at the Gary Mannion threads and you will find that despite the fact he is channelling/communing with the biblical Abraham said mythical character speaks in English and is white Caucasian. Go figure?

skb

That's not Abraham, it's clearly Alec Guiness playing a practical joke on Gary. I'd recognise the voice anywhere.

And if that's the case, now that Gary has taken Obi Wan to a Mind Body Spirit Festival we can get an opinion on how it compares to Mos Eisley spaceport in the "Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy" stakes >:D

[Julia]

I vaguely remember an incident in which Sylvia Browne supplied information to a German member of the audience during the taping of an American TV show and blamed his lack of response on the fact that he didn't speak fluent English. Does anyone else remember this?

And no, I don't think any British medium would risk giving a reading to anyone other than a white Briton.

[kayle]

So the conclusion might be that the channels the spirits have access to are language, culture, origin and even community restricted. Just like local TV channels. And no subtitles :)

[kayle]

I vaguely remember an incident in which Sylvia Browne supplied information to a German member of the audience during the taping of an American TV show and blamed his lack of response on the fact that he didn't speak fluent English. Does anyone else remember this?

And no, I don't think any British medium would risk giving a reading to anyone other than a white Briton.

That Russian Psychic Challenge has turned this language barrier in an advantage. It is however the other way round: some of the psychics are usually not of Russian origin (they have had psychics from Korea, Syria and other exotic locations). So they speak bad Russian, which gives them (and the producers!) even more room for foggy interpretations. These psychics often are (or pretend) to be struggling to find the right word, usually uttering some noises and making hand movements. And then the background voice comes in, saying 'see, the psychic just clearly showed a stabbing movement!!! (or whatever else is needed for the story).

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

There is a form of special pleading used by psychics as to why the spirits always speak the same language as them. I'm sure I've posted a version of it elsewhere on here at some point. It's laughable except people believe it!

[dandelion]

sally morgan and harry hill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-HbhY7qBJE

[dandelion]

[QUOTE=FarSideOfTheMoon;15431]A thousand and one people would appear to want to meet her:

http://www.unrealitytv.co.uk/reality-tv/sally-morgan-star-pyshcic/

Here are some of the most disturbing:





mercy stillman said









And a lot more besides. If this isn't a reminder of why we need to constantly challenge these psychic morons, I don't know what is.

I just can't imagine how devastated some of these people would be if they knew the truth.


Nixster Says;
Can you ACTUALLY PROVE SALLY MORGAN IS A FAKE? i am planning on visiting sally in june and from watching her shows unlike many others she actually seems genuine and i hope to prove that by meeting her and getting a message from someone i've lost and if i do i will let you know because i don't think sally is a fake!!!

there's one born every minute and these psychics know that

[openminded]

I don't normally watch this sort of crass TV as it's all set up behind the scenes and scripted to make the psychics look good.

But this was on in the background whilst I was on MSN so I left it on.

I can't believe what I'm seeing. ???

Every single test that she's undergone has been an amazing success!! It's so blatantly scripted that I can't believe they have the temerity to broadcast it. Surely they're giving the game away - or are believers really so gullible that they'll fall for it?

Probably - going by the adverts for text messages to find 'your one true love' at £3.00 per text message.

It's more like an infomercial than a TV programme.


I have to say that Sally Morgan has me foxed. nine out of ten times she is amazingly accurate. On watiching closely she doesn't declare that the deceased is with her on stage until the audience member has confirmed that old granny so and so had passed to spirit. I would like to meet her so as to read her aura and read her.

[dandelion]

you could give her a call on her premium rate telephone line.

[Julia]

I have to say that Sally Morgan has me foxed. nine out of ten times she is amazingly accurate. On watiching closely she doesn't declare that the deceased is with her on stage until the audience member has confirmed that old granny so and so had passed to spirit. I would like to meet her so as to read her aura and read her.

openminded, I get the impression that you're not well-informed about how cold reading works.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

openminded, I get the impression that you're not well-informed about how cold reading works.

Nor how television programmes are put together.