Detect the ADE 651 Detection Equipment

[techowiz]

Another scam device hits the market, The AL-6D sold by Diodebell, who say the following about this magic stick, play spot the difference with the other scam devices:>:-)

'AL-6D is using a unique DiodeBell material structure localization technology and method. This technology is based on the magnetic attraction created by particular material structures when energized by low power electromagnetic waves, emitted by the AL-6D antennas.'

There was a video on youtube, but the owners pulled it after I slammed it on my blog, seems they don't want the free advertising! I also pointed out that McCormick was involved in this 'new' device and they also pulled the video showing McCormick, now what have they got to hide?
Anyway for the full rundown on this 'new' device check out the link:

http://www.diodebell.com/products/explosives-detector-alarm.html

regards

[Admin]

Well done everyone involved, although it's a damn shame when it needs the concerted effort of several concerned citizens to do something that the Government can't be arsed with.

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1017-saving-lives-with-skepticism.html

[techowiz]

A true believer has come out to play on the UberGizmo site. To join in the fun go to the link:

http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2009/11/ade_651_handheld_detector.html

regards

[Ryoden]

Does anyone know how the court case went, i thought it was due in July?

[Pedant]

Another scam device hits the market, The AL-6D sold by Diodebell, who say the following about this magic stick, play spot the difference with the other scam devices:>:-)


Download their PDF sales brochure - all two pages of it, complete with cheesy graphics of the sort that a graphic arts student might have produced in the 1970s - and you'll see that they claim this little box of tricks can even detect ammonium, perchlorate, gelatin and TATP, all by a magnetic something-or-other unique to them. I wonder how magnetic TNT really is.



'AL-6D is using a unique DiodeBell material structure localization technology and method. This technology is based on the magnetic attraction created by particular material structures when energized by low power electromagnetic waves, emitted by the AL-6D antennas.'


Gee, the magnetic attraction of a kilogram of TNT must be really strong to give a reading a kilometre away, mustn't it?

:cheesy:



There was a video on youtube, but the owners pulled it after I slammed it on my blog, seems they don't want the free advertising! I also pointed out that McCormick was involved in this 'new' device and they also pulled the video showing McCormick, now what have they got to hide?


Apart from anything else, they're trying to hide Jim McCormick's face; this may perhaps be understandable in itself but it may also be a belated - and futile - attempt at damage limitation.

[Pedant]

Does anyone know how the court case went, i thought it was due in July?

The wheels of justice have rarely been known to work quickly, but one might wonder what or who tipped off Defective Inspector Knacker about the other sucker detectors.

Has Jim McCormick peached or turned Queen's Evidence? 8-)

[Pedant]

Seems I am further and further away fro UKS for personal reasons but delighted to hear action is still on the cards against McCormick of ATSC and his 'allegedly' useless ADE 651. Unlike the BBC I am not afraid to say openly that there is nothing allegedly useless about the ADE 651.. It is and always was useless unless you wanted to use the aerial to pick your nose.


I do not believe the aerial on the ADE 651 would be at all suitable for nose picking, as it lacks a scoop on the end that could scrape away the solidified mucus.

I believe that the ADE 651, the GT 200 and all other contraptions of this sort can work perfectly well as intended for a while - they can enrich the vendor, as was intended, until the scam is revealed. Unfortunately, they cannot detect explosives or anything else except a gullible sucker willing to pay for this tarted-up junk.

[Pedant]

Check this out everyone

The GT200 has been taken apart in front of the media.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46lNXyVmT_Q

Not officially,but it is the real device.Wait for the official test by the scientists.Can you believe that even it failed the test and has been dismantled ,The army still insists to use it.

I do hope they didn't use it after it had been dismantled and all the invisible, magical fairy dust inside it had sublimated.
:cheesy:

[techowiz]

Does anyone know how the court case went, i thought it was due in July?
The cops have extended his bail, yet again!
He has not even been charged yet so a court case is a long way away, sadly.
regards

[Pedant]

The cops have extended his bail, yet again!
He has not even been charged yet so a court case is a long way away, sadly.


As one would suppose the matter is quite simple - does the largely useless contraption actually detect anything other than gullible suckers - one might be starting to wonder if the case is being delayed by political considerations. It could certainly be most embarrassing to the UK government and to the Iraqi regime were the facts to emerge in open court.

>:-)

[ernst.filibert]

Maybe they can't prove that ADE doesn't work. I am sure the court asked for tangible proves and the accusation doesn't have them. It is possible that device to detect something otherwise someone was in prison by now. :undecided:

[Admin]

Maybe they can't prove that ADE doesn't work. I am sure the court asked for tangible proves and the accusation doesn't have them.

I think your logic is a bit faulty there. The idea is that something that is sold as a bomb detector should be proven to work before it's sold and used in theatre. Otherwise people could die - and this is what has happened.

Anyway, this device has been tested (IIRC) and it was found not to work.

It couldn't have worked anyway as it's nothing more than a dowsing rod.


It is possible that device to detect something otherwise someone was in prison by now. :undecided:

I'm not sure about the legal side of things; but even if the perpetrators of this scam do not end up in prison it won't be because the device works.

[Dubious Dick]

Dear Ernst,

Don't be a plonker!

Of course they can prove the damn things don't work. The problems are more to do with the legal issues of what to charge them with, and where.

Some of us are fervently hoping for deportation to Iraq where it is more likely that appropriate justice will be meted out.

We'd like to see them strapped with explosives, then, if the dodgy detectors don't work, which they cannot and will not, they suffer as the victims of countless bombings that they have claimed would be prevented have. Blown to bits.

[techowiz]

Maybe they can't prove that ADE doesn't work. I am sure the court asked for tangible proves and the accusation doesn't have them. It is possible that device to detect something otherwise someone was in prison by now. :undecided:
Hi Again Ernst and welcome to the planet earth, as you will know I already tackled you and your ridiculous support of the ADE on the Randi site.
The ADE, like all the other 'magic wands' is a scam, prove us wrong and take the MDC or go back to whichever planet you came from.::)

[tolman]

We'd like to see them strapped with explosives, then, if the dodgy detectors don't work, which they cannot and will not, they suffer as the victims of countless bombings that they have claimed would be prevented have. Blown to bits.
Dumping in the middle of a minefield (real and fake proximity-triggered mines stuck on short poles?) would be much more fun, and probably more TV-friendly.

If he was given a few day's supply of food and water, it could be better than Big Brother (not that that would be terribly difficult).

[ernst.filibert]

Hi Again Ernst and welcome to the planet earth, as you will know I already tackled you and your ridiculous support of the ADE on the Randi site.
The ADE, like all the other 'magic wands' is a scam, prove us wrong and take the MDC or go back to whichever planet you came from.::)

I don’t consider having other opinion means to defend someone or something. We can talk about principles and people trying to think with their own minds not swallow every shit throw by mass media and here I am not talking only about ADE. The mass media is poisoning people minds with all kind of craps and they don’t care about truth they only care about money.

[tolman]

Ernst,
This is a thread about dishonest scum who peddle bogus equipment that ends up with other people risking or losing their lives, not about the general evils of the media.
If you want to rant about other things, go start a different thread.

If someone is selling something for a fortune, claiming that other people should trust their lives to it, it's up to them to prove that it works if challenged.

If they won't do that, it's likely that it's because they know damn well that it doesn't work.

If someone keeps claiming a safety-critical piece of equipment works even when they know that almost anyone knowledgeable suggests it doesn't, and few (if any) people who aren't one way or another on the payroll claim it does, that's almost certainly because they're a knowing fraud, not merely self-deluded.
Even if they are self-deluded, that doesn't mean they have a right to keep any of the profits of their delusions.

As a parallel, it's possible that if someone walked into my house and helped themselves to my possessions that that's actually down to them falsely believing my stuff belongs to them, but it's far more likely that they're just a common thief.

[ernst.filibert]

Ernst,
This is a thread about dishonest scum who peddle bogus equipment that ends up with other people risking or losing their lives, not about the general evils of the media.
If you want to rant about other things, go start a different thread.

If someone is selling something for a fortune, claiming that other people should trust their lives to it, it's up to them to prove that it works if challenged.

If they won't do that, it's likely that it's because they know damn well that it doesn't work.

If someone keeps claiming a safety-critical piece of equipment works even when they know that almost anyone knowledgeable suggests it doesn't, and few (if any) people who aren't one way or another on the payroll claim it does, that's almost certainly because they're a knowing fraud, not merely self-deluded.
Even if they are self-deluded, that doesn't mean they have a right to keep any of the profits of their delusions.

As a parallel, it's possible that if someone walked into my house and helped themselves to my possessions that that's actually down to them falsely believing my stuff belongs to them, but it's far more likely that they're just a common thief.

I thought this is a tread about ADE where people can freely express their opinions about ADE device.
In their presentation they showed how ADE works after that some people didn’t believe his capabilities and made some accusations.
In justice when people are accused of something doesn’t make him guilty. Everybody is under presumption of innocence until the court declares them guilty.
Until now I didn’t heard something like this.

[tolman]

I thought this is a tread about ADE where people can freely express their opinions about ADE device.
So why are you trying to talk about the evils of the media, rather than how yopu think a device with no contents can actually detect anything?


In their presentation they showed how ADE works after that some people didn’t believe his capabilities and made some accusations.
So the guy selling it for huge prices says it works, and that's good enough for you, a disinterested member of the general public with no connection whatsoever to this or any other similar device?

The fact that few or no sales are made to people in non-corrupt countries doesn't strike you as possibly significant, even if, had the devices actually been any use, there would be a lot of people who could really use one?

