How to be a guitar god!....oh really....

[Dr B]

As some of you know, earlier this year I decided to take up learning the Electric Guitar. I have always fancied learning - but never actually did anything about it.

I am now getting proper lessons from a professional musician / session player / established teacher - and although i have only had a few lessons - and I am totally crap (but enjoying it) - the advice has been fantastic. :cheesy:

However, I have become aware, on my internet travels, of a great deal of guitar-bollocks being touted that may require a skeptical response (hence this discussion being here).

I wonder where one would stand if you paid good money on the "learn to play like hendrix in 5mins" - type claims, if after you have parted with your cash, and spent 5mins - you still sounded like a goose farting in the fog.....:sad: [note - luckily my skepticism has prevented me from parting with my cash....)

On a serious note - there seem to be hundreds of websites out there - some good, some less so - but many making quite odd claims. Jimi Hendrix could not play like Jimi Hendrix after 5mins so the rest of us are stuffed as far as that claim goes. However, is there an issue here for a skeptical take on this? Should we be bothered in the same way we are about other bogus claims?

From what I can tell there is no short cut and it all comes down to practice, practice, practice - even for the greats. There are no 'secret' techniques, no mysteries, no real shortcuts......but many of the websites border on the woo in terms of their claims. Any thoughts? 8) Are some of these wbesites not being slightly predatory? Maybe it's not worthy of a response as no one is dying here......but there may still be a principle here.

[MischiefMonkey]

Who plays real guitar anymore?

You want Guitar Hero's III Legend of Rock on the Wii.

I guess as far as a skeptical take on the claims, would it not be the same as for any scam? Some will apply common sense and realise that the claims are bogus, some will spend money and be disappointed. The best anyone can do is to educate people. Different type of scam, but I get a warm fuzzy feeling in spreading the word of 419eater.

[brettdbass]

Dr B, I'd be interested in seeing any specific examples of these sites and their claims.
I think there is validty in shooting down such claims, for many of the same reasons as those of a Sylvia Brown or a Colin Fry.

Certainly, as a player of many years I totally agree that 90% of it comes down to practice.
Of course, learning from an experienced teacher or, as I do, closely watching a talented player and discovering new techniques that way, expands your repertoire much faster and more reliably than simply teaching yourself. But yes, there is no "play like Hendrix - QUICK" system that can possibly work, ever.

[Matt]

Marge (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001413/): [referencing Lisa playing the saxaphone] Do you think she could be a professional someday?
Li'l Ludwig's Music School Teacher: Oh lord no!
Lisa (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0810379/): But I'll practice every day!
Li'l Ludwig's Music School Teacher: Yeah well I'll be frank with ya Lisa and when I say frank I mean, you know, devastating. You've inherrited a finger condition known as stubbiness, it usually comes from the father's side...


Well that's my excuse and I'm sticking with it.

[bobdezon]

You, nor nobody else will play like Hendrix in 5 minutes from scratch. If you already can play guitar, and have good ears, you can "see" what Hendrix is doing to the fretboard "with your ears". Its a hard concept to explain but you basically know where the notes are, and how the progressions advance, and you can replicate it yourself (if you have sufficient skill to begin with).

What can you actually learn in 5 minutes? I would say probably only finger placement for a couple of chords.

There are however ways to "cheat" using a guitar. You do need to be an established player before you can implement them however. After a while you realise quite a few musical pieces are based on simple progressions, or slightly alternative riffs etc. When you know what these are you will begin to recognise them everywhere. Like the Memphis scale etc.

[Cuddles]

Learn to play guitar in 5 easy lessons! And 18 hard ones.

[Mojo]

You won't get anywhere in only 23 lessons.

[Cuddles]

You won't get anywhere in only 23 lessons.

I don't know, I've never had any lessons and... oh, right.

[brettdbass]

I'll teach you how to play better than Hendrix in five minutes...

I'll teach you how to play the bassoon, admittedly, but I'm pretty sure you'll be better than Hendrix ever was on it by the time we're done.

