Rant about BT

[tkingdoll]

They freaking suck ass and I hate them.

That is all.

>:-)

[farmersboy]

You're not the first, or indeed the last, to express those opinions I fancy... :undecided:

[Mulder]

What did they do?

[Croydon Bob]

They freaking suck ass

And do you have any evidence to support this theory?


>:D

[Tomolac]

what do you want? pictures? :tongue:

[Trinoc]

This should be subject to a double-blind trial. They are blind useless and we are blind angry!

[tkingdoll]

They do nothing! And when they don't, they do it badly!

Boring long story:

I have recently moved, to a rather smashing Thames-side apartment. Except it's out of cable area so I am stuck with a BT phone line. I can get Virgin to supply broadband and calls, but it has to be down the BT line. Not ideal.

BT gave me three (incorrect) activation dates for the line, resulting in them having to agree to refund my mobile broadband and call costs, then eventually sent an engineer without telling me (luckily I was in). He did some stuff then said he'd call when the line was active. He never called.

The next day the line was active, but then they sent a bill for a calling plan which I hadn't signed up to, claiming it was a 12 month, un-cancelable contract. When challenged, they claimed that that was the basic service whether I use it or not, and there is no 'line rental only' option. So I pay the same as someone who has 'free' weekend and evening calls even though I will never use it because Virgin supply my call plan.

So, the phoneline has worked for less than a week, during which time I have been waiting for Virgin to send my router. It arrived today, and I went to set it up only to find the phone line is dead. Four calls to BT later (and after them making me unscrew the main socket to test it 'from the inside', I kid you not), they finally bothered testing the line remotely and discovered there is a fault "probably outside".

It'll be 48 hours before an engineer can come out. I have been assured he will text with updates, but given the first one didn't, I don't believe it.

6 weeks and no freaking phone or broadband.

Also, mobile broadband is slower than dial-up and unreliable.

MOAN.

[lazerustheduck]

Going with another company but using a BT line can be a quagmire of complexity (not that it's complex to do, a few key presses and correct procedure it should go through simply), at every turn you have two things working against you BT itself has an interest in keeping you obviously and any customer service rep you get Will be trying to keep their stats up by sneakily adding on things you didn't ask for.
Don't believe them when they say anything can't be taken off first talk to their supervisor and if still no joy threaten to cancel.
I speak from experience of being a CSR for an outsourcing company (Glasgow, for when india just isn't cheap enough) for a rather large company I will not name, I was put up before several disiplinary gubbins for doing things that came down to the same thing in the end trying to actually help customers.

[Tim the Mage]

Since I'm posting this from a bt line and a bt account - have you tried getting a satellite dish?

[lazerustheduck]

Since I'm posting this from a bt line and a bt account - have you tried getting a satellite dish?What from those nice people at a place I won't mention. That's kind of like hitting yourself in the face with a rock because you've got an itch on your nose.

[Mongrel]

What from those nice people at a place I won't mention. That's kind of like hitting yourself in the face with a rock because you've got an itch on your nose.


Gosh! I wonder where you used to work ;D

[Croydon Bob]

Going with another company but using a BT line can be a quagmire of complexity

It worked OK for me.

My BT horror story in brief:

Me - "I'd like Broadband please"

BT Office X - "you can't have it until you cancel your Low User Rebate"

Me - "fine, I'll do that."

BT Office X - "you need BT Office Y"

Me - "I'd like to cancel my Low User Rebate and have Broadband please"

BT Office Y - "you need BT Office Z"

Me - "I'd like to cancel my Low User Rebate please"

BT Office Z - "you can't cancel a Low User Rebate you lose it automatically"

Me - "But I want Broadband"

BT Office Z - "you need BT Office X"

And around and backwards and forwards for several days, including being kept on hold for hours, etc. eventually:

Me - "I'd like to cancel my Low User Rebate and have Broadband please"

AOL - "no problem, we'll sort that out for you."

And they did.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

I had the transferring calls nightmare when I still had BT Yahoo Internet broadband instead of BT openworld broadband or something stupid I can't even remember. Not a single person could ever get into my case, and I got passed onto one of the infinite number of other offices.

I suspect they look at the call and if it looks a bit challenging, they just hop it to another part of the country. Probably some stupid call centre rules where they get penalised for spending too long on a call so it's better to send it somewhere else.

[lazerustheduck]

I had the transferring calls nightmare when I still had BT Yahoo Internet broadband instead of BT openworld broadband or something stupid I can't even remember. Not a single person could ever get into my case, and I got passed onto one of the infinite number of other offices.

