Internet security

[bindeweede]

Perhaps I am the only one a bit paranoid about this issue, though I doubt it. You can spend a small fortune on various security programs, but for the private user, there seems to be more and more free stuff available. And it can be very good. I came across this. It's worth reading through all 6 pages.

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=13214

I also find the free Advanced WindowsCare Personal Edition an easy way of cleaning up your hard drive.

http://www.iobit.com/advancedwindowscareper.html

[Anthrax]

I use AVG free and Bit Defender free and thats been just as good as other paid anti virus progammes i have had and better than norton.

[bobdezon]

I just browse with javascript off.No virii, no popups, no problems. I have no firewall, or anything. My ports are closed. Although there is a real risk for the unprotected while accessing the internet, if you understand the machine and the habits its quite safe to just take minor precautions. Seems selling the fear of hackers, is big business for the less than savvy computer user.

[bindeweede]

Seems selling the fear of hackers, is big business for the less than savvy computer user.

But I am talking about the free stuff.

[ZERO]

+1 for AVG free.

I have had no real trouble.

I think being a bit sensible with what you do online goes a long way too.

[Anthrax]

If you have AVG, there is no harm in getting Bit Defender 8 as well, also free and is compatible to work with AVG works as a secondary anti virus.

[Cuddles]

I just browse with javascript off.No virii, no popups, no problems. I have no firewall, or anything. My ports are closed. Although there is a real risk for the unprotected while accessing the internet, if you understand the machine and the habits its quite safe to just take minor precautions. Seems selling the fear of hackers, is big business for the less than savvy computer user.

The trouble with this is that many websites require scripts to run. Using Firefox with NoScript is generally very secure, but it can't protect you from a trusted site which gets compromised. It's important to remember that it's not just you that needs to be protected, and no matter how safe you are, someone else can always screw up and put you in danger. There's also the big problem with "if you understand the machine". The sad fact is that most people really don't.

[Matt]

I just browse with javascript off.No virii, no popups, no problems. I have no firewall, or anything. My ports are closed. Although there is a real risk for the unprotected while accessing the internet, if you understand the machine and the habits its quite safe to just take minor precautions. Seems selling the fear of hackers, is big business for the less than savvy computer user.

Sounds like you'd be vulnerbale to a delibertely misformed IP packet like winbonk.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

Just got newish version of AVG when I refreshed my laptop this week, seems to bundle together spyware and antivirus into same package.

I've stopped using Windows defender cos it seemed to slow my PC down a lot occasionally.

CCCleaner is a useful app for removing a lot of crap from your hard drive, probably for the reasonably experienced only though.

Also used Spybot(?) in the past I think, and Adaware is always useful.

[bobdezon]

But I am talking about the free stuff.

Yeah, I have tried the free stuff because I was curious to see how it would work. I have tried the online AVG, Panda, Trendmicro, and even downloaded symantec antiv virus (you get to use it free for a month) They all have good and bad points. Sometimes they identify suspect files that are nothing to do with virii. Lots of false positives. Sometimes they identify an infection which is not listed anywhere except by the proprietary software your using.

[bobdezon]

The trouble with this is that many websites require scripts to run. Using Firefox with NoScript is generally very secure, but it can't protect you from a trusted site which gets compromised. It's important to remember that it's not just you that needs to be protected, and no matter how safe you are, someone else can always screw up and put you in danger. There's also the big problem with "if you understand the machine". The sad fact is that most people really don't.

I do like firefox, but to be honest I tend to still use IE (habit). I know some websitess require java for functionality, and you can always turn them back on for that site if needed. Yes if a site you trust is compromised you will be likely to be in trouble, and recognising the signs of infection, trojan, or scanned ports will help alot in combatting this. I understand the danger of my machine infecting others (possibly millions) and I do my best to ensure that doesnt happen.

[bobdezon]

Sounds like you'd be vulnerbale to a delibertely misformed IP packet like winbonk.

Winbonk? What is that Matt?

[Matt]

Winbonk? What is that Matt?