[dashwood]

You, nor nobody else will play like Hendrix in 5 minutes from scratch. sorry bob, but i play guitar just like jimmy hendrix when he had been playing for 5 mins.O0
seriously though i have been playing guitar on and off for 25years and am still rubbish, i think the real players are born with talant. ;D

[ZERO]

sorry bob, but i play guitar just like jimmy hendrix when he had been playing for 5 mins.O0
seriously though i have been playing guitar on and off for 25years and am still rubbish, i think the real players are born with talant. ;D

I think if you played for an hour everyday for a whole year instead of "off and on" you would make a lot of progress.
However, I think natural talent helps the better players. (not me :'()


I think there is cause for a skeptic look at the mystique surrounding the vacuum tubes used in guitar amplifiers.
Some "golden ears" say that 50 year old NOS valves sound better than any currently produced.
There are also valves that have had cryogenic treatment and some with gold pins etc, etc.
Do these really make an audible difference?

[bobdezon]

valve amps do seem to be better than electronic solid state versions. They have a primative fuzziness which reminds the user of the classic tunes that inspired them to learn the guitar in the first place. It is like the difference between .wav and .mp3 I think (analogywise). The wav can preserve the hiss and click, the mp3 removed all noise it considers "fluff" to reduce filesize. The valve amps just seem to have more "presence". Technically though the solid state versions are vastly superior in almost every way. Infact I have a Trace Elliot Super Tramp Twin Reverb unit with twin 12" Celestion Speakers (In a very sleek british racing green) O0

Its solid state btw, not valve.

[brettdbass]

There are endless discussions on what I will randomly call the tube effect (and many other audiophile subjects) over at JREF.

This one seems most appropriate for the current discussion...
http://www.randi.org/forumlive/showthread.php?t=96521
(http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=96521&highlight=tube+valve)

[ZERO]

valve amps do seem to be better than electronic solid state versions. They have a primative fuzziness which reminds the user of the classic tunes that inspired them to learn the guitar in the first place. It is like the difference between .wav and .mp3 I think (analogywise). The wav can preserve the hiss and click, the mp3 removed all noise it considers "fluff" to reduce filesize. The valve amps just seem to have more "presence". Technically though the solid state versions are vastly superior in almost every way. Infact I have a Trace Elliot Super Tramp Twin Reverb unit with twin 12" Celestion Speakers (In a very sleek british racing green) O0

Its solid state btw, not valve.
::)

I'm not questioning valve amps.
I have a valve amp too and I think the tone of one is superior to solid state.


What I'm talking about in my previous post is about differences between valves themselves.

[bobdezon]

Oh, sorry. I misread your post. No I dont think there is any noticable audio difference between basic new valves and classically old ones. Cryogenically frozen, gold pinned variations just seem a bit silly to me. Like those $7,500 cables that provide "improvimocation" for your audio ;D

[ZERO]

A lot of guys are prepared to spend the extra money on this sort of stuff and swear black and blue they are superior.

I would love to see how they go in a blind test.

[Dr B]

Dr B, I'd be interested in seeing any specific examples of these sites and their claims.
I think there is validty in shooting down such claims, for many of the same reasons as those of a Sylvia Brown or a Colin Fry.

I do not want to provide a direct link here - but if you Google something along the lines of "learning to play the electric guitar" and similar variations on this theme - you will land on some of the more dodgy sites. You will also find some good ones as well - dont get me wrong - there are some excellent resources out there - but there are some rather questionable ones as well.



Certainly, as a player of many years I totally agree that 90% of it comes down to practice.

As a player of only a few weeks :-[ I totally agree with you. Put nothing in get nothing out. I think it is important to note that although many guitarists make it look easy - it is far from actually being easy.



Of course, learning from an experienced teacher or, as I do, closely watching a talented player and discovering new techniques that way, expands your repertoire much faster and more reliably than simply teaching yourself. But yes, there is no "play like Hendrix - QUICK" system that can possibly work, ever.

Totally agree with you there. I think Slash claims to be totally self-taught as does clapton - but my hunch is they have been around teachers and better gutarists as they learned - which may have acted as a form of 'tuition'

I love Clapton - he is certianly no technician - but the 'feel' he gives in some of his stuff is amazing (at least to me). That 'feel' may well be what cannot be taught......

[Dr B]

I think if you played for an hour everyday for a whole year instead of "off and on" you would make a lot of progress.

