Is believing in Xmas good or bad for children?

[Admin]

I saw this today: http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006570270,00.html

Yes, it's The Sun (must be true then :D) but the replies brought me back to a subject that I've discussed before without ever getting a good answer. Notice how some people are almost fanatical about protecting the idea that Xmas, and believing in Santa, is something magical and to take it away from them is almost tantamount to child abuse!

So:

Is encouraging the belief in Santa really a good thing for children or is it teaching them to believe in irrational concepts?

My own (not set in stone) view is that children up until the age of 5 or 6 do not have much concept of the difference between reality and fantasy and so up to that age the belief in Santa does them no harm.

I do think, however, that attempting to perpetuate the myth beyond the age that children can, or should be able to, discern reality from fantasy is not healthy for them.

Any comments either way? That it's completely harmless at any age or that we should not instil this kind of thinking in children at any age? ???

[Cuddles]

I always wonder how many children actually believe in Santa at any age. As you say, very young children don't really understand the difference between reality and stories, so they can't really be said to believe in anything. I don't think I have known any children that didn't know that Santa was actually their parents by the time they were 6 or 7, either through catching them at it, or from simple logic - my parents bought presents, I'm not allowed in their room, presents appear under tree, there are no longer presents in parents room.

Worrying about Santa is like worrying about Harry Potter. Yes, it's technically a lie, but no child actually believes either of them are real. It's simply a bit of fun to spice up the holiday and allow everyone to be a bit silly. I think pretending Santa is real encourages magic thinking in the same way pretending Harry Potter is real causes children to pratice black magic.

As far as the article in the Sun is concerned, this was brought up on the JREF forum as well. It should be noted that she was only a supply teacher and it is possible that her contract was not renewed, rather than being sacked. Other papers also implied that there were other problems, so it was probably a legitimate sacking rather than anything to do with Santa. This is likely similar to the recent case where someone was reportedly thrown out of university for arguing with someone's religion, when in fact he was a known troublemaker and was thrown out for entirely legitimate reasons.

[Jocky]

Mum Amanda Piovesana, 30, said her daughter was shocked to be told: “You are old enough to know there is no Santa or fairies. If you ask your parents they will also say there is no such thing.” Amanda said: “It’s taken away the magic.” The mum of another pupil ... said: “Everyone is disgusted.”

Any parent who can't cope with their nine-year old being told this is being unrealistic, not to mention rather pathetic. Within months, these children will be deemd to have criminal responsibility - but this mum thinks they can't cope with knowing the truth about Santa ::)

I agree with cuddles that most children of that age do not really, truly believe: they are only pretending, going along with it for the sake of parents/younger siblings/a quiet life/whatever. It is definitely doing them no favours to prolong the pretence.

I took a conscious decision when I became a parent to be truthful about Santa: as far as my daughter (nearly 4) is concerned, Santa is a fun game which we play at Christmas, but he is no more real than the pixies or Bob the Builder (both of which she knows are only pretend). But she still loves Christmas - there is no need at all to tell her whopping lies in order for her to enjoy the experience of time spent giving and receiving presents with the family.

It seems to me that thinking patterns are very heavily influenced by experience in early childhood. If you learn to mix reality with fantasy early on, you may have difficulty in distinguishing them in later life. I think I am doing my children a favour by teaching them to think critically about what they're told - and I'm sure that I am not depriving them of anything at all by doing so.

[Admin]

I was once in a similar debate where a woman stated that she was having a problem with her young son as he was frightened by the idea of Santa Claus. He was scared by the fact that this ethereal man could get into his house.

There was all sorts of advice from people trying to give strategies on how to get the child used to the idea of Santa.

Then, a nasty, evil skeptic (me :D) butted in and suggested that it may be better to tell the child that Santa isn't real as he was so afraid of the idea.

You'd think I was supporting paedophilia :o

I came to the conclusion that the need for kids to believe in Santa was more important to the parents than it was for the kids! ;)

I agree with others - I think that the belief in Santa is not particularly strong in kids and once they're a little older they role play as much as their parents do.

For me, Xmas was all about presents - then again, this could be why I'm a materialistic, debunking, close-minded skeptic!! ;D

[Nettles]

Frightened by the idea that a Greek man who died more than a thousand years ago can sneak into your house through the ventilation system?

(And yes, that was the way I put it to the headmistress of my first daughter's nursery school in explaining why I wanted her to have nothing to do with somebody dressed up as The Non-Judgemental Demigod Claus.)

When people hear that our children don't have Christmas, they sometimes react as though they're victims of child abuse.

I've written elsewhere that it's good to grow up knowing that the people around you believe in nonsense, but that there's nothing you can do about it. It's sort of the reverse of Linus believing in The Great Pumpkin.

[Outsider]

Hmm. My son was afraid of wee Willie Winkie for a week or so but I don't think it did him any harm. I don't think telling a child a mythical story is bad for them, in fact I would think that it might help encourage them to use their imagination. It's perfectly natural for a child to be curious and ask questions if they feel something doesn't add up...and we'll respond to them in the way we feel is right. Well, at least I hope parents respond to their kids...

Thinking about it, most of these stories were and still are used as a form of controlling kids into doing what parents want -
'If-you're-still-awake-at-midnight-santa-won't-come', or one which my parents used - 'go to bed now or the nine-o-clock-horses-will-come-and-getcha!' which terrified me for 5 minutes but no lasting effect. Ok, I sleep with the light on, but hey! ;)

What pisses me off these days is the apparent over analysis of the possible effects of telling a particular story. I read Enid Blyton* when I was 7. Has that made a racist of me now? Nah. I believed in Santa Claus for a bit too. Does that make me a woo now, unable to separate fact from fantasy? I should bloody hope not, but I do reserve the right to a sense of wonder, even now. I might be sceptical but I'm not a cynic.

*ok, so it was all that was available in the school library 5 million years ago. ::)

[Hazen]

Humbug

[ceptimus]

Santa is a kind of 'God for kids'. He is supposed to know what kids are doing, not only at Christmas, but throughout the year. He's even supposed to know what they're thinking. He rewards good behaviour with presents. He has other God-like powers - he can fly through the sky on a magical sleigh, he can visit all the children of the earth in a single night, and he is able to enter locked buildings without being caught or detected.

Perhaps the whole Santa thing is a just a way of conditioning kids so they are ready to believe in the 'real' God, once they're old enough.

[Nettles]

Santa is a kind of 'God for kids'. He is supposed to know what kids are doing, not only at Christmas, but throughout the year. He's even supposed to know what they're thinking. He rewards good behaviour with presents.


Santa Claus pretends to judge, but of course he really doesn't. Nobody actually gets coal and switches in their stockings. There are no consequences for not living up to Claus's expectations. Claus rewards the righteous and the wicked alike. Yes, he rewards evil.

He's sort of an amoral devil figure who teaches that consumption trumps morals.

I mean, presumably Heinrich Himmler got oranges and little toys in his black-and-silver stocking.

No wonder the wicked cult of Claus attracts more people than do those judgemental deities who are so inconsiderate as to punish evil.

[Jocky]

Claus rewards the righteous and the wicked alike

I agree that using the threat of Santa's disapproval to scare your kids into behaving is a very poor idea.

However, who knows whether or not Claus consistently rewards the "wicked"? Maybe some people actually do withhold presents from their kids as a form of punishment, and then blame Santa for it. I hope not, but you never know ... :(