I suspect they look at the call and if it looks a bit challenging, they just hop it to another part of the country. Probably some stupid call centre rules where they get penalised for spending too long on a call so it's better to send it somewhere else.That assesment is pretty much spot on.

[seren]

This is going to annoy everyone immensely, but I found this great number for calling BT that gets you through to a UK call centre where they really answer your questions.

But I lost it.

Want to be even more annoyed? When I called the India callcentre about the inconvienently late date the engineer would be arriving, I was told that unfortunately they cannot "prepone" appointments. Pre-frickin-pone.

Took me several phone calls to get caller display working when it should have been part of the package, and 2 attempts to get Choose to Refuse, for which I pay £3-something a month. I've now discovered it only blocks up to 10 numbers, and I have more than ten arsehole loan shark companies calling me.

On the balance of probability, given the available evidence, I agree with teek's initial assertion that BT do, in fact, suck ass.

[tkingdoll]

I can't not use BT, they are the only phoneline provider in the area. I am totally stuck with them and they know it :(

It gets better: they said it would be 48 hours before an engineer would call. That was yesterday afternoon. Guess who turned up at 9am today?

So, after fiddling about outside, he informs me that the first engineer had 'done it wrong' and it was now fixed.

Seemingly all is well with BT, but I just tried to install Virgin broadband and it won't find the connection at all. I called the Virgin tech support line and it's closed "because of a technical issue".

My mind is boggling. I give up.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

This is going to annoy everyone immensely, but I found this great number for calling BT that gets you through to a UK call centre where they really answer your questions.

But I lost it.


Probably the 'final stop' where everyone eventually ends up.


Want to be even more annoyed? When I called the India callcentre about the inconvienently late date the engineer would be arriving, I was told that unfortunately they cannot "prepone" appointments. Pre-frickin-pone.

Took me several phone calls to get caller display working when it should have been part of the package, and 2 attempts to get Choose to Refuse, for which I pay £3-something a month. I've now discovered it only blocks up to 10 numbers, and I have more than ten arsehole loan shark companies calling me.

On the balance of probability, given the available evidence, I agree with teek's initial assertion that BT do, in fact, suck ass.

TPS should stop the calls, I get none and haven't for years. Only the odd Indian call about tea time, but nothing more than that.

[seren]

I already signed up to TPS. I made the mistake of applying for finance through moneysupermarket. They passed my number on to any two-bit "financer", seriously dodgy companies. They make silent calls, so you call them back. It's to get round TPS- you called them. I went through 10 numbers of these f*ckers in about a fortnight.

Take a look at www.whocallsme.com - loads of folk on there who signed up with TPS and still no relief. >:-)
I never answered the calls, I looked up the numbers on that site and then blocked them.

The one call I did pick up was some dingbat who did 141 before dialling and then did the silent call thing! I can't call you back, you hid your number dumbass!

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

I already signed up to TPS. I made the mistake of applying for finance through moneysupermarket. They passed my number on to any two-bit "financer", seriously dodgy companies. They make silent calls, so you call them back. It's to get round TPS- you called them. I went through 10 numbers of these f*ckers in about a fortnight.

Take a look at www.whocallsme.com (http://www.whocallsme.com) - loads of folk on there who signed up with TPS and still no relief. >:-)
I never answered the calls, I looked up the numbers on that site and then blocked them.

The one call I did pick up was some dingbat who did 141 before dialling and then did the silent call thing! I can't call you back, you hid your number dumbass!

Jesus, that's bad. On a slightly different topic, I've had a couple of mobile calls recently which only ring twice. When you google the number you find it's a callback scam. They only make a few quid from each caller, but multiply that by thousands of callers and the numbers are huge.

TPS should filter down to companies in a reasonably short time. Obviously they aren't allowed to call you, even silently, but these dodgy companies know the benefits outweigh any risks to them.

I do work with TPS and MPS data, but within a responsible company. It's a fairly serious breach if we get any customer complaints about unwanted contact.

[lazerustheduck]

The silent number is not for a call back it's part of the computer system for call centre cold call switchboards. If you have 100 people working on switchboards and the computer makes 100 calls a good percentage of the operators will be doing nothing as no one answers. So the computer dials 300 people and if 100 pick up that's fine but more often than not 150 pick up and the 50 get dead air as there isn't actually anyone to take the call even though they called you.

