Newsnight Thursday 13th July (that's today!)

[Mojo]

There's been a heads-up from David Colquhoun to watch Newsnight this evening.

http://badscience.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=243

He doesn't say what it's going to be, but given his interests...

[Admin]

Fly fishing tips? ???

I suspect it could be something to do with homeopathy (or alt meds at least).

I'll be watching this. O0

[vbloke]

Curses - I'm out tonight and no way to record it (hint, hint).

[Admin]

I've set an alarm to remind me of it.

I'll record it. O0

[Mojo]

Aha! There's not enough evidence for the Society of Homeopaths to do anything about it.

Oh, the irony!

[huw-l]

so did anyone see it?

[vbloke]

Oh yes...

http://badhomeopath.com/?p=20 - my take on it

http://badhomeopath.com/?p=21 - after reading the SOH damage-limiting press release (http://www.homeopathy-soh.org/whats-new/press-releases.aspx)

[Admin]

I like their attempts at damage limitation. Especially this:


However, the historical use of homeopathic remedies to strengthen the individual’s immune system, with the intention of helping prevent infectious diseases, is well documented.

The use of homeopathic remedies... with the intention of... is well documented.

So what?

I could say that my use of Archery, with the intention of helping me learn to levitate, is well documented.

Both weasel-worded statements may be true, but neither one is actually making a claim.

[Admin]

From here: http://www.homeopathy-soh.org/whats-new/fact-sheets.aspx

Did you know that ...?


Celebrities such as Paul McCartney, David Beckham, Twiggy, Caprice, Susan Hampshire, Tina Turner, Louise Jameson, Gaby Roslin, Jude Law, Sadie Frost, Nadia Sawalha and Meera Syal, as well as The Queen are all fans of homeopathy?

And that means it works then does it? ::)

This one is good:


Homeopathy takes a holistic approach, seeking to treat the whole person and patients receive unique treatment and individualised prescriptions?

But they can sell over-the-counter remedies including anti-malarials!


Homeopathy is not a placebo. Homeopathy is proven to be effective in the treatment of babies and animals, who have no preconceptions.

It's a shame that there's no link to the evidence to support this. I wonder why?

[Mojo]

Homeopathy is not a placebo. Homeopathy is proven to be effective in the treatment of babies...

http://www.ukskeptics.com/forum/index.php?topic=179.0

;)

[Jocky]

;D ;D

Thanks Mojo - I'd missed that one.

The complimentary therapy known as DKB works too :) I have anecdotal evidence ...

[vbloke]

From here: http://www.homeopathy-soh.org/whats-new/fact-sheets.aspx

Did you know that ...?
I've just sent an email to Melanie:

I have a number of complaints to make against your Fact Sheet "Homeopathy can seriously improve your health"

Homeopathy can seriously improve your health
Did you know that ...?

* Celebrities such as Paul McCartney, David Beckham, Twiggy, Caprice, Susan Hampshire, Tina Turner, Louise Jameson, Gaby Roslin, Jude Law, Sadie Frost, Nadia Sawalha and Meera Syal, as well as The Queen are all fans of homeopathy?
So what? There are thousands of celebrities who don't use homeopathy.

* Reliable evidence shows that homeopathy is effective in the treatment of common mental health problems, female hormonal disorders (such as PMS) and a range of allergies including eczema?
Where is the research? Please cite your sources.

* Homoeopathic medicines are not tested on animals, but on healthy human volunteers?
As are a lot of real medicines - that's why human testing is in the news.

* Homeopathy treats "like with like"? So coffee, which causes sleeplessness in some people, can be used as a homeopathic treatment to prevent insomnia?
Where is the research? Please cite your sources.

* Homeopathy takes a holistic approach, seeking to treat the whole person and patients receive unique treatment and individualised prescriptions?
As opposed to real medicine which treats groups of people or only looks at their leg? GP's, Doctors, etc. have to take medical history and past case history into account when prescribing medicines.

* Homeopathic remedies have been found to be effective for asthma, hay fever and rhinitis by Dr David Reilly at Glasgow University?
Whereas, homeopathy has been found to be only as effective as placebo by countless others. For example: Linde K, Clausius N, Ramirez G, Melchart D, Eitel F, Hedges LV, Jonas WB. Munchener Modell, Centre for Complementary Medicine Research, Technische Universitat/Ludwig-Maximillans-Universitat, Munchen, Germany.

