Indigo children

[median]

Just for info next monday (7th) at 9m Channel 4 the focus of Cutting Edge are psychic children.
The programme focuses on the Children of The New World, an organisation that maintains kids with ADD's are really 'indigo children' (telepathic healers)

Might be one to watch, it's got a rating in Heat, which I..errr..picked a copy from somewhere :eek:

[Admin]

I think Cutting Edge is quite good (or it used to be).

I don't know much about the claims of the parents of 'Indigo Children' - I've set my calander to remind me it's on. Hopefully it will be good.

As always, Skepdic to the rescue: http://www.skepdic.com/indigo.html O0

[Mojo]

As always, Skepdic to the rescue: http://www.skepdic.com/indigo.html O0


How to recognise the Indigo Child:
* They come into the world with a feeling of royalty (and often act like it)
* They have a feeling of "deserving to be here," and are surprised when others don't share that.
* Self-worth is not a big issue. They often tell the parents "who they are."
* They have difficulty with absolute authority (authority without explanation or choice).
* They simply will not do certain things; for example, waiting in line is difficult for them.
* They get frustrated with systems that are ritually oriented and don't require creative thought.
* They often see better ways of doing things, both at home and in school, which makes them seem like "system busters" (nonconforming to any system).
* They seem antisocial unless they are with their own kind. If there are no others of like consciousness around them, they often turn inward, feeling like no other human understands them. School is often extremely difficult for them socially.
* They will not respond to "guilt" discipline ("Wait till your father gets home and finds out what you did").
* They are not shy in letting you know what they need.


They need a good clip round the ear?

A good working definition of the word "brat" is "someone elses child who behaves like your own"... ;)

[median]

Add to this that have blond hair and have telepathic and you have the Midwich Cuckoos :o :o

[tkingdoll]

I think this Indigo Children fad could be quite dangerous. Firstly, you could get parents self-diagnosing when the kid actually has something that should be seen to by a doctor (ADD for example, or even Autism). And secondly, how screwed up is your kid going to be if s/he believes s/he has special powers? I mean, come on. That's gonna make for some pretty crummy adults in 15 years time.

Of course a parent would rather believe their child is a psychic healer than has behaviour or learning difficulties. But to treat them as a special angel instead of seeking treatment or therapy is going to be dangerous.

From the Skepdic article:
These children don't need drugs like Ritalin, but special care and training.

Come on, that's gotta be bad for society in the long-term. It's cleary bad for the welfare of the children involved. I wonder what Social Services would think about a parent who is going down the Indigo route rather than the medication route when their kid is on his fourth ASBO?

[Admin]

From what I know, kids who genuinely have ADHD do benefit from Ritalin. I think the major problem is that too many kids are being diagnosed with ADHD (and similar) when it's not actually the case. Of course, Ritalin is inappropriate for these kids and this is where so much controversy comes from. It's the misdiagnosis (or too keen a diagnosis) of ADHD that's the problem, not the use of Ritalin per se.

This is a separate issue from Indigo Children however.

I agree this is a dangerous fad. It obviously appeals to parents. If the choice is: you're child is special vs your child has something wrong with it, the emotional appeal is to wish your child is special.

Of course, if a child has a problem and it could benefit from some medical intervention then by choosing wishful thinking over reality all that really happens is that the child is denied the beneficial treatment it requires.

[median]

Initial comments on Cutting Edge

Well, spooky atmospheric music and visuals aside what we seemed to have were two attempts of parents finding ways of explaining possible brain pathology in their offspring.
Heather’s mothers approach was to completely absorb her child into her alternative way of thinking whilst Oliver’s mother tried to seek a possibly more rational solution although the ‘solution’ was to adopt a biofeedback technique which was based upon ‘evidence’ that strong empathisers had ESP ability. For info. Dr Kaur’s site is http://www.eegneurofeedback.net/
As usually, there was the usual loaded questions and suggestion.
More importantly was the non-inclusion of any alternative explanations.

Mind you I had a friend once that used to ‘see dead people’
I had to remind him, though, that he was an undertaker. :D :D

[doubting thomas]

As usually, there was the usual loaded questions and suggestion.
More importantly was the non-inclusion of any alternative explanations.


Agreed, i found the whole programme to be a complete waste of time.

Apart from a little insight into various aspects of rieki with lots of waving of the hands which i found almost to embarrassing to watch.

Why is it many of these people have strange coloured hair and impossible fingernails?

[Gypo]

I am a new poster inspired by the 'indigo children' show.

I cannot believe anyone could swallow some of the shit those 'gurus' were peddling.

I had to laugh when that 'psychic' old woman was asked to describe the child coming to visit her-

She full of life. Funny. Confident. A real loving personality etc etc

Why not offer a physical description.

I might start up my own small religion. Seems to be a piece of piss!!

Who is with me?

I call my religion the 'Sect of the Stella Artois'.

[Oleron]

2 things I remember from the programme:

1. The mother went to see Dr Kaur to get Neurofeedback therapy. This therapy has not been shown to work in any consistent way. See http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/mentserv.html.