[filippo lippi]

It's been called a "predictive dialler" where I've worked. It's a computer based system that knows who is working on outbound calls in the call-centre, how long each call should take and how long each call is taking. As a salesman approaches what the predicitive dialler's set time for a call it starts dialling another number ready to connect to the salesman when the previous call finishes, so there's a minimum of that expensive "not selling to a customer" time. Obviously, some calls take longer than the predictive dialler's settings, so the call centre operative isn't ready to take the call and the dialler just hangs up when the person at home hangs up. I believe the term in the business is "phantom calls" and companies can be fined if the ratio of them to proper calls goes too high.

[seren]

But I never heard anyone speaking, like I would if they were on another line. I heard breathing, and office sounds in the background.

The dialler didn't "hang up" when I hung up. It was on the line for a while afterwards.

Breathing.

And also, on that last call, how did the automatic dialler withhold the number? It didn't say "we do not have the caller's number", it said "the caller withheld their number".

[Mulder]

And also, on that last call, how did the automatic dialler withhold the number? It didn't say "we do not have the caller's number", it said "the caller withheld their number".

That's easy. You just dial in the digits 141 before the number you want. You can get programme many phones to do it automatically, if you want.

[lazerustheduck]

But I never heard anyone speaking, like I would if they were on another line. I heard breathing, and office sounds in the background.

The dialler didn't "hang up" when I hung up. It was on the line for a while afterwards.

Breathing.

And also, on that last call, how did the automatic dialler withhold the number? It didn't say "we do not have the caller's number", it said "the caller withheld their number". Lots of these companies have numbers that come in as withheld as they don't want their lines tied up with incoming calls. The breathing ones are simple to explain people not getting watched at their job, you've just had someone at the other end of the line eating a pot noodle because they can't afford the time to have a break so they make their own by not actually answering the calls they are meant to be taking.

[Trinoc]

The version I heard is that the silent calls are computer generated without any immediate human involvement. A number is dialled at random, and if you say nothing it just hangs up and marks your number down as a failure. If you say anything, like "Hello", it triggers a recorded message which may or may not result in you getting transferred to a human if you stay on for long enough.

The trick is, if you get a call for which the caller display says "Withheld", "International" or "Invalid", or is a number you don't recognise, say nothing. If it's a real human who wants to speak to you, they will say something before giving up. If not, then with any luck your number has gone to the back of the queue as an unpromising lead.

Regarding finding direct numbers to bypass call centres etc ...

http://www.saynoto0870.com/

The last time I looked, BT had a free package imposed on them by the regulator to enable caller display and register you with the TPS (unlike caller display alone which costs a few quid a quarter). It doesn't matter if you are already registered for TPS - you will just get a letter or email telling you so.

[filippo lippi]

But I never heard anyone speaking, like I would if they were on another line. I heard breathing, and office sounds in the background.

The dialler didn't "hang up" when I hung up. It was on the line for a while afterwards.

Breathing.

And also, on that last call, how did the automatic dialler withhold the number? It didn't say "we do not have the caller's number", it said "the caller withheld their number".

Ah, I see. Your customer service rep/breather may not have been aware that he'd been connected. They way they usually operate call centres I can't see him lasting very long.

I always assumed that you couldn't 1471 these sorts of callers because they originate from companies with complex switchboards and the system doesn't know where the call originates from. The idea that they deliberately withhold the caller ident has merit, especially if they want to drive the incoming calls through more lucrative numbers.

I have actually worked in call centres, but when you work in the credit card industry (as I used to) they do generate a large amount of gravity and the business starts to revolve around them. Generating revenue and minimising expenditure are, of course, paramount.

One particularly mean spirited trick was a sticker this one company stuck on their cards. It said "call this number to activate your card," but there was no activation necessary. Your call went through to a sales team who, after asking the obligatory security questions, would try and sell you insurance products. The same insurance products that a lot of the credit card companies were fined for miss-selling. Hahahaha

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

Barclaycard regret silent calling only slightly.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/consumer_affairs/article4830968.ece

I suspect the bad press hurts more than the fine.

[farmersboy]

One particularly mean spirited trick was a sticker this one company stuck on their cards. It said "call this number to activate your card," but there was no activation necessary. Your call went through to a sales team who, after asking the obligatory security questions, would try and sell you insurance products. The same insurance products that a lot of the credit card companies were fined for miss-selling. Hahahaha

Would that be MBNA perchance? I lost count of the number of times I politely said 'no thankyou' to her...

[filippo lippi]

Barclaycard regret silent calling only slightly.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/consumer_affairs/article4830968.ece

I suspect the bad press hurts more than the fine.



The fact that they can't operate as efficiently will be worse than both, it will cost them a lot of money.