Not an exploit as such but an attack that crashes a service on your machine or the whole machine itself. May be used in combination with another exploit that needs to force a reboot or simply to threaten a nuisance.

http://safari.oreilly.com/9780131481046/ch09lev1sec3

Those particular attacks won't work on a machine with the latest services packs and updates but the view is that windows is more vulnerable to new attacks than hardware firewalls.

Win Bonk was a program that sent out bonk packets to target addresses or networks. A Windows 2000 machine on the recieving end died displaying the BSOD.

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/fail-blue-screen.jpg

[Graham Lappin]

With the risk of kicking off a techno-war, I am a MAC user and I don't really have any of these problems

[Matt]

With the risk of kicking off a techno-war, I am a MAC user and I don't really have any of these problems
[/URL]

I'm saying [URL="http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=758"]nothing (http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=758). I'm especially saying nothing about Safari (http://www.macworld.com/article/49484/2006/02/safari.html)

[Mongrel]

And it's not Macs that most people have issues with, it's the evangelical Mac users ;)

[bobdezon]

Not an exploit as such but an attack that crashes a service on your machine or the whole machine itself.

Oh Ddos? I know about that, just never heard of winbonk, thanks mate. O0

[Graham Lappin]

And it's not Macs that most people have issues with, it's the evangelical Mac users ;)

And I say to you, Brothers and Sisters - take up thy MAC and cast down to the devil those Windows PCs. Put your hands together now, for thy MAC and clap, Oh praise the Mac... oh praise the MAC...

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

And I say to you, Brothers and Sisters - take up thy MAC and cast down to the devil those Windows PCs. Put your hands together now, for thy MAC and clap, Oh praise the Mac... oh praise the MAC...

We don't like your sort round this way. :-X

[bindeweede]

http://www.creepygif.com/image.php?i=512

Just good harmless fun.;D

[Graham Lappin]

We don't like your sort round this way. :-X

What, evangelists or Mac users?

I wonder why something as innocuous as PCs or Macs illicit so much strong feeling >:D

[ZERO]

PC vs Mac South Park style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id_kGL3M5Cg

ps

SP is has quite skeptical story lines.

Remember the Mormon one...dumb, dumb, dumb.

[Sgt Badass]

I wonder why something as innocuous as PCs or Macs illicit so much strong feeling >:D

It's been like it forever. In the 80s it was "My Spectrum is better than your Commodore 64" and much like Linux, everyone laughed at the Acorn Electron user.

Then it was "My Amiga is better than your Atari ST". At this time we all laughed at PCs 'cost they were rrrrrubbish.

Every generation needs an argument like this, keeps us geeks happy.

[Graham Lappin]

It's been like it forever. In the 80s it was "My Spectrum is better than your Commodore 64"

What are you talking about - MY Spectrum was better than YOUR Commadore ... not wanting to start another war of course >:D

Like Patrick Moore, I lament the passing of the typewriter "eccentricity is also reflected early on in his [PM] admitting to still using the same 1908 manual Woodstock typewriter"

http://popularscience.co.uk/reviews/rev278.htm

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

What, evangelists or Mac users?

I wonder why something as innocuous as PCs or Macs illicit so much strong feeling >:D

The way I'm feeling at the minute, I want to put my foot through my laptop screen. It has been intermittently freezing (with the hard disk light staying on) so I reset it to factory settings a couple of nights ago. Two years plus of downloaded crap blitzed in seconds.

Last night it froze with same symptoms 3 times....and all I have on it now is XP, AVG, IE7 and SP3. Why are PCs and Windows so crap >:-)

[Matt]

The way I'm feeling at the minute, I want to put my foot through my laptop screen. It has been intermittently freezing (with the hard disk light staying on) so I reset it to factory settings a couple of nights ago. Two years plus of downloaded crap blitzed in seconds.

Last night it froze with same symptoms 3 times....and all I have on it now is XP, AVG, IE7 and SP3. Why are PCs and Windows so crap >:-)

From What you're saying you've replaced windows and the problems are still occuring. That would suggest the hardware is at fault. Usually the Hard Drive is the first to go and that can cause the sort of problems you describe.