If someone was claiming to be selling a perfectly bulletproof suit that weighed next to nothing, they'd been in business for years and yet didn't have European or US customers, I'd have a pretty good idea what the odds of the suit actually working were.

Moreover, if someone was claiming to be selling such a suit and was somehow put unfairly under criminal investigation, I'd expect that the very first thing they'd do would be to call a press conference, and stage a demonstration of how good it was. I'm sure that if they were risking their life to prove the product, (just as they expect countless other people to risk their lives using it) they'd be able to get lots of media attention.

[techowiz]

Moreover, if someone was claiming to be selling such a suit and was somehow put unfairly under criminal investigation, I'd expect that the very first thing they'd do would be to call a press conference, and stage a demonstration of how good it was. I'm sure that if they were risking their life to prove the product, (just as they expect countless other people to risk their lives using it) they'd be able to get lots of media attention.
Hang on a minute Tolman,
Did you not see that very convincing demonstration they staged in Iraq, where the EOD specialist using the ADE detected the hand grenade in plain view?
It certainly convinced me it worked, until that is, it missed over 2 tons of explosives that killed nearly 300 people::)
Ernst, you are of course entitled to your opinion, but you need to answer what I have just posted above to get any credibility.
As for seeing a 'demonstration' of it working, I have seen magicians sawing people in half on stage, then putting them back together that must have been real also according to your logic. Ask yourself also, why does McCormick not have enough confidence in his wonderful device to put it forward for credible double blind testing, but expects people to trust it with THEIR lives?
As for the alleged working principle, when I tackled you on Randi's site, I said then it takes more that finding a principle used in explosive detectection and saying, 'that is how our equipment works', you need independent double blind testing or take the RANDI mdc, next time you see McCormick ask him why he wont do either.
regards

[ernst.filibert]

Hi Again Ernst and welcome to the planet earth, as you will know I already tackled you and your ridiculous support of the ADE on the Randi site.
The ADE, like all the other 'magic wands' is a scam, prove us wrong and take the MDC or go back to whichever planet you came from.::)

Yeah we meet again. And as already told you Techowiz I don’t support anything. All that I do is trying to look from another direction to ADE and to try to give it a chance to save human lives.
The science is evolving and from my point of view it is possible to detect different substance with electromagnetic attraction.
Maybe for some this will look like a magic but remember Galileo Galilei was accused of heresy and there are hundreds of examples like this in human history.

[tolman]

All that I do is trying to look from another direction to ADE and to try to give it a chance to save human lives.
No.

If that was honestly your motivation, then unless you were incredibly stupid, you'd be clamouring for all the various supplier of claimed explosives detectors to be subjecting themselves to the most public and rigorous demonstrations possible, in the knowledge that a success under such conditions would guarantee maximum usage of functional devices, and the abandonment of any bogus ones.

If someone claims to be making any strange device (remote explosives detection, free energy, etc) which they're keen to sell, but which they're not clamouring to have rigorously and publicly tested, then the chances are that they're just a fraud.


Maybe for some this will look like a magic but remember Galileo Galilei was accused of heresy and there are hundreds of examples like this in human history.
It might look like magic once it was actually shown to work, though clearly if it was shown to work then there would soon be investigations into how it worked and science would advance to make it thoroughly non-magical
However, if someone claimed to have a magic device, then there's not obviously any more reason to believe them than to believe someone who claims to be able to do any other kind of 'magic' unless and until they give a demonstration.

As far as I'm aware, Galileo wasn't trying to sell anything on the basis of vague impressive-sounding statements he made, talking about science he clearly didn't understand.
That's what made him a scientist, rather than a shyster.

[Matt]

Yeah we meet again. And as already told you Techowiz I don’t support anything. All that I do is trying to look from another direction to ADE and to try to give it a chance to save human lives.
The science is evolving and from my point of view it is possible to detect different substance with electromagnetic attraction.
Maybe for some this will look like a magic but remember Galileo Galilei was accused of heresy and there are hundreds of examples like this in human history.

Yes and I'm not an IT manager I just earn my living implementing and supporting computer systems. D'oh!

You may say that you're not supporting these pseudo technologies but that's exactly what you're doing. Lying about it doesn't help your credibility.

[Dubious Dick]

Ernst,. What Matt, Tolman and Techowiz say, with bells on.

Let's simplify this. The only real question is why the various purveyors of these so called detectors have not subjected their devices to appropriate independent testing? That's it! Both McCormick of ADE 651 fame (ATSC), and Vollmar of SNIFFEX Europe renamed the HEDD 1 I think, (Unival), have publicly agreed to such testing at different times. Do we see this happening? No. Have they committed to specific tests in specific places at specific times? No.

Why not? That is the question you must address to them, and stop bothering us.

Oh yeah, of course, I forgot that when the devices have been examined by experts there is no indication whatsoever that they can or should work, whatever fancy sounding mechanisms they claim.

So, go away and ask these questions of them. If you get any useful answers come back and tell us. Otherwise you are urinating into the prevailing air movement (aka p*****g in the wind).

One more thing. If you read the history of this saga, McCormick was in partnership with Gary Bolton of GT200 fame. They worked together on selling a previous incarnation of the product, The Mole. McCormick and an American called Balais maybe thought they could fool the testers at Sandia Labs (perhaps in the way that they had fooled potential punters with set up demonstrations. Or perhaps at the time because McCormick and Balais had been conned by Bolton into believing?) What we know is that Mole singularly failed. Subsequently Bolton split from McCormick and Balais and went on to do the GT200, and McCormick, apparently on his own, to do the ADE 651. Now we know that McComick has made several claims as to the so called working principles behind the ADE 651, and that they are effectively contradictory. He has avoided proper testing, and his kit has no known parts that would even vaguely suggest it can work.

What do we conclude? That even if McCormick originally believed in the Mole, he most certainly knows full well that his ADE 651 was/is a con job. As I have patiently explained to him and Vollmar, successful independent testing would make them extremely wealthy men, way beyond the level of sales we have seen so far. What cheaper, easier way to market their stuff? Still they resist. Odd? Yep. So odd that it cannot make any sense except in the context that they know they are on a hiding to nothing!

On the other hand, perhaps, since you seem persuaded that these things can work, you will be prepared to be the minefield tester. Maybe you should volunteer to Jimmy or Gazza or David or Simon or anyone else involved in this bullshit? Whaddya reckon cowboy?

[techowiz]

Yeah we meet again. And as already told you Techowiz I don’t support anything. All that I do is trying to look from another direction to ADE and to try to give it a chance to save human lives.
The science is evolving and from my point of view it is possible to detect different substance with electromagnetic attraction.
Maybe for some this will look like a magic but remember Galileo Galilei was accused of heresy and there are hundreds of examples like this in human history.
Hi Ernst,
Well how much time are you going to give it to save just one life?
Because at the moment, in the last 12 months alone it has been directly responsible for the loss of over 300 innocent Iraqi lives. That is just lives lost in the SECURE green zone where the ADE is deployed in large numbers, the Iraqi people, like the bombers, are starting to realise that the ADE does not and cannot offer any protection against explosives whatsoever. Like I said the question you should ask the fraudster McCormick, how come the ADE apparently 'detects' a hand grenade in plain view of the operator but cannot detect over half a ton of explosives in a vehicle driven right past the ADE?
Ernst, please also confirm that you are not from the same Romanian firm as another poster on other forums who goes by the avatar of, Comon Tois, the same Romanian firm that supports and promotes the ADE and also the ridiculous AL-6D. :huh:

[tolman]

Is there actually a standard Godwin-style name for the "But they laughed at/persecuted/ignored Galileo/Newton/Einstein/Edison!!!" argument, so beloved of scam artists, their shills and gullible supporters, and also countless self-deluded wannabe inventors?

[Matt]

Is there actually a standard Godwin-style name for the "But they laughed at/persecuted/ignored Galileo/Newton/Einstein/Edison!!!" argument, so beloved of scam artists, their shills and gullible supporters, and also countless self-deluded wannabe inventors?

The Galileo gambit (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Galileo_fallacy)

as Carl Sagan put it.

They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.

[tolman]

Is there actually a recorded instance of it ever working in an argument(*), or is it really just a verbal analogue of a three-year-old stomping out of a room and just about managing to slam the door (possibly satisfying to the three-year-old, but laughable to anyone else)?

(* with a mentally competent adult audience)

[Matt]

Is there actually a recorded instance of it ever working in an argument(*), or is it really just a verbal analogue of a three-year-old stomping out of a room and just about managing to slam the door (possibly satisfying to the three-year-old, but laughable to anyone else)?

(* with a mentally competent adult audience)

Evangelicals seem to get a certain degree of comfort from their persecution complexes. Some are warned that their attempts at proselytism will be met with hostility and that this is the devil in action. When this happens is evidence of the devil.

[tolman]

But then surely someone being unfailingly polite would just be an instance of one of the silver-tongued devils they're also been warned about, especially if the person seemed to be convincing?

[shimself]

Is there actually a standard Godwin-style name for the "But they laughed at/persecuted/ignored Galileo/Newton/Einstein/Edison!!!" argument, so beloved of scam artists, their shills and gullible supporters, and also countless self-deluded wannabe inventors?

Godwin style name? wassat?

[tolman]

It was a condensed way of saying "A name for the phenomenon, somewhat akin to Godwin's Law"

[Dubious Dick]

Seems that Jim McCormick has managed to get a deal in Mexico. That'll add to his credibility eh! Another corruption free zone where the deal must have gone through on the basis of how marvellous the ade651 is? Or not!