Referring back to the insurance miss-selling. What happened was (apologies if much or even all of this is known already) -

You are a credit card issuer and I apply for one of your credit cards. The income details and my credit history is scored (by Experian and/or Equifax usually) and this gives me a credit rating which you use to decide whether to give me a credit card or not. If I have a low credit rating you stand a good chance of losing any money you lend me and, possibly, be found guilty of miss-selling to me, so you don't do that as you've probably fallen afoul of both in the past. As credit cards aren't that profitable because most people don't pay any interest, you now sell me some payment protection insurance (which will kick in if I can't afford to pay the balance in spite of the fact that the scoring process has shown that I am very likely to afford my repayments) and price protection insurance (which "protects" me against my purchases going into a sale and will pay me most of the difference between the price I paid and the sale price*).

What the banks didn't do was do another credit check on those insurance products; effectively they said "our systems have told us that it is safe to lend you x, so now we're going to lend you x + y + z." They were fined millions of pounds between them, but the hardest part was that they were no longer able to hand out the insurance products like the first free hit of crack cocaine. Profitability plummetted.


*PPI is rubbish, though I did know how to get it for free on store card purchases.

[filippo lippi]

Would that be MBNA perchance? I lost count of the number of times I politely said 'no thankyou' to her...

No, not MBNA. If that activation was for a credit card, then it was probably legit. The hardsell was a bonus.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

No, not MBNA. If that activation was for a credit card, then it was probably legit. The hardsell was a bonus.

I've had to activate MBNA credit cards before, and never had a problem with selling.

I've heard the stories about misselling and the sales techniques though from someone I knew worked in RBS. They'll all at it.

They can't help themselves, if a competitor becomes more profitable because they start a shady practice, they all have to follow. Probably why they've all ended up in the same mess(es).

Used to be assurance companies who were the bad boys, the banks have done something real special to take over that particular mantle.

[filippo lippi]

The individuals that come up with the selling strategies move between banks, so it's not surprising it spread.

[seren]

Lots of these companies have numbers that come in as withheld as they don't want their lines tied up with incoming calls. The breathing ones are simple to explain people not getting watched at their job, you've just had someone at the other end of the line eating a pot noodle because they can't afford the time to have a break so they make their own by not actually answering the calls they are meant to be taking.

Sorry, still not convinced.

I had NOT ONE SINGLE withheld number call from ANY of the previous finance companies who tried calling me (10). Every single one showed up on caller display, and most called twice in one day, at which point I blocked them. One day I blocked a number instantly after it called me. The next call I got, same day, was number withheld, and I never got a call from "number withheld" again.

Also, they didn't all call in a mish mash- one number here, another there- it was clear my details were being passed on from one firm to the next. One week one number, the next week another. The withheld number call was the same day as another number and it never happened again. I know by now that these places don't just give up- they keep trying and trying. So why only the one call?
And no, it's not going to be anyone else- my phone number is only 6 months old and I am signed up to TPS, so no-one else has the number. The only calls I ever get are people known to me or these damn finance companies.

I'm totally convinced it was the same living breathing person who called earlier in the day and I shan't listen to anyone saying otherwise so nur.

Check out the number of people on whocallsme.com who get calls with someone breathing, office sounds in the background and no speaking. It ain't just me.

[lazerustheduck]

Sorry, still not convinced.

I had NOT ONE SINGLE withheld number call from ANY of the previous finance companies who tried calling me (10). Every single one showed up on caller display, and most called twice in one day, at which point I blocked them. One day I blocked a number instantly after it called me. The next call I got, same day, was number withheld, and I never got a call from "number withheld" again.

Also, they didn't all call in a mish mash- one number here, another there- it was clear my details were being passed on from one firm to the next. One week one number, the next week another. The withheld number call was the same day as another number and it never happened again. I know by now that these places don't just give up- they keep trying and trying. So why only the one call?
And no, it's not going to be anyone else- my phone number is only 6 months old and I am signed up to TPS, so no-one else has the number. The only calls I ever get are people known to me or these damn finance companies.

I'm totally convinced it was the same living breathing person who called earlier in the day and I shan't listen to anyone saying otherwise so nur.

Check out the number of people on whocallsme.com who get calls with someone breathing, office sounds in the background and no speaking. It ain't just me.Sorry to say this but that sounds like a whole load of Woo. How many times in woo recounting have we heard "I'm totally convinced" and "I shan't listen".>:D

[seren]

;D

I know, it made me laugh just typing it. You might know tons more about it than I do, but I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO ME! ;D;D