[Mongrel]

Over heating can be an issue as well, get an air duster around the vents.

[Matt]

Over heating can be an issue as well, get an air duster around the vents.

Good point.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

Over heating can be an issue as well, get an air duster around the vents.

I let it fully scan the HD when it restored (I love Dells for that single feature - Ctrl + F11 when booting lets you restore to factory settings in about 5 minutes), and it came back ok, although I had previously feared that the HD was a bit flaky.

It can get rather hot underneath, so I will certainly investigate the vents - sounds like a good suggestion.

Its very intermittant, but there may be a correlation with overheating as it does tend to freeze several times in a short period, but might be ok for days.

Regardless, I am am pleased I got round to blitzing it - it runs like a brand new laptop (of 2.5 year old spec ;)).

[Mongrel]

Its very intermittant, but there may be a correlation with overheating as it does tend to freeze several times in a short period, but might be ok for days.

Go to your local hardware store and grab 4 of the rubber doorstops (the type that you screw into the floor), when using your laptop just use one at each corner to raise it up 3/4" or so. This allows more air underneath and through the fans, which is good for any laptop, and costs sod all :smiley:

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

Go to your local hardware store and grab 4 of the rubber doorstops (the type that you screw into the floor), when using your laptop just use one at each corner to raise it up 3/4" or so. This allows more air underneath and through the fans, which is good for any laptop, and costs sod all :smiley:

I've had a look and there is a little bit of dust around the vents, but nothing major. However, the vents are located exactly where they will be totally blocked if a laptop is resting on someone's knee. I wonder if that is possibly the problem, I guess laptops were never really designed to be used on the lap ;)

[Rat]

That's the problem I have with mine. I often use it on my lap, slouched on the sofa with my feet on the coffee table. After half an hour's gaming, I get up to find my legs are almost too hot to touch

[bindeweede]

That's the problem I have with mine. I often use it on my lap, slouched on the sofa with my feet on the coffee table. After half an hour's gaming, I get up to find my legs are almost too hot to touch

Rat,

You do realise, don't you, that you will end up with back problems unless you do something to improve your on-going posture-type situation.:shocked:

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

That's the problem I have with mine. I often use it on my lap, slouched on the sofa with my feet on the coffee table. After half an hour's gaming, I get up to find my legs are almost too hot to touch

Spontaneous Human Combustion - they'll make a new QED about you ;)

[Rat]

Rat,

You do realise, don't you, that you will end up with back problems unless you do something to improve your on-going posture-type situation.:shocked:

A ha ha ha. I'm pleased by the concern, but as an overweight smoker and drinker, I doubt my back will be my biggest concern in later life. I do find the positioning of the fans in modern laptops a problem. When laptops were like large bricks, the fans, or at least a fan, could vent from the back. Now they're all too thin for that, so they mostly vent from the bottom. I thought that my laptop was too loud, and assumed it was down to the protein folding, but it turns out that if I put it on the coffee table, but with about 3 inches of it hanging off the edge, it's almost silent.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

but with about 3 inches of it hanging off the edge, it's almost silent.

I've been doing that tonight and you are so right. There is a steady stream of air blowing out and the underside is relatively cool otherwise. Like you I wish it could still vent out the side.

I've paid loads of attention to making sure my Xbox and Sky box have enough ventilation, I've never really given the laptop much attention.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

Update - Been trying to keep vents exposed and not covered as much as possible, and I've not had a single freeze up in the last week. Might have solved the problem O0

[Mongrel]

Update - Been trying to keep vents exposed and not covered as much as possible, and I've not had a single freeze up in the last week. Might have solved the problem O0
First - Yay! ;D

Second - It may be worth taking it in to a reliable repair centre, get it opened up and cleaned out properly. Dust issues will only get worse :-[

[Rat]

I would agree. For desktop machines, it's easy enough to whip the case off and get an air duster inside. For laptops, I usually put it back together and find that I've got a couple of screws left over, a peculiar rattling noise when the laptop's shaken, and a screen that doesn't quite fit right.