2. Even if we do accept Neurofeedback as useful, Dr Kaur gave a diagnosis of 'moderate to severe ADHD'. When she was pushed by the mother, she said that some research in the US linked this sort of brainwave activity to people who claim ESP. She did NOT say that the child was psychic.
Later, when the mother was interviewed about the consultation, the only thing she could remember was that Dr Kaur had said her child had ESP?!?! Talk about selective deafness! She ignored the clear diagnosis of ADHD.


Actually I do remember another bit at the start of the show when the pink-headed loon was asking her children if they thought they were indigo. The girl replied yes but the boy said no and joked that he thought his mum was having a mid-life crisis. His mum nervously quipped that her son was the clown of the family. My irony meter nearly exploded.....

[wollery]

My mother used to teach a kid like that. One parents evening the grandmother came instead of the parents. My mother was trying to be tactful, but the grandmother picked up what my mother meant and responded, "Yes, the trouble is that his mother thinks he pisses champagne!" ;D

[Admin]

I only managed to watch the first 20 minutes this morning but it seems to me that the kids were heavily pressurised by their parents into believing they were psychic or seeing spirits.

Self-fulfilling prophecy?

I'll watch the rest later.

[seren]

I was spitting feathers at this programme. That poor girl didn't display anything that looked anything remotely like psychic ability. I feel so sorry for her- she's so obviously trying to "please mum".

As for the little boy, Oliver. Bless his heart, there's definitely something odd about him. It didn't look like ADHD to me- he seemed more withdrawn and tired. It's such a shame there isn't anything anybody can do for him. He's clearly got some kind of brain wrong, simple as that. I would be fascinated to know more. Did anybody see the programme about brain abnormalities a few years ago? There was a bloke with epilepsy who frequently had religious experiences- all down to a little dodgy wiring in the brain. Fascinating.

But Indigo children? I was horrified.

[Outsider]

Hi! I registered so I could vent some spleen at this prog. Ta!

I'm normally quite impressed with Cutting Edge but this programme was daft and ignorant I thought.

I was concerned about the wee boy. It looked as if he might have temporal lobe epilepsy, but this wasn't even mentioned, even with the EEG (Well, what do you expect from a dr of philosophy- even neuros can't spot TLE sometimes...) I know most of us with a working brain are able to see how deluded these people are but if my child was displaying signs of hallucinating it'd be off to the neuro with him. ADHD, schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder, are all misdiagnoses for TLE. I know of people who have ended up on psych wards because they were given meds which made the TLE worse, and even a couple who have come round after a seizure to find christians praying over them to release the devil from their poor possessed souls. Even nowadays, this happens!

Some people don't know their arse end from their mouth. Tsk. As for the others, hahahahahaaa.

Tut. Indigo kids my arse. It's an excuse for parents whose kids aren't doing very well at school to be proud of them.

[tkingdoll]

Welcome new people!

So, a couple of questions I'm mulling over:

Is the 'indigo child' thing only going to appeal to parents who are already believers in the paranormal, or is it likely to appeal to desperate parents who were previously non-believers but would rather have a nice diagnosis than a difficult one?

If the latter, then could the increase in ADHD diagnoses (accurate and inaccurate) eventually become responsible for a rise in belief in the paranormal?

And, does anyone know if behaviour problems are increasing, or if it's just diagnoses that are increasing? If the former, then that does ring some alarm bells in terms of a potential correlating rise in paranormal belief.

And why is the darn forum so slow? Grrr!

[Jocky]

is it likely to appeal to desperate parents who were previously non-believers but would rather have a nice diagnosis than a difficult one?


[Anecdote alert !]
Based on my personal experience of having an ADHD child in the family (my sister's son) I would say there is a big danger of that. If this Indigo business had been around 10-12 years ago, I can imagine it would have been a very tempting explanation for his parents. Reading the definition (http://www.indigochild.com/) of an Indigo Child is like reading an exact description of Chris, written by somebody who knew him well.

Just like a 'psychic' reading saying that the target "harbours deep-seated insecurities", the Indigo Child description is highly likely to be a hit for most of the target market. The desperation engendered by parenting a very difficult child makes parents very vulnerable to a message saying "Don't worry - your child is special".

Another lesson from my personal experience: a contributory factor to this dangerous level of parental desperation is the failure of the authorities to respond in a supportive and joined-up way. Getting a statement of needs is difficult; every time a child moves school or into the hands of a different carer, psychologist or social worker everything seems to start over from scratch; Diagnoses and proposed treatments fluctuate wildly. If parents start to lose faith in the system, they are bound to cast around for something else to have faith in instead ...


And, does anyone know if behaviour problems are increasing, or if it's just diagnoses that are increasing?

Good question Teek - I dunno. I imagine that this is difficult to measure, in the same way that the "rise in cases of autism" is difficult to separate from improvements in diagnosis techniques.

[seren]

Actually, I think that at least some of those "characteristics" of an Indigo child would apply to ANY child at certain ages. Won't respond to guilt? Won't stand in line? Act like royalty? Yup, that's kids.

[Jocky]

Absolutely, like all the best woo-hooks there's something there for everyone.

"Yup, that's kids" - but, believe me, it's some kids more than others. The behavioural issues for ADHD kids can be really severe, alienating them from everyone: their peers, their teachers, even sometimes their own family. And the worse a child's behaviour becomes, the more desperate for a 'positive' explanation the despairing parents will become ...