* Homeopathic treatment can be effective very quickly. For acute complaints (flu, colds, hay fever) 1 or 2 sessions may be all that is needed. For chronic illness, treatment typically lasts between 4 and 8 months with monthly visits to a professional homeopath.
Odd that homeopathy is good at treating self-limiting illnesses, but not as good at treating long-term or chronic illness.

More interesting facts

* Over thirty million people in Europe use homeopathic medicine.
Whereas over 60 million people in the UK alone use real medicine.

* Homeopathy is not just for the rich. GPs are able to refer NHS patients to registered homeopaths and most private health companies consider homeopathic treatment a good investment. Consultation fees range between 30 and 90.
Which is why Homeopathy has been taken off the list of things that Swiss insurance companies will pay out for - it has no basis in science after extensive testing.

* Homeopathy is not just a form of herbalism. Medicines from herbs form about a third of the pharmacy of homeopathy. mineral and animal extracts make up the rest.
Indeed. After diluting to 12C, there's nothing left except solvent.

* Homeopathy is not a placebo. Homeopathy is proven to be effective in the treatment of babies and animals, who have no preconceptions.
Where is the research? Please cite your sources.

* Modern homeopathy was created 200 years ago by a German chemist, Samuel Hahnemann, but he roots of homeopathy go back to Hippocrates.
Hahnemann was not a chemist, he was a doctor. Hippocrates was also a doctor. One of his more notable quotes is: "There are in fact, two things: science, and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance". At the time of Hippocrates, common consensus was that disease was caused by the four humours. This has been disproves time and again and has no place in modern medicine. The creation of homeopathy by Hahnemann was more than likely a result of an allergy to quinine.

Homeopathy - seriously improving your health

* Homeopathy has been available on the NHS since 1948.
Blood letting was practised for centuries, as was trepanning. Should we fund these too?

* There are 5 NHS funded homeopathic hospitals in the UK. The largest, the Royal London Homeopathic Hospital treats around 2,000 patients per week.
For what?

* 45% of GPs consider homeopathy useful. Sixty percent of the doctors who use homeopathy do so because of good experience of homeopathy as effective treatment and anxiety about hazards of conventional treatment (Dr Magazine)
So 55% consider it useless?

* Registered members of the Society of Homeopaths are integrating homeopathy with conventional healthcare in Wiltshire, London and Newcastle taking GP referrals. Elsewhere our members work in Surestart clinics and in specialised services in the NHS.
For what?

* An estimated 3,900 professionals practise homeopathy in the UK
What are the qualifications these people hold? How much medical training have they done? How are they qualified to treat ill people?

* Around 22.1% of adults purchased homeopathic or herbal remedies over the counter in the past 12 months.
So 87.9% didn't. This is a meaningless statistic. You said Homeopathy isn't herbalism, so what percentage of this figure is homeopathy and what percentage is herbal?

* In Britain the market for homeopathy is growing at around 20% per year.
Due to misinformation and ignorance. The Newsnight interview showed that you agreed that homeopathy should not be used to treat Malaria and yet you then stated that it was the very first remedy created. You used the word "proved". Homeopaths use the word proved in a very different way to the general public. If I told you that something was "proved", you would take it to mean that it had been tested and was approved. It is not. You've had almost 200 (not 300 as you claimed) years to test these things out and yet, they fair no better than placebo in clinical trials done by independent researchers.

* The latest pan-European research on homeopathic dilutions has shown that they do affect living human cells (April 2004)
You missed out the Lancet trail in 2005 which showed Homeopathy is no better than placebo.

* 2004 research at Sheffield University on chronic fatigue syndrome has shown that homeopathic treatment can improve energy levels
This research was on a small group and the findings of the paper was that it needed to be repeated with a larger group to ensure proper results. the results achieved were not statistically significant.

The Society of Homeopaths

The Society of Homeopaths was established in 1978 and is the largest organisation representing professional homeopaths in the UK having 2,500 members. The Society sets stringent clinical and administrative practice standards regarding competence, which members must meet. Consequently Society members are trained to very high professional standards, providing the general public with a guarantee of safety and competence. Our members are fully insured.

These standards were not met by your members when visited undercover by the Newsnight crew.