Anyway, seems that the story is slipping away a bit while we are still waiting to hear what the rozzers will charge Jim and Gary Bolton with. Come on boys in blue. Get them locked up or deported to the countries where their so called detectors have killed people by not working.

I've added a piece on the Mexico deal to my blog at

http://ade651gt200scamfraud.blogspot.com/

http://explosivedetectorfrauds.blogspot.com

http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/

Be helpful if we can get a few more links to this or better still the Techowiz and Lumpy blogs. Seems that ATSC website has managed to get above us all on Google and it would help to boost the rankings so that Jim doesn't get all the share of voice.

[Admin]

Be helpful if we can get a few more links to this or better still the Techowiz and Lumpy blogs. Seems that ATSC website has managed to get above us all on Google and it would help to boost the rankings so that Jim doesn't get all the share of voice.

If only there were a skeptical website in the UK that had plenty of free resources for project organizers and a strong Google ranking already in place...

It would be daft not to use it really.

[magnox]

The problem, as I'm sure you are all aware, is two-fold. Shutting down McCormick, whilst a worthy goal, will achieve nothing as long as the buyers are willing to take their cut.

"Hi, Jim here.. if you buy 250 of my worthless detectors for £40k each, I'll make sure you get your finder's fee of £4k per unit."

All this talk of independant/double-blind testing is pretty pointless. We all know they don't work, McCormick and associates know they don't work but, more importantly, the buyers know they don't work. However, for a quick million, they can be persuaded to look the other way. If you live in something-astan and were offered this deal, it is obviously very tempting.

I would be delighted to see McCormick take a jail sentence for what he has done. I don't think it's likely, but it would be justice served.

However, when and if this company is shut down, another will spring up to take its place. Perhaps not based in the UK, but another shyster will come. In fact, the rhubarb I grow in my vegetable patch will point to any explosive you're thinking of in your head, and I will sell it to your government for £40k a stick, and I'd be delighted to give you some kickback. It works on a magnetic/resonant/polarity/latent charge/zero point energy* theory and is proven to work as long as you buy it and your bank accepts my cheques.

(* delete as appropriately disproven on respected web sites)

It's good work you're doing fellas, but its the governments that could stamp this out almost immediately.

Ah yes, silly me. The kickbacks.

[tolman]

Ultimately, I guess the real success would be having the some of the crooks in the countries who bought the bogus devices ending up falling out of favour and getting lined up against a wall somewhere, though I guess that does require that the corruption doesn't go all the way to the top, or at least, that it's deniable by people at the top.

However, if one or two crooks do get locked up here, maybe that would at least put other people off from starting up here.
Even if we can't stop fraudsters setting up shop elsewhere, it is at least worth doing our best to stop them doing it from here.

[techowiz]

Hi Tolman,

As for stopping the fraudsters setting up shop elsewhere, after his arrest in January McCormick started to use his friends in Romania in an attempt to get round the export ban imposed on his scam by the UK Government, I sent a briefing paper to all the papers in Romania I could find hoping that with the worldwide interest in the story at the time one would pick it up, and they did no doubt causing quite considerable embarrassment to all concerned even showing a helpful photograph, check out the link:

http://www.adevarul.ro/actualitate/eveniment/Scandalul_detectoarelor_de_bombe-amorsat_in_Romania_0_195580904.html

Google translate do a reasonable job and give you a good idea of what is being said.

http://translate.google.com/#ro|en|

Enjoy, now what happened to Ernst?
regards

[ernst.filibert]

This is a very old article and I don’t think is relevant. On ADE 651 manufacturer’s website (http://www.atscltd.com/) I saw that a lot of governmental agencies had made ADE tests, you can find them in “Media relations”.
Maybe it works … who knows … maybe the one who have touched one can tell us more.

[Croydon Bob]

Maybe it works … who knows …

It doesn't work. Lots of people know. The evidence is clear.

You are are a persistant little liar aren't you? Popping back up with your "I don’t support anything" bullshit.

[techowiz]

This is a very old article and I don’t think is relevant.

Well you wouldn't would you?
Especially, as it names your company in cahoots with the fraudster McCormick.

On ADE 651 manufacturer’s website (http://www.atscltd.com/) I saw that a lot of governmental agencies had made ADE tests, you can find them in “Media relations”.

Name 1 credible government agency that has conducted a test on the ridiculous ADE that says 'it works'? I notice that ATSC cannot name them either!
There is also a 'testimonial' on that website that states, "I am one of many customers, of whom most I have spoken to who have been amazed and astounded at the accuracy and effectiveness of the ADE 651 when its being used by well trained staff. ...
That quote is completely made up, total fiction, a figment of McCormick's imagination just like his government 'tests'. So what weight can be added to the suggestion that a lot of governmental agencies have conducted tests if he has to invent testimonials? Why can he not find just 1 real person to say something positive about the ADE?

Maybe it works … who knows … maybe the one who have touched one can tell us more.

Well if it did work McCormick would not have dodged the Million Dollar Challenge from Randi, he also dodged meeting Professor Bruce Hood when he found out that I had advised the good Professor on the questions and criteria for any testing, see the article at the link:

http://brucemhood.wordpress.com/2010/01/22/woo-bomb-detector-exposed/

The problem you people have Ernst is that you cannot find 1, yes just 1 credible source to say it works, this is an alleged bomb detector we are talking about that has already been directly responsible for the loss of over 300 innocent Iraqi lives in the past 12 months alone. So when you glibbly state that, 'maybe it works', then why did it fail to detect over half a ton of explosive driven right past it, if maybe it works?
What respectable company would not want the most stringent of tests by CREDIBLE agencies in support of their claims? McCormick knows full well that any simple double blind testing would expose his fraud that is why he goes nowhere near them, if you don't believe me, next time he is in your company office ask him why he wont subject the ADE to a double blind test. Companies that sell scams don't like the spotlight, that is why your paymaster ran off after exposure by the BBC in January.


Instead of repeating lies from the ATSC website you need something called EVIDENCE, it is for your company and McCormick to prove the things you allege the scam is capable off, I have said to you before, it takes a lot more to convince people who are not being bribed than 'because we say it can'.
If it worked the UK and the US military would be using it, they aren't ask yourself why.
It is sold to countries where corruption is rife and common practice ask yourself why.
When you have the answers to these and the other question please post back.

[tolman]

When I see McCormick or other people passing a proper 'live' test (ie surviving with all body parts attached and functional) which has been set by people I'd trust, I might change my opinion, but it seems even less likely that he'd try doing that than that he'd pass if he did.

[lyndonius]

This is a very old article and I don’t think is relevant. On ADE 651 manufacturer’s website (http://www.atscltd.com/) I saw that a lot of governmental agencies had made ADE tests, you can find them in “Media relations”.
Maybe it works … who knows … maybe the one who have touched one can tell us more.

This is getting tiresome – Is there any change the admin can check the IP address of these posts. Remember 'Flanders'

[ernst.filibert]

If it worked the UK and the US military would be using it, they aren't ask yourself why.
UK and US aren’t using it because they are taking their sponsorship from other companies.

It is sold to countries where corruption is rife and common practice ask yourself why.
Maybe they are in corrupted countries but I am sure even corrupted people can’t risk citizen’s lives. They can do money in all other domains without risking lives and having mass media scandals.

[Croydon Bob]

but I am sure even corrupted people can’t risk citizen’s lives.

Is there anything that you're not 100% wrong about?

[tolman]

UK and US aren’t using it because they are taking their sponsorship from other companies.
So even though a box containing nothing at all in the way of active components can work miracles, the US and UK forces are ignoring it?

Not only that, but the US Department of Justice brands the various devices 'bogus', and company bosses are pursued in the UK for fraud?

Seems to me that the guy should clear his good name once and for all.

And obviously, by far the best way to do that is with a properly-administered live test, where he repeatedly puts his life on the line, the same way that he expects his ultimate end users to.

If he actually had the balls to do that, I'm sure he could get media coverage.
but of course, we all know that he won't, unless he's actually deluded himself into thinking his bogus box of nothing actually works (or wants to pretend that he's deluded himself into thinking it works).

[techowiz]

UK and US aren’t using it because they are taking their sponsorship from other companies.

Name these other companies, No, didn't think you could. OK, then name the government agencies that have tested the ADE and said it works as per your paymasters website.

Maybe they are in corrupted countries but I am sure even corrupted people can’t risk citizen’s lives.

Well over 300 innocent Iraqis have died as a direct result of this scam and that is only in the last 12 months. So that makes a complete nonsense of your statement.

They can do money in all other domains without risking lives and having mass media scandals.

So as someone who works for the Romanian company that markets and sells this scam, where is your evidence that it works?


Any respectable businessman that had his product called a fraud, a fake a complete scam by a multi millionaire would sue, McCormick has not, why?

Any respectable businessman that had his product declared a fake by his own government and banned from exporting it, would most certainly sue and make millions, McCormick has not why?

Any respectable businessman that had his product declared a fake by the BBC would sue, McCormick has not why?

I'll give you a clue to the answer, because he would have to prove to people he cannot bribe that it works, now let's have your answer/s::).

Also, you appear to be getting your various avatars mixed up on the Randi Youtube site, the one where he talks about the arrest of McCormick for fraud,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruTmqfGJhTI

do you think for the purpose of clarity you can stick to just one avatar and stop pretending there are multiple supporters of the scam device ade651?

[Dubious Dick]

UK and US aren’t using it because they are taking their sponsorship from other companies.

Maybe they are in corrupted countries but I am sure even corrupted people can’t risk citizen’s lives. They can do money in all other domains without risking lives and having mass media scandals.

