Who or what was Telisiphe/ Telesiphe?

[dalriada]

This is a bit of an odd question, but I suspect this is the best place to get an answer. I'm doing a bit of research (purely for fun) into the paranormal experiments and explorations of a group of Irish literary revival authors. What's interesting me at the moment is that one of the young poets was driven to the point of madness by his passion for one of the young mediums of the time, who later became quite a star in the survival-after-death archives. After some years of unrequited lust (at least on his part), they marry and two weeks later, still unconsummated the marriage is over. I've done a fair bit of reading around this but haven't been able to work out exactly what went on between them. I suspect she may actually have been a lesbian who married him out of pity. It's also generally acknowledged that their relationship subsequently inspired the abandoned husband's subsequent poetry.

However, this is pretty much written in code with some fairly obscure mythological references- one of which refers to her as being "like telisiphe", this sounds greek to me, and possibly more likely to be telesiphe with an e. Given the context of the other references it may have something to do with muses, deception, mimicry or the general unreliability of women and oracles, but I don't know... Does anyone here? Possibly Dr S?

[Janot]

However, this is pretty much written in code with some fairly obscure mythological references- one of which refers to her as being "like telisiphe", this sounds greek to me, and possibly more likely to be telesiphe with an e. Given the context of the other references it may have something to do with muses, deception, mimicry or the general unreliability of women and oracles, but I don't know... Does anyone here? Possibly Dr S?I have looked in Routledge Greek Mythology and the Oxford Classical Dictionary, and found no reference with either spelling. Liddle and Scott (the ultimate Greek dictionary) does not give the word as an attested Greek word for any of the possible spellings with e being eta or epsilon. >:-) Google suggests I might mean telescope

[dalriada]

Thankyou for looking.
I am really starting to obsess over this, like a really annoying cross-word clue...

[Janot]

Thankyou for looking.
I am really starting to obsess over this, like a really annoying cross-word clue...I have just checked with TLG, which is a computerized compendium of all Ancient Greek words, and there is nothing attested in any spelling variation.

[Julia]

It sounds a bit like one of the Nine Muses - Terpsichore - but obviously isn't. All I could find was a butterfly called Heliconius telesiphe, which doesn't make much sense except that it is associated with mimicry.

http://www.tolweb.org/Heliconius_telesiphe/72929

"Heliconius telesiphe occurs in mid-elevations in the Andes, where it is involved in a mimicry complex with another heliconiine species, Podotricha telesiphe."

Any good? You've got me obsessed now!

[Janot]

It sounds a bit like one of the Nine Muses - Terpsichore - but obviously isn't. I can assure you it is not any Greek deity that we know of.

[Julia]

It occurs to me that Heliconis is suggestive of Mount Helicon, the home of the muses, and also that butterflies were once regarded as psychopomps or symbols of resurrection - both suitable images for a female medium.

[Lord Muck oGentry]

I'm wondering whether Erato might not be the Muse to go for:
http://zipcodezoo.com/Key/Heliconiinae_Subfamily.asp

[DrS]

It doesn't mean anything to me, and I wondered whether the t might be a tau or theta, or whether the e was an epsilon or an eta ... nothing.

When you say obscure mythological refs, what others are there? What is the form of the code?

Interesting O0

[Fiona]

It occurs to me it might be a name for one of the sidhe?

It is also the name for one of the passion flowers



From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passiflora_telesiphe#column-one), search (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passiflora_telesiphe#searchInput)
Passiflora telesiphe
Conservation status (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_status)
Data deficient
Scientific classification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_classification) Kingdom: Plantae (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant)
Division: Magnoliophyta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowering_plant)
Class: Magnoliopsida (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnoliopsida)
Order: Malpighiales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malpighiales)
Family: Passifloraceae (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passifloraceae)
Genus: Passiflora (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passiflora)
Species: P. telesiphe
Binomial name (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binomial_nomenclature) Passiflora telesiphe
S.Knapp & Mallet Passiflora telesiphe is a species of plant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant) in the Passifloraceae (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passifloraceae) family. It is endemic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endemism) to Ecuador (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecuador).

and of some kind of long winged insect (I think)

http://zipcodezoo.com/Animals/H/Heliconius_telesiphe_telesiphe.asp

[Janot]

It occurs to me that Heliconis is suggestive of Mount Helicon, the home of the musesHesiod was by far the most authoritative Greek poet on religious matters: Theogony 52 describes the Muses as Olympian, and 62 "a little way from the top -most peak of snowy Olympus. There are their bright dancing-places and beautiful homes.." Line 75 "The Muses sang who dwell on Olympus ....Cleio and Euterpe, Thaleia, Melpomene and Terpsichore, and Erato and Polhymnia and Urania and Calliope"

I could drone on about the etymologies of their names if you like - part of my PhD.

[Fiona]

It occurs to me it might be a name for one of the sidhe?

It is also the name for one of the passion flowers



From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passiflora_telesiphe#column-one), search (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passiflora_telesiphe#searchInput)
Passiflora telesiphe
Conservation status (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_status)
Data deficient
Scientific classification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_classification) Kingdom: Plantae (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant)
Division: Magnoliophyta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowering_plant)
Class: Magnoliopsida (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnoliopsida)
Order: Malpighiales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malpighiales)
Family: Passifloraceae (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