***

I am currently studying homeopathy and all throughout the course, I find the same sloppy procedures - no citing of sources, no clinical trials to back up your claims, appeals to celebrity and royalty, anecdote and belief. I have yet to come across a single example in the course literature of a proper scientific example.

Yours sincerely

The Bad Homeopath

[Jocky]

Good email O0 I bet it won't get a response >:(

BTW Mark, I just tried to add a comment to your blog, but it won't let me - I think it's the firewall >:(

I was going to add a comment about the drivel which "Society Chief Executive, Paula Ross" came out with:


we acknowledge that there is much anecdotal and scientific evidence to support the arguments presented for and against orthodox anti-malarial treatment. We also believe that homeopathy has something to offer in this area. Clearly, this needs more research. Nevertheless, absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of inefficacy

The first sentence contains the (carefully-concealed) implication that "there is much ... scientific evidence to support the arguments presented ... against orthodox anti-malarial treatment".

I strongly suspect that this allegation is totally untrue. Anybody with a better knowledge of current medical research than I care to comment?

[Admin]

Nice one O0

I'd love to the reply too - should you get one.

[Nettles]

* Celebrities such as Paul McCartney, David Beckham, Twiggy, Caprice, Susan Hampshire, Tina Turner, Louise Jameson, Gaby Roslin, Jude Law, Sadie Frost, Nadia Sawalha and Meera Syal, as well as The Queen are all fans of homeopathy?


Kate Moss, Ozzy Osbourne, Robert Downey Jnr ... oh, wait. Those are celebrities who've used other things.

[Mojo]

I like their attempts at damage limitation. Especially this:


However, the historical use of homeopathic remedies to strengthen the individual’s immune system, with the intention of helping prevent infectious diseases, is well documented.


The use of homeopathic remedies... with the intention of... is well documented.

So what?

I could say that my use of Archery, with the intention of helping me learn to levitate, is well documented.

Both weasel-worded statements may be true, but neither one is actually making a claim.


Not necessarily: this claim is actually there: "However, the historical use of homeopathic remedies to strengthen the individual’s immune system ... is well documented."

The intention was to help prevent infectious disease (when used as part of a calorie-controlled diet, perhaps? ;) ), but there is a clear claim that the use of homoeopathic remedies to strengthen the immune system is well documented. No "intention" there.

They need to say what they mean by "strengthening the immune system", and how this is measured and documented.

[Admin]

Yes I see what you mean there. I would say though, that all they're really claiming is that the claim is well documented.

Critical thinkers will look at their statement and quickly work out that there's nothing of substance in it; but most people are not critical thinkers and they will read "well documented" as meaning "there's a lot of well documented evidence".

I could say that my Yogic Flying attempts have been well documented. I'm just leaving out whether the attempts were successful or not.

"the historical use of homeopathic remedies to strengthen the individual’s immune system [...] is well documented" - It leaves out whether such usage was successful or not.

Neat trick!!

[Aardvark]

Kate Moss, Ozzy Osbourne, Robert Downey Jnr ... oh, wait. Those are celebrities who've used other things.



All credible intellectual giants then ?

[vbloke]

no reply as yet...

Methinks she might be a bit snowed under after Newsnight.

[tkingdoll]

Mark, it might have been quicker to simply point out to her that she's breaking Marketing Society rules as her factsheet does not cite sources and makes unsubstantiated specific claims in order to sell a product.

I daresay she's also breaching several other bodies' guidelines too.

Great email though, hope you get a response.

[vbloke]

I know nothing of this Marketing Society - they're obviously not doing a good job! ;D

[tkingdoll]

I know nothing of this Marketing Society - they're obviously not doing a good job! ;D


It's a seekrit between evil marketing people. >:D

[vbloke]

I've had a reply!


We are sorry that this is your experience of studing homeopathy.