Perhaps your name should be filibuster not filibert? Maybe you don't know what that means. Look it up.

Well, we're not falling for it. Why not, as a supporter of these devices, simply agree that a proper test under proper protocols would clear this up once and for all. Tell your buddies who are involved in this, that this is the only way you have a cat in hells chance of defending what is utterly indefensible.

Techo, Bob and Tolman have really said all that needs saying, but cannot resist chipping in.

Please take this on board, and don't come back unless you have news that proper testing will be undertaken (we have had promises from Jim that he will do this before. Funny, no action so far despite all the allegations. Wouldn't you want to clear your name in such an easy and simple way? David Vollmar at Unival in Germany who simply pinched the discredited Sniffex from the U.S, and has tried to resurrect it, even changing the name to HEDD 1, has also promised proper testing for well over a year now. Funny. No news on that either!)

Don't you see a pattern emerging?

Gary Bolton at Global Technical, who do the equally crap GT200, has apparently disappeared following the furore. He has never responded at all to demands for proper testing.

I think you know already that Gary and Jim used to work together on the MOLE. When Jim and their U.S. agent/partner, Robert Balais, messed up by allowing proper tests on the MOLE (see Sandia Labs) and it failed as it was bound to, they split up. Off went Gary to develop and sell the GT200 (exactly the same basic design as the MOLE and all the other swinging antenna devices) to corrupt countries (see Thailand), and Jim to the ADE 651 (spot the difference), and his dodgy dealings with Iraq etc.

You have absolutely nothing useful to add to this issue unless you manage to do what no one else has so far, and deliver independent, credible testing of any or all of these scam devices. I will bet you a million quid that if that happens we will be completely vindicated in our knowledge that these things cannot and do not work. We don't actually need that proof because we know that there is no satisfactory mechanism to explain why they should work, and every credible test ever done has proved they don't, but sadly it seems some people out there do still need to be convinced, despite the weight of evidence available, and we would sure love to see corrupt buyers prevented from putting peoples lives at risk in future.

(By the way, I think it is hilarious ;D that you think corrupt officials give a damn about anyones lives except their own. If they did they would not be corrupt! Honestly, are you really that gullible. No. I don't think so, but if you are watch out. There's a conman born every day to fleece the gullible who sadly are also born every day.)

So, do you get the message? Go away and only come back if you have something useful to add. Geddit. Gotit. Good!

[ernst.filibert]

It is not possible to have a normal dialog with you people. Anyone who has a different opinion is discredited or personally attacked without valid counterarguments, only quasi arguments invented to justify your jihad against the person and the product.
You said that a respectable business man should sue you for your injury but who are you? Just a bunch of cowards hidden behind your nicknames.
I am out of here and leave you to bathe in your own misery.

[Croydon Bob]

I am out of here

My psychic powers tell me that you'll be back and lying again.

Goodbye, for now.

[tolman]

It is not possible to have a normal dialog with you people. Anyone who has a different opinion is discredited or personally attacked without valid counterarguments, only quasi arguments invented to justify your jihad against the person and the product.

Translation:

"I, Ernst Filbert, don't think that anyone selling magical products (which are supposed to operate by means not consistent with any known science, and which have no obvious working parts) which are claimed to protect other people's lives should be required to show those products actually work, except maybe in tests run in uncontrolled conditions, or by people on the seller's payroll."

"Furthermore, even if the official US and UK military/goverment view is that the devices don't work, and the seller is currently facing criminal charges for fraud, I won't see anything suspicious in that, and will try to pass it off as sour grapes."

"Indeed, merely suggesting that a proper demonstration would actually help to clear the name of the guy selling his magical protective boxes (if he actually is being honest) is clear evidence of the bad faith of skeptics, who I think should simply believe whatever someone with a vested interest tells them."

"I'm sure people should trust me, since I speak with the authority of an internet persona which doesn't seem to do anything apart from try and pretend that magic devices probably work."

"However, having realised that I'm doing nothing but look like a dick, I'm going to flounce off, possibly to return later under the same or a different name and try again to pretend that magic works if someone says it does."

[Dubious Dick]

It is not possible to have a normal dialog with you people. Anyone who has a different opinion is discredited or personally attacked without valid counterarguments, only quasi arguments invented to justify your jihad against the person and the product.
You said that a respectable business man should sue you for your injury but who are you? Just a bunch of cowards hidden behind your nicknames.
I am out of here and leave you to bathe in your own misery.

Ernst, is it only me who suspects you could be more than one person? Have I detected a difference in your command of written English across different posts?

Oh well. Doesn't really matter. How's this for an insult?

You are a complete f'ing t**t unless you return and tell us what independently run, correctly controlled tests have shown any of the scam devices to work?

OR, Tell us why you think none of the people behind these scam devices will agree to proper independent testing?

OR, Tell us why you do not think they need to have such tests carried out?

Of course, you could also try to explain why Jim McCormick claimed that double blind testing would not work on these devices? That one has made me laugh (funny peculiar, not ha ha) ever since he spouted it.

So you see, you are only insulted here when you are unable to participate in a sensible, rational discussion, as opposed to your tactic of simply saying they do work and everyone involved are really well meaning, jolly nice, genuine types.

If you really have gone away (and that just tells us what we know already i.e. you have nothing to contribute) then I for one am happy you won't be polluting our forum with your nonsense any more. BUT, secretly I bet you are watching. EVIDENCE OR SILENCE!

[ernst.filibert]

I couldn’t find any comment regarding ADE on the text from their site http://www.ade651.co.uk/ade-651-about.html (http://www.ade651.co.uk/ade-651-about.html) ... Do you have any argument regarding the used technology?

[tolman]

Do you have any argument regarding the used technology?
The claimed technology [this week] is 'long range electromagnetic attraction', but no details are gone into, possibly because that claim is bollocks.

The used technology appears to be 'Sweet Fanny Adams', since people who have looked inside them don't report them as having anything inside conceivably useful.

Though I did hear a rumour there was going to be a new model, using some cutting edge electromagnetic technology called a 'Snay coil'

[Croydon Bob]

I couldn’t find any comment regarding ADE on the text from their site http://www.ade651.co.uk/ade-651-about.html (http://www.ade651.co.uk/ade-651-about.html) ... Do you have any argument regarding the used technology?

So you lied (again) when you said you were out of here.

Still trying to promote the discredited fraud ADE 651?

What technology?

[Dubious Dick]

Ernst, You plonker!!! All you have to do is do your research like we and others have done.

Fact is if you check out the various blogs on the topic you will find that Jim has claimed various different working principles behind the ADE651. Even at one time having contradictory principles on his Lebanese agents website and his own ramblings.

I will not detail here the various guises under which McCormick of ATSC has tryed to masquerade the ADE651,. Look up the history yourself.

Oh yesh. Answer the fing questions about testing before you raise any more non-poits or issues.

Ernst, let me assure you, the cmpaign against your friend/s continues. There is some interesting new information emerging on some of the protagonists. Funny that both Jim McCormick (Romania) and Gary Bolton of Global Technical (the GT200 scam( both went to ground once the Police started taking real interest.

Anyway, Ernie baby, as my learned friends have pointed out, you continue to demonstrate extreme stupidity, and contribute absolutely nothing useful!

[techowiz]

I couldn’t find any comment regarding ADE on the text from their site http://www.ade651.co.uk/ade-651-about.html (http://www.ade651.co.uk/ade-651-about.html) ... Do you have any argument regarding the used technology?
The used technology is zero, zilch, thin air technology. Can you clarify which technology is being claimed this week?
Is it still EMA or is it back to NQR, it changes so often we cannot keep up?
Also can you tell us what changes were made to the ADE to incorporate the different technologies that were claimed?::)

[Matt]

I couldn’t find any comment regarding ADE on the text from their site http://www.ade651.co.uk/ade-651-about.html (http://www.ade651.co.uk/ade-651-about.html) ... Do you have any argument regarding the used technology?

Yes, it doesn't work under double blind testing.

That alone should be enough.

But...


Q: How does the ADE work?
A: The ADE works on the principal we call Electro-Magnetic Attraction, EMA. The principle for long range detection is based on substance excitation that needs to be detected, with an electromagnetic field that propagates on a long distance and is not disturbed by the " electromagnetic noise" from the environment generated by such things like RF transmitters and other electronic equipments that use electric current or electromagnetic waves.
This effect appears to be unknown science. If it were real then a patent would be in order.


Explosive and drug substances contain in their structure the Nitrogen atom.Many explosives do indeed contain nitrogen. But then again so does the air we breathe. THC, the active ingredient in Canabis contains no nitrogen. The presence of THC is the only difference between marijuana and hemp.


The positive charge of the Nitrogen Core is not uniformly distributed on the surface of the core ( nucleus ) and this determines that every chemical component that has the Nitrogen in composition to be in an instable equilibrium. At card-excitation,This is technobabble.


with a low-level intensity wave modulated with a frequency equalHow does the card emit a wave with no power source? It must be very low level indeed.
How does the card emit a wave with no active components?


to the resonance frequency of the compound that has the Nitrogen atom, the substance changes its energetic level to a superior / inferior energetic level with a frequency equal to the resonance frequency of the compound that has the Nitrogen atom.Why would this technobabble "freqency" be different for a nitrogen atom in for example C4 compared to the tonnes of nitrogen atoms in the air, in proteins


As a result an electromagnetic field is generated with the propagation direction of the excitation field. This creates an electromagnetic field that is working on the devices antenna. More technobabble.