I hope so as that is all i can spend on it really. I actually play (without the amp) while watching Channel 4 news and Newsnight etc - I practice the techniques (strumming etc) and hand streching excercises. This I do most nights so that - even if I dont practice chords or leads, I am getting some benefit.

As for talent - well, I'd say I have none having never picked up an instrument with any real intention in my life. I did have a guitar in my younger days - but it gathered more dust than anything else. I wonder if the 'talent' issue is related to youth?

If you took a 16 year old and they pacticed for a month (1-hour a night) and a 40year old and they did the same (all else being equal) I wonder if the age thing matters that much.

You could argue that the 16 year will have more supple hands and is still growing so will be more nimble.....however, the 40 year old is more likely to sustain their attention for longer and have a longer attention span for information they are interested in........hhhmmmm I feel an experiment coming on.....

[ZERO]

One more thing younger ones usually have is more time to spend playing.
My twelve year old is learning and on a weekend has spent 6 hours straight noodling away. :shocked:

As for practicing while watching TV, my wife won't let me. :'(
Two guitars going in the house all day would be too much.

[brettdbass]

All the best in your learnings, Dr B.

I must say, I am disappointed that nobody wants to take me up on the bassoon lessons, though >:-)



^-^

[Mojo]

I must say, I am disappointed that nobody wants to take me up on the bassoon lessons, though >:-)


It would probably be too heavy to carry around. Do you do tenor oon lessons?

[Mojo]

I hope so as that is all i can spend on it really. I actually play (without the amp) while watching Channel 4 news and Newsnight etc - I practice the techniques (strumming etc) and hand streching excercises. This I do most nights so that - even if I dont practice chords or leads, I am getting some benefit.

As for talent - well, I'd say I have none having never picked up an instrument with any real intention in my life. I did have a guitar in my younger days - but it gathered more dust than anything else. I wonder if the 'talent' issue is related to youth?

If you took a 16 year old and they pacticed for a month (1-hour a night) and a 40year old and they did the same (all else being equal) I wonder if the age thing matters that much.

You could argue that the 16 year will have more supple hands and is still growing so will be more nimble.....however, the 40 year old is more likely to sustain their attention for longer and have a longer attention span for information they are interested in........hhhmmmm I feel an experiment coming on.....


There, you see you've got distracted already!

[brettdbass]

It would probably be too heavy to carry around. Do you do tenor oon lessons?

I could give it a go, yeah. Why the hell not.

I'll even push the boat out and try my hand at Sopranoon lessons, if the money's good enough!

[Mongrel]

I could give it a go, yeah. Why the hell not.

I'll even push the boat out and try my hand at Sopranoon lessons, if the money's good enough!

As long as you don't start Hurdy Gurdy lessons I'll be happy. :smiley:

[bindeweede]

As long as you don't start Hurdy Gurdy lessons I'll be happy. :smiley:

A sopranoon would probably be an oboe.:smiley: And what is wrong with a Hurdy Gurdy? I've been winding mine up for years.

Yes, OK. Time for bed.:-[

[Mongrel]

And what is wrong with a Hurdy Gurdy? I've been winding mine up for years.

Having been subjected to "Ye Authentice Minstrels" at re-enactment events I can assure you, they're a source of great pain. :tongue:

[bobdezon]

With a hey, nonny, nooooooooooooo! :sad:

[bindeweede]

Who plays real guitar anymore?

You want Guitar Hero's III Legend of Rock on the Wii.

I guess as far as a skeptical take on the claims, would it not be the same as for any scam? Some will apply common sense and realise that the claims are bogus, some will spend money and be disappointed. The best anyone can do is to educate people. Different type of scam, but I get a warm fuzzy feeling in spreading the word of 419eater.

Sorry if this is OT, but I enjoyed it.

i4BYMvVvMg0

[bobdezon]

Zomg I love jerry reed O0

[brodski]

Having been subjected to "Ye Authentice Minstrels" at re-enactment events I can assure you, they're a source of great pain. :tongue:

In that case maybe lessons would be in order?

;)

[Mongrel]

In that case maybe lessons would be in order?

;)

It was easier to get drinking :)