There are in fact a huge number of people working in research in
homeopathy throughout the world – below is a selection of some recent
research in this area, as part of a response from a member of our research
committee:

Homeopathy is often accused of being entirely placebo effect but in vitro
research and research on animals suggests otherwise. Results from many
trials indicate that homeopathic remedies have properties that are
different from placebo.

followed by a long list of published articles:


Anelli M, Scheepers L, Sermeus G et al 2002 Homeopathy and health related
quality of life: a survey in six European countries. Homeopathy 91(1):18-21

Bellavite P, Signorini A 2002 The emerging science of homeopathy:
complexity, biodynamics, and nanopharmacology, 2nd edn. North Atlantic
Books, Berkeley

Bertani S, Lussignoli S, Andrioli G et al 1999 Dual effects of a
homeopathic
mineral complex on carrageenan-induced oedema in rats. Br Homoeopath J
88(3):101-105

Endler P C, Schulte J (eds) 1994 Ultra high dilution: physiology and
physics. Kluwer Academic Publishers, Dordrecht, The Netherlands

Ruiz-Vega G, Perez-Ordaz L, Proa-Flores P et al 2000 An evaluation of
Coffea
cruda effect on rats. Br Homeopath J 89(3):122-126

Ruiz-Vega G, Perez-Ordaz L, Leon-Hueramo O, Cruz-Vazquez E, Sanchez-Diaz N
2002 Comparative effect of Coffea cruda potencies on rats. Homeopathy
91:80-84

Schulte J, Endler P C (eds) 1998 Fundamental research in ultra high
dilution
and homoeopathy. Kluwer Academic Publishers, Dordrecht

Spence D, Thompson E A, Barron S J 2005 Homeopathic treatment for chronic
disease: a 6-year university-hospital outpatient observational study. J
Altern Complement Med 11(5):793-798

Sukul N C, Ghosh S, Sinhababu S P et al 2001 Strychnos nux-vomica extract
and its ultra-high dilution reduce voluntary ethanol intake in rats. J
Altern Complement Med 7(2):187-193

van Wassenhoven M, Ives G 2004 An observational study of patients receiving
homeopathic treatment. Homeopathy 93(1):3-11

Witt C, Keil T, Selim D et al 2005a Outcome and costs of homoeopathic and
conventional treatment strategies: a comparative cohort study in patients
with chronic disorders. Complement Ther Med 13(2):79-86

Witt CM, Luedtke R, Baur R, Willich SN 2005b Homeopathic medical practice:
long-term results of a cohort study with 3981 patients. BMC Public Health
Nov 3;5:115

I'll be busy looking these up on pubmed - anyone care to lend a hand?

The first one, Anelli M, Scheepers L, Sermeus G et al 2002 Homeopathy and health related quality of life: a survey in six European countries. Homeopathy 91(1):18-21, appears to be a questionnaire that noted a weak improvement in quality of life - although they go on to say "A new survey should be performed with a better motivation of doctors and patients. Further description of treatment would be helpful."

If this is the best they can throw back at me, I worry for them.

[vbloke]

Actually, having gone through most of them, it looks like non of them were DB, most of them require a severe tightening up of protocols and the conculsions are anything but conclusive.

I'll draft a reply later - I'm too warm now

*cranks fan up another notch*

[Mojo]

I've had a reply!

followed by a long list of published articles:

I'll be busy looking these up on pubmed - anyone care to lend a hand?

The first one, Anelli M, Scheepers L, Sermeus G et al 2002 Homeopathy and health related quality of life: a survey in six European countries. Homeopathy 91(1):18-21, appears to be a questionnaire that noted a weak improvement in quality of life - although they go on to say "A new survey should be performed with a better motivation of doctors and patients. Further description of treatment would be helpful."

If this is the best they can throw back at me, I worry for them.
Well, of the ones I recognise at first glance, Spence was that customer satisfaction survey they published last year, and the first Witt paper was discussed here: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=42366

[Admin]

There's some good links on here: http://www.ebm-first.com/?cat=8

The work of Prof. Edzard Ernst probably carries more weight than any other.

As a Skeptic, I'm always cautious about stating that things don't work (or that the afterlife doesn't exist - that sort of thing) as there's always a chance we could be wrong.

With Homeopathy though, I'm prepared to say that it does not work in any way other than placebo effects. It is just so incredibly ludicrous on every level.

It is quite telling that they have to resort to the type of trials that are run at the Bristol Homeopathic Hospital to get the positive results (by design) that they can keep misleading the public, and probably themselves, with.

[vbloke]

Excellent resource - I note the UKS is there (and I get a mention too).

If anyone wants to research the papers I've been sent, I've added them to the Bad Science-o-paedia at http://badscience.net/wiki/index.php?title=Homeopathic_Papers