Lab measurements on each type of substance, provides the "electromagnetic signature " for each type of substance with a specific resonating frequency and signal pattern. Which again don't seem to have been patented. How is the pattern data stored in a card with no components?


All substances have an Electro-Magnetic Signature that carries an electromagnetic charge that, when stimulated by an electromagnetic impulse creates an 'attraction' between the substance being detected and the unit itself.Technobable


The simple way to explain this technology is to take an inflated balloon and rub it on your hair. A static electric 'charge' is created, making the balloon 'attract' it to say, a wall or other flat surface. Provided there is enough 'charge', the balloon will remain 'attracted' to the wall for an indefinite amount of time. However, once the 'charge' has dissipated, the balloon will then 'unattached' itself and fall to the ground.I understand tribo electricity and electrostatic attraction. However this seems to have no bearing on the technobabble being raised apart from raising the issue of distance. A balloon (which has much more inertia than an antenna) will show no discernible attraction to the wall if separated by more than a millimetre or so. This is common to electrostatic and electrodynamic attractions.


What the ADE does is create an 'attraction' between itself and the substance it wants to detect. With, (the substance recognition cards), the movement of an operator, an attracting field is created in the card reader that, in turn, causes the Direction Indicator of the ADE, (the antenna) to "lock onto" a signal, indicating the direction in which the substance can be located. why is operator movement mentioned? The ideomotor effect requires a human holding the dowsing rods but none of the electrodynamic technobabble has explained why the device can't be mounted.


When the electromagnetic signal of the substance that the ADE is searching for is located within its detection range, the ADE's receiving direction indicator, (the antenna), will move towards the direction of the existing substance. Where does the power come from for the movement? Such movement requires energy.


Essentially, the ADE functions like a hyper sensitive receiver. ATSC has incorporated EMA technology into its proprietary Substance Recognition Cards No it hasn't, they've been taken apart and there's nothing in them


to specifically target either a specific substance, or group, or family of substances. For example, particularly in the case of Explosives, the Substance Recognition Card for "Plastic" can detect the family of Plastic Explosives including C4, C3, Semtex, etc. Not in a double blind test it can't. As has been proven time and again.


The ADE is able to penetrate all known substances which may be used to "camouflage " the target substance because it will "lock" onto the programmed target substance only and will "bypass" any substance(s) that may be in between the target substance and the programmed ADE card. Electromagnetic signals do no pass into or out of faraday cages. This claim is inconsistent with the claim to utilise an electromagnetic effect.


Nother example could be home-made explosives such as Ammonium Nitrate whereby the ADE could not distringuish the difference between this (as an explosive) and the same as used in farm fertiliser. Or, as far as the explanation given thus far, any other nitrogen containing compound, like the major constituent of air.


In essence, the ADE functions like a hyper sensitive receiver. As the ADE receives an attraction signal from the target substance, its Indicator moves across the Operators' body to form a 90 degree angle toward the direction of the substance.Except in double blind tests.


Q: Is there anything that will stop or block the ADE from detecting substances?
A: To date, we have not found anything that will totally block or stop the substance signal being detected. As with any equipment, there are limitations as to its use and during training, the ADE provides some guidelines for its use. Provided these guidelines, (together with your operators training), are followed, you will have an effective tool enabling you to effectively & efficiently 'narrow' down the area of search allowing other search methods to be deployed in the successful detection of the searched substance. Used correctly, the ADE can detect substance(s) through walls, (even lead-lined and metal ones), water, (fresh and salted), fresh & frozen foods, (fish, fruit, tea, coffee, ice), vacuum flasks, containers, petrol & diesel fuel and even buried in earth (underground)Which since all low power electromagnetic signals are blocked by faraday cages (like a fuel tank of vacuum flask) means the technological claims being made are inconsistent with this claim.




Q: Does the ADE emit any harmful rays or hazardous emissions?
A: No. There are no harmful rays or emissions from the ADE. The electromagnetic waves which work with ADE are very low intensity and low frequency. This, therefore, would be no different than operating say, a 2-way radio.Low frequency means long wavelength. Nitrogen nuclei are small. Do you see the problem here? Also low frequency means low data capacity. How can a signature that is data rich enough to distinguish between all the different nitrogen compounds be carried on a low frequency wave?


Q: What is the maximum distance that the ADE can detect?
A: The name ADE was devised by taking the full name of the product, (Advanced Detection Equipment), with its initial 'test' distance, which was 650 meters. Hence, ADE650! However the best operational distance for detection in a optimum time is between 10-100m.An elecrodynamic attraction strong enough to overcome the inertia of an antenna over a distance of 650m would be unfeasibly high powered.


Q: How can the ADE operate without any external power source?
A: Electrostatic electricity is very much misunderstood. The ADE does require power in order to operate. It requires a very high level of electric current but without amperage.Amerage and current are exactly the same thing.


This is why it cannot currently be mounted in a stationary position to operate. The production of power is generated by the movement of the Operator and, as the Operator walks the perimeter of the defined search area, he (or she) generates electrostatic electricity. Not usually. Does the operator have to moonwalk in rubber shoes? Will it only work where there's nylon carpets? Why choose such an unreliable power source? Does the device switch off if the operator isn't active enough, or if humidity is high? Wouldn't a battery be a better idea?


As one moves, you generate power which, at times, can be in excess of 2,000-3,000 or more Volts.Power is measured in watts. The Voltage of the human skin with respect to earth is rarely that high. To draw power from it you must earth it or otherwise connect to a something of a different potential.


This in turn, powers the ADE.This can't happen since the ADE is not earthed.


The ADE becomes active and starts to receive signals from the electromagnetic c signature code of the targeted substance.Even if the ADE were earthed there's so little power generated through tribo electricity that even if the device were to convert all the available power to some sort of signal that would excite a nitrogen nucleous it would be a very weak signal. That signal power would be reduced with the cube of the distance between the device and the target substance. Even if the target substance converted all of the signal energy it received back into a return signal there wouldn't be enough power to move the antenna.

Lets say we're trying to detect a hand grenade distance. Lets be generous and say 10m.

Connect a bicycle to a electrical generator and a seasoned athlete can produce 300W for a short time. Obviously the amount of power generated by the inadvertent build up of static electricity is many orders of magnitude less but I'm being exceptionally generous.

Lets say that all this power was converted to some electromagnetic signal. Nothing is that efficient but again I'm being generous. How much power would fall on the grenade?

Well the 300W would be spread our over the surface of a sphere 10m wide that's 1250 m2

The cross section of a grenade is around 0.005 square metres. So the grenade gets impacted with 1.2 milliwatts of power assuming no attenuation of the signal (which is generous to the max considering it's passing through 80% nitrogen, the very stuff it's supposed to interact with.

Lets be exceptionally generous again and say that this power is not radiated back out to the antenna with only some small fraction hitting the cross section but that all of it goes straight back to the antenna.

What we then have is a 1.2 milliwatt motor trying to move a 50cm long metal antenna. How quickly will the antenna move? It's not.

And remember that's being extremely generous. At 100m ten times the distance we're trying to move the antenna with a microwatt. Pick a real estimate for the amount of power produced by build up of static rather then the batshit insane overestimate of the maximum power a human can produce in ideal circumstance and we're in nanowatt territory.

Forget detecting explosives and drugs, if this works as stated it breaks the laws of thermodynamics and you've discovered free energy. You're putting in a milliwatt of power and getting a a long metal arm to swing. Stick it between some drugs and a live shell the switch the cards back and for. Fix that antenna to to a generator and you'll get out more than a milliwatt. With that sort of discovery you could put an end to war, with free energy everyone has all they need and there's no need to go to war over oil any more.

But that brings us back to the beginning. It doesn't work. And that's the main problem with the technology. It fails in the same way that the ideomotor effect fails. Which makes the people selling an promoting it responsible for all the death's associated with it's use.

[techowiz]

Matt, excellent destruction of the nonsense posted on the ADE website.
One bit I picked up on was the following.

Q: What is the possibility of obtaining "false Positives" with the ADE?
A: False Positives are problems in all known detection equipment in service today. A "manageable" amount of these False Positives are generally incorporated into the continuing operation of detection equipment and can range from <1% to as high as 20% or more.

So 20% or more that covers them for the usual 100% failure as it is within their specification!;D

[Starwatcher]

Some people just do not learn. This appears to be another one in your back yard.

http://www.sae-ltd.com/xk9_explosive_detector.htm

X-K9 with a swinging antenna, sound familiar?

[chaggle]

Some people just do not learn. This appears to be another one in your back yard.

http://www.sae-ltd.com/xk9_explosive_detector.htm

X-K9 with a swinging antenna, sound familiar?


Scientific Make-up of the Detection Cartridges

The cartridges intelligence is made up from samples of less than 1 Molecule of material in each, during manufacture these are bombarded with safe forms of radio waves via a highly advanced technological atomic processing method, after which the molecular samples are then imprinted in to the centre of the metal body of the cartridge. The scientific technology of the design of the detection cartridges is highly complex and intricate in make-up.
I wouldn't worry too much. Nobody's going to believe that bollox... are they?:-[

[tolman]

But, but.... not only does it detect 'gunpoder', it also detects 'Picnic Acid'

Yum yum.

Given the writing, is it possible that it's just a piss-take?

[bindeweede]

The cartridges intelligence is made up from samples of less than 1 Molecule of material in each,


Does that actually mean "nothing"? No claims of the item having been tested. No testimonials.


Composition 98% Non farrous materials used


A joke, surely??

[Dubious Dick]

Thanks for the tip off Starwatcher.

So good that so many are on this case. Believe more action to follow soon. Watch this space!

Have written as follows to the XK-9 people (Good Star trek sounding name! Wasn't it a Fiat Sports Coupe as well?)

As follows:

Dear Sirs,

Your website and XK-9 product have come to our attention.

Pease note that your product bears a stiking resemblance to the ADE 651, GT200, SNIFFEX, HEDD1, Quadro-Tracker, Mole Alpha 6 PSD 2, etc

If yo are not aware of the controversy surrounding these products I recommend that you do some searches.

It may be that you have been fooled into thinking the XK-9 works by dodgy demonstrations.

It would be good if you can supply any info on why/how XK-9 works? Also, whether you have any independent test results (inc. protocols)?

If not, are you willing to undertake independent proper testing.

I would appreciate a quick response. If not we will report you the Police, forward your details to our national media contacts, your local media, and across our blog network.

I am sure that if you are a respectable company, you will wish to reassure us, and not have to go on the run like Jim McCormick, and Gary Bolton.

Best wishes,
The Fake Detector Campaign Group


Will report back any response. If anyone else wants to help report them to the authorities, be good. Did search on ADE 651 and first few search results pages are dominated by the anti blogs and news articles. Can't see the XK-9 getting very far if we add it to the rogues gallery.

Keep up the good work all you campaigners. Special respect for the ongoing great work of Techowiz. Also bows to Matt for his extraordinary demolition job. Very useful!! What would we do without him. Bleedin' genius!

[techowiz]

Oh no another bloody fake stick on a swivel.::)
Well spotted starwatcher and thanks for the info.
regards

[Dubious Dick]

Response from the XK-9 guys and my response to that. Let' see how this develops....
Apologies for my typing. Something weird on my email account and only just noticed.


Dear Sir
Thank you for your email.
A few months ago we were made aware of some “issues” regarding this item and as a result we immediately removed it from our website, unfortunately it appears there are still some links to the historical webpage retained in some search engines that may take a little longer to self eradicate. However I would be grateful if you could fill us in on the full controversy regarding the item and anyone associated with it. We have no desire to be involved with any product or supplier is less than 100% genuine.
I have never heard of your group but would appreciate a link to your group and perhaps some more information about you and your background.

Dear Simon,

I am glad you appear to be taking the issue seriously. You can of course get those pages deleted easily enough

As for the controersy. Well, you only need to type in ADE 651, SNIFFEX, MOLE, GT200, HEDD1 or Jim McCormick, Gary Bolton or ATSC or Global Technical, to get plenty of hits that will tell you all you need to know. Sufice to say,no rational explantion has been given for why this type of swivelling aerial shold detect anything at all. And as I said, no such deivce has ever passed a proper test, and the sellers tend to avoid proper testing.

If you want a good ume of the techncal issue se a rentpost by MattatUKSkeptics.com under the ADE Thread.

Ayway, please letme knowwhere ou sourced thi produt plase?
As for us, we are an independent campagn group sing the internet to spred the wrd about scams and fruds.You ill frgive me ifI retain anonymity as e are dealin wth some dodgy chaacers in thi mtter.

I a course delighed that ou ave stopped selling the XK-9. an I put out statement o that effect. Also that yo will cooperat in futher invetistigations?

any thanks foryour propt esponse.

[techowiz]

Apologies for my typing. Something weird on my email account and only just noticed.
Hi DD, was it red or white wine that caused your typing problem;D
regards

[ernst.filibert]

Matt, excellent destruction of the nonsense posted on the ADE website.
One bit I picked up on was the following.

Q: What is the possibility of obtaining "false Positives" with the ADE?
A: False Positives are problems in all known detection equipment in service today. A "manageable" amount of these False Positives are generally incorporated into the continuing operation of detection equipment and can range from <1% to as high as 20% or more.

So 20% or more that covers them for the usual 100% failure as it is within their specification!;D

Again a big lie. Fake content that exist only in your deranged minds.

[Dubious Dick]

Oh Ernie, you are a persistent little prat aren't you?

I quote from a Washington Post article posted by Adman on JREF

"I'm finding it harder and harder to see any humor in this," Lt. Col. Dennis Yates, who was among the device's critics when he last served in Baghdad in 2008. "This piece of junk did, in fact, significantly contribute to an unknown - and pathetically large - loss of innocent lives. The guy who bought it should rot in one of the stinking jails that dot Baghdad."

I am sure he would say the same about the a******S who sold it. In fact, I think I'll drop hiom a line and ask him for a quote to that effect. Suspect he might really like to see electrodes attached to delicate parts, but hey, rotting in jail will do.....

Get that. "...and pathetically large loss of innocent lives."

That's why we have hounded you and your fellow bottom feeders, and I mean that in the literal sense.

Here's the link to that article.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/02/AR2010110203290.html?sid=ST2010110204207

Another nail in your collective damned coffins, you purveyors of lies and death!

[Matt]

Again a big lie. Fake content that exist only in your deranged minds.

You what?

http://www.ade651.co.uk/ade-651-faq.html#q17




Q: What is the possibility of obtaining "false Positives" with the ADE?
A: False Positives are problems in all known detection equipment in service today. A "manageable" amount of these False Positives are generally incorporated into the continuing operation of detection equipment and can range from <1% to as high as 20% or more. The key to understanding "False Positives" is to understand what causes detection equipment to "detect" a programmed substance that is not the actual found. It is a known fact that, certain chocolates and perfumes will cause IMS equipment to "detect" such items as explosives.

[Croydon Bob]

Again a big lie. Fake content that exist only in your deranged minds.

;D Irony.

The ADE 651 and similar phoney devices have fake content that exists only in deranged minds. It's no surprise that people like you are prepared to lie like this when you're prepared to kill people to make money.

[shimself]

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/65117/title/Building_a_better_bomb_sniffer

Building a better bomb sniffer
Handheld device detects an explosive that is easy to make but hard to detect . . .
. . . . . . . . . The team is now taking steps to convert their prototype into a commercially available device that could be waved over suitcases or placed inside walk-through sniffers in airports.

Maybe Jim'll be selling it. Or maybe (please god) he'll be in an Iraqi gaol.

[Starwatcher]

Dubious Dick, very nice follow-up on the XK-9, it appears the exposure on dowsing sticks is having an effect. So far I have not been able to find out who is behind this version and it appears that SAE Systems is just a seller and not the "inventors". I would not be surprized if this one surfaced again marketed by another seller/marketer.

[Dubious Dick]

Hi Starwatcher et al,

First, apologies for length of post but it is partly an open message to the scammers.

Shows how great the interweb is. So easy to follow up, and the network of campaigners has grown impressively. Keep it up folks. As Starwatcher says, we have made some good progress but still want to see more concrete action against these deathmongering scuzzballs. ( I vote for concrete boots and the proximity of a deep body of water).

So far seems that SAE have taken the XK-9 off their website. Their claim that the pages that come up on searches are legacy.

MATT, is there any way they can delete all references to their company and XK-9? I will ask them to put out a Press Release distancing themselves from the product/concept. That should test their honesty.

Like Starwatcher says, I suspect that the XK-9 came from somewhere else and was/is not a proprietary product of SAE. As per my email I have asked them to open up and tell us where it came from originally. Have not got reply yet but will let you know as and when. Seems this may be a case of them being duped but the jury is out.

Special hellos to:

Jim McCormick of ATSC. Can we have the latest version of the ADE 651 working principles please Jimbo? It seems to have been a long time since you last changed your mind! How's tricks in Romania? Are your mates at Miratelecom worried. Think they will be when Vodafone come breathing down their neck! Oh yeah, and how are your Lebanese pals? Your name should be McTakingthemick!

Mr Gary Bolton. Where are you? The game of hide and seek finished a while back! Come out, come out wherever you are. Global Technical? More like Global Miracle, what with the miraculous GT200. Tell you what mate. Better take a holiday quick! After all you may well be taking one at Her Majestys Pleasure (and mine!) in the not too distant future. Bet you didn't detect that possibility when you were swanning around selling bovine scayology, and putting innocent people and serving police and military personnel at risk.

David Vollmar at Unival in Germany. HEDD1? You'd have to be a heddcase to buy one (geddit!) You sure have some cheek! Persisting with your lies after all this time and proof that swinging antenna cannot and do not work. Lookout matey! Some more nasty surprises round the corner for you as well!

We have not heard a lot more about Alpha 6, PSD2, or a number of other variants on the same old same old, but if anyone sees or hears anything about them or others, please do let us know and we'll deliver some appropriate justice.

Oh, and by the way, it seems money challenges don't work since none of you want to take the Million Dollar Challenge and sell squillions of your gadgets if you win as a result of the ensuing publicity. So, here's my next offer. If any of you can show your rubbish detectors do actually work (proper testing conditional!), I will run naked the full length of Oxford Street! Now there's a tempting thought!! Go on, it'll be a laugh. Shame those people that have died or been seriously injured under the false assumption that they were protected by your fake detectors wouldn't be laughing with us. Hope your dreams are full of blood and bodies. They damn well ought to be!

Think I've said it before. We don't like you Jim, Gary, David etc. And we will not let your lies lie!! best to give up now boys! It won't be long and at least some redemption may be available if you own up and come clean. Hey Jim, there may even be a movie in it and the proceeds could go to your victims!!! Along with your own ill gotten gains of course!

[Matt]

MATT, is there any way they can delete all references to their company and XK-9? I will ask them to put out a Press Release distancing themselves from the product/concept. That should test their honesty.

They can delete the pages:
http://www.sae-ltd.com/xk9_explosive_detector.htm
and
http://www.sae-ltd.com/files/xk-9_explosive_detector.pdf

and the images
http://www.sae-ltd.com/images/xk9_2.jpg
and
http://www.sae-ltd.com/images/xk9_1.jpg

This is a simple matter of logging onto their webserver hosted at fasthosts.co.uk and deleting the files in question. This is a relatively simple task that either they or their web partners sitewizard.co.uk can carry out in under two minutes.

Letting Google know that the pages no longer exist is another matter. Eradicating all trace of a page once it's been in the public domain is a rather fruitless and unrewarding task. I couldn't blame them if they didn't find it worth the candle.

With the source pages gone, in time google will stop displaying them as results. With the pages still there it's likely that google will still index them via this thread or other inbound links even if they have removed all internal links from the rest of their site. As such Google would still send XK-9 traffic to sae-ltd.com

[tolman]

Regarding Google, might it not be better to leave the pages in existence for a while, but empty of any content?

Then, at some point Google's cache will be updated with the new (empty) pages, and then they can be deleted.

[techowiz]

Again a big lie. Fake content that exist only in your deranged minds.
Ernst, for once you are actually right, is was a big lie, but the lie was one that was on the website of your paymaster. So by accusing me of lying you have actually lost the one point for being right.
Perhaps you can help us out here Ernst, I see that you boss Mr Ilie is distancing himself from McCormick and his scam the ade, I note with interest McCormick is no longer 'on the team', and your website no longer features the amazing device, what happened did you see sense or was it shame, please let us know?
Also his friends in Lebanon, good old Prosec, seem to also be moving away from McCormick they no longer feature the ade either, sounds like rats deserting a sinking ship to me.

[Dubious Dick]

Sub Section: SNIFFEX (now known as HEDD 1 from Unival in Germany).

Having a bit of time on my hands have been doing some more research on our friend David Vollmar at Unival in Germany who is trying to keep the old SNIFFEX scam going under the delightful new name HEDD1 (Does this stand for 'Hasn't Even Detected DooDoo Once?)

Anyway, oh what a marvellous web we weave.

Came across this puff piece:

www.sovereign-publications.com/unival-group-wds.htm

Now, Sovereign is part of a company called Ten Alps here in the U.K. so I thought I would call them and check out how such a blatant load of old tosh crept into what appears to be a respectable publishing house. Spoke to a Patrick Thompson who claimed he was a Director of the division responsible for World Defence Systems.

Patrick told me that they had a close relationship with Unival, and that they had been assured by Vollmar that the HEDD1 was legit. Doesn't anyone ask for proper test info first!

Anyway, I have suggested to Patrick that they look to get out of their relationship with Unival asap. If not I will be contacting the Board of Ten Alps, and shining the spotlight onto Sovereign/World Defence Systems. I am sure that other commercial supporters of Ten Alps/Sovereign/World Defence Systems will not want to be associated with such a dodgy product/company as Unival.

I did suggest to Patrick that he ask David Vollmar where the test results are? David has previously made all the same sort of noises on this as Big Jim McCormick at ATSC and the suspiciously similar to HEDD 1, ADE 651.

So Patrick, I will be calling back in a day or two as agreed, to see what action you have taken.

[Dubious Dick]

The latest from our German friend, David Vollmar at Unival, who is merrily still peddling the old Sniffex under the marvellous HEDD1 moniker.

I asked him where the tests that he promised us were. This is his reply.

If anyone wants to join in jumping on Dave, please feel free. Email him. Email the German authorities. Email the German media.

Bit surprising that Davey has kept going so long. Given the publicity, they must be aware of this by now. I am going to ask military contacts to get this up the line via NATO, and politically via the EU. GOOD LUCK MR Vollmar. You're gonna need it!!

Here's his waffle reply:

Thank you for your interest in our products.

Our devices have been technically accepted from a large number of governmental agencies, who are using it on daily basis in designated scenarios and we are in continuous testing in EU and several other countries with good success.

Testing results and references are available to our clients but will not be published.

Your kind support is much appreciated.

Sincerely yours,

David Vollmar
Managing Director

!NEW CORPORATE BROCHURE 2010!
http://www.unival-group.com/unival_pdf_downloads/unival_broschure2010.pdf

MULTI LEVEL SECURITY – GERMAN SECURITY TECHNOLOGIES

unival® group GmbH
Am Hofgarten 4
53113 Bonn
Germany


GSM: +49 151 12110637

Fon.: +49 228 688 36 58
Fax: +49 228 688 36 59

david.vollmar@unival-group.com


HRB: 14264
District Court Bonn

VAT ID: DE232565058
Managing Director: David Vollmar
unival® group of companies


Web: www.unival-group.com

[Dubious Dick]

ANOTHER LEGAL THREAT! YESSSSSS! Back of the net!

Sorry, getting carried away. I just love it when the eedjits get riled up, and start spraying out legal manure.

Anyway, here it is. Mr. David Vollmar from Unival in Germany, who markets the HEDD1 (Hasn't Even Detected DooDoo Once) renamed from the old and dearly missed Sniffex Plus, which in turn evolved from the Sniffex of U.S. fame.

Anyhow, as above, wanted to make sure David was not missing the party so dropped him a line or two. Here is his latest reply. Ooooh, lawyers, bring 'em on!

Read it and weep:

Dear Peter,

You are not only wasting your time (even though it seems you have too much of it) but you are also wasting my time!

Gloves are off, you say? Now you talk! So stop hiding behind your email and stop making anonymous calls! If you can proof that you have a legitimate request, we are happy to respond and will provide data from independent experts, who have tested the device.

All legitimate clients have free access to full information. None of our devices is being sold without professional assessment and testing from side of our governmental clients, who really don’t need your personal protection in order to evaluate equipment.

So either come out of your hole, make your claim public and show proof or stop wasting the time of working people. If you continue to blackmail our company and our products without any proof, we will instruct our lawyers to take care of you!

I have copied James Le Grand from Sovereign into this correspondence.

Best regards,

David Vollmar

P.S. Sovereign is a publsihing outfit that appears to have some promotional deal with Vollmar and Unival. As above, am chasing them to end their links as they are U.K. based.

Happy hunting!! Oh, and David, YAH BOO SUCKS, you lying, cheating, conning scuzzer! Do I make myself clear?

[tolman]

So rather than publicly demonstrating a supposed wonder product that could save countless lives, this guy chooses to keep his amazing proofs of efficacy private, even when he knows perfectly well he's operating in a field where many other similar and competing devices are known to be entirely bogus, and where most people, presumably including most technologically advanced and non-corrupt governments and military organisations, (otherwise he'd be claiming them as clients) presumably don't think he's actually selling a product that works?

Why on earth would anyone do that, if such proofs existed?

A businessman with a wonder product who'd actually prefer to sell fewer life-saving products than he could do, make less money than he could do, and who'd prefer to be generally thought of as a likely fraud and scumbag than a great saviour of mankind?

That really doesn't seem very likely to me.

Is there actually much potential illicit use for explosive-detection equipment, and hence any meaningful risk of the Sniffex 'falling into the wrong hands'?

I'm trying to think of realistic scenarios, but I'm coming up blank at the moment.

[Dubious Dick]

Exactamondo Tolman. This is the point we have been pushing from day one to Jim 'Five Bellies' McCormick, the scum seller of the ADE 651, and to Gary 'the Geezer' Bolton at Global Technical with the GT200, and to just about any bleeder that's involved in this scam.

Wouldn't waste your time trying to come up with a good reason why they would hide their light under a bushel. No reason possible not to openly publish test results. Imagine:

"Emeritus Professor of Physics at Imperial College London (is there one?) Declares the XYZ Works"

Phone would not stop ringing, factory on overdrive, millions pouring in. licence to print money, sweaters as goalposts.....sorry, lost the plot for a mo.

Anyway boys, that's the nirvana that awaits you if you just truly believe!!

So, come on folks, let's have a last big push at these twerps. Any letters to M.P.s asking where the action is, or to the Kent or Avon and Somerset Police will do.

Anything you can do on your blogs? e.g. links to this thread much appreciated. Cheers!

[tolman]

"Emeritus Professor of Physics at Imperial College London (is there one?)
There are several.

Though I doubt any would expect explosives to be detectable by devices running on magic, bullshit, and threats of legal action.

[Dubious Dick]

There are several.

Though I doubt any would expect explosives to be detectable by devices running on magic, bullshit, and threats of legal action.

Well ain't that the truth Mr T!

These jolly fellows can't let their kit anywhere near even a vaguely respctable physicist. Every time they do, deliberately if stupidly i.e. Jim McCormick and Robert Balais, when they foolishly took the MOLE to the SANDIA Lab in the U.S. (thus causing the splut with Gary Bolton, and the cell like division of the MOLE into the ADE 651 and the GT200 variants.

Maybe Jim 'Five Bellies' McCormick (grown fat on the back of piles of dead bodies), did believe at that time. May be him and Balais were coned by Bolton? I doubt it. Maybe they thought they could rig/manipulate the test. Whatever, Jim has known for a long time. And I have no doubt that David Vollmar at Unival, and all the rest of the turds know full well.

I repeat my challenge, to go with the Million Dollar Challenge, and all the other challenges that we have issued.

SUE ME MOFOS! If you want to find me you can. If right is on your side so be it. BUT, and it's a big BUT! It ain't so I am safe as safe can be.

In fact, it's Dodgy Davey Vollmar, Gary 'Geezer' Bolton, Jim 'Smugnomore' McCormick et al who should sweat their bollocks off. Imagine if the father of a little girl who is blown up by a bomb that got by a fake detector decided that they didn't really appreciate the fact that their daughter was not protected by some garbage product that some scumball businessman had bribed his government to buy and thought to take revenge. I cannnot imagine what they might do? Actually I can, and although I do not advocate it to anyone else for one moment, I would if it was my child! And I would support anyone who chose to independently do the same.

I won't spell out my darkest thoughts here, but be sure Dodgy Dave et al. It wouldn't be pleasant. Sweet Dreams!!

Rant over!

[Dubious Dick]

Have been doing some more digging into Unival in Germany recently. They market the HEDD1 (formerly Sniffex Plus), and I have been in correspondence with their M.D. David Vollmar regarding independent testing. Well, of course we know that the Hasn’t Detected Even Doo Doo Once is a load of old tosh, but we have to give them a chance.

As you know, if you’ve been following this thread/story, Vollmar and Unival have failed to back their commitments to independent testing. He even seemed to be seriously considering the Million Dollar Challenge, but no news yet!

Anyway, my research has thrown up a number of U.K. publishers who are carrying promo material for Unival and the HEDD1. A couple of them have agreed to ask Vollmar for test evidence and committed to removing all promo material if he cannot provide adequate evidence.

One of my contacts has said that Vollmar has assured them in the past that the HEDD1 is legit. Well he would, wouldn’t he! Seems they may have been suckered by fact that Unival appears to have some legit products (bit like Global technical and the GT200).

We’ll have to see if they follow up but I am hopeful that they are taking the issue seriously. I will report back. Regrettably Mr Andrew Field at Copybook who runs a website called Armed Forces International does not. He says he is not interested in what he calls my “idle babble”. Well, I don’t think informing people about fake explosive detectors is idle babble, but hell, maybe I am wrong.

If you agree with me please do let Mr. Fields know. Here are his contact details. Of course, you may not agree with me and perhaps you would therefore like to call him instead and tell him what a great job he is doing!

afields@copybook.com

Andy Fields
Managing Director & CEO
Copybook Group of Companies
100 Chapel Street, Tiverton, Devon, EX16 6BU, UK

t: +44 (0) 1884 244 670
f: +44 (0) 1884 244 671

Thanks to anyone who can take a few minutes to help shut down the oxygen of publicity to Unival and the HEDD1. Come on folks. Join in and lobby Mr Fields.

[Dubious Dick]

Hope not boring you! Maybe you've given up reading this thread. If so then I won't be so it is your fault if you are!

Anyway, more on Vollmar and Unival and the HEDD1 (Hasn't Even Detected DooDoo Once) formerly known as the Sniffex.

David is happily continuing to promote his scam and I am chasing him around trying to disrupt these efforts while we wait for the apparently snail like German authorities to act against this fraud and the head fraudster. Yep, David, that's another libel to add to your collection Ho Ho Ho.

Now then. I have been concentrating on the following publishers who pop up carrying puff/apology pieces for HEDD1 when googled.

Here they are, with current status:

Sovereign Publishing (part of Ten Alps based in the U.K. and founded by Bob Geldof!)
They have committed to asking David Vollmar for independent test results. I have warned them to beware. remember Gary Bolton at Global Technical used to claim that the GT200 had MOD approval and was connected to REME? Well, it didn't and it appears he may have been paying REME personnel at one time to participate in the scam by allowing demos on MOD property (This issue yet to be pinned down)

Anyway, I am hopeful that Sovereign will play ball and take down all Unival and HEDD1 stuff. I'll let you know but you are welcome to back me up with an email to:

Chris Tompkins
Publisher
T: +44 (0) 207 074 7764
E: chris.t@atalink.co.uk

I must say their reaction has been far more positive than the others, and I trust them to do what they say. If not we'll drop Bob Geldof a line.

Now, Copybook, subject of my last post. They do Airport International, as well as other websites. As I said before, Andy Fields M.D. at Copybook says my warnings are "idle babble". I've asked him to ask the right questions. He doesn't seem to care so we'll look at contacting some of his major clients and asking them if they want to be promoting alongside such an obvious fraud as HEDD1. I wonder what they'll say?

Now onto Daniel Garrun at Airport Technology.com Published by NRI a trading division of SPG Media (SPG reminds me of those lovely boys, The Special Patrol Group, now renamed the TSG I think - bit like the Sniffex beig renamed the HEDD1 due to bad publicity!!)

Well, daniel appears to be a bit naughty too, so his clients will hear from us soon if he doesn't come to his senses. here's his latest email to me and my reply:

Hi Peter we are media and do not necessarily support what we publish. It’s very hard to take you seriously with threats like this. If you want our help I suggest you change your tone.Now what is the problem with this device? Who are you, where are you coming from and why should you be taken seriously? I see no business details and a gmail account.
Regards Daniel Garrun

Daniel,

I am sorry if you do not appreciate the threats. I would prefer not to carry them out but we need to take a tough line. These devices have already been responsible for many deaths. Just do your research!

Don't trust me. Look at all the other reliable sources who say these do not work.

Or just ask David why he will not get indpenedent tests. i ask again quite reaosnably what possible reason he does not do so? It is quite illogical don't you think!

It really does not matter who I am or where I come from. The truth is what counts and any respectable publisher would care for the truth. Any respectable publisher would at least ask the right questions and test the answers. That is what proper publishers do. Of course, if you are simply immoral and happy to take money from fraudsters then you will take no action and that is when we will carry out our threats to disrupt your business. I repeat, we will only do so if you take no action.

Is it too much to ask? Not really when the lives of innocent people as well as military personnel are at risk. I suspect we can have some fun taking the piss out of you and David on German military forums. We'' only do that to David if you do act.

Come on Daniel. Wake up. This is real!

Daniel is available at: DanielGarrun@nridigital.comNRI
Europe Atlantic Offices
John Carpenter House
John Carpenter Street
London EC4Y 0AN
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 207 936 6750

Asia Pacific Office
Suite 1608
Exchange Tower Business Centre
530 Little Collins Street
Melbourne
3000
Victoria
Australia
Tel: +61 3 99 097 757
Fax: +61 3 99 097 759

NRI are based here



and lastly, for now we have Defence Professionals in Germany, and their man Nicolas von Kospoth. details of them as follows:
http://www.defpro.com/contact/

I have mailed them and await their reply.

Now obviously all these sites make money out of advertising Unival and the HEDD1, and it is understandable that they do not like to lose revenue. But surely, if they want any credibility at all then they will divorce themselves from Vollmar, HEDD1 and Unival? Wouldn't you? These scam scum really are the pits so if you want to email Daniel, Andy or Chris or Nicolas to emphasise that I am not alone in wanting to see this awful fraud shut down then it may help. ta and keep on skepping!

[Croydon Bob]

Hope not boring you! Maybe you've given up reading this thread. If so then I won't be so it is your fault if you are!

We're still following you Dick. Top work, well done.

Time to contact Watchdog and other media again I think. These companies' clients won't be too happy with that kind of publicity for pushing something that has already been identified publically as a death-causing fraud.

[Dubious Dick]

Ta CB.

UPDATE

Daniel Garrun at NRI now seems to be taking this seriously. I won't bore you with all the emails but he says they are now conducting thorough investigations so hopefully will not be long before all Unival HEDD1 material is off the airport-technology.com site they run at NRI and any others they may have!

I have also written to 5 major UK newspapers asking why no further action/charges against Jim McCormick of ADE 651 infamy and Gary Bolton of GT200 notoriety? Are the authorities embarassed that they took no action when they knew about the scams for a long time. It was only after the NYT and Newsnight exposes that anything happened and its now all stalled. We told the MOD and The Defence Select Committee about all this back in late 2008/early 2009. he NYT and Newsnight stuff didn't happen until end-2009/early 2010!

I have also written to 6 major German publishers asking why no action we have heard of against David Vollmar and Unival regarding the HEDD1 (formerly Sniffex). We wrote to the German Embassy in London and the Bundestag Defence Committee a long time ago but heard nothing.

What's the hold ups? These are effectively murderous scummy fraudsters and deserve not a moment of freedom longer, preferably in a nice sweaty Iraqi jail, or worse.

You'll be pleased to know that Gary has been spotted driving a Porsche. Like Jim McCormick, seems he likes to enjoy the spoils of his ill-gotten gains. Well Gary, we're after every darn blood tinged penny mate! Same for you Jim, me old mucker (and mucker is the right word, but in your case the only brass around is your neck when you claim the ADE 651 works, you f****r!1 Brass/muck geddit Jim. Thought I'd better spell out my little joke since you don't understand much! And you, an ex-Merseyside booby (sorry, Bobby).

Come on Jim. Don't hide. Romania can be a nasty place and there are guns there. If you hang around long enough one might get you! Nothing to do with me I hasten to add! But I won't be weeping for you if it does happen.

[Dubious Dick]

Go here for a picture of David Vollmar looking smooth and perchance a tad smug. Well, Davey boy, we'll wipe that smugness away. The net is now being squeezed tighter and tighter and

http://www.menainfra.com/article/Multi-level-blast-security/

Oh yes, and you get the bonus of my comment to the article. 've also writtent o GDS the publishers here in the UK to get them to take the HEDD1 Unival rubbish down.

Gotta say it again: Swivelling aerials on fancy grips do not detect anything except corrupt and gullible buyers. ADE 651 - Useless. GT200 - Useless. HEDD1 - Useless. Sniffex - Useless. Quadro Tracker - Useless. MOLE - Useless. ALPHA 6 - Useless. PSD11 - Useless.

The whole lot and more useless, dangerous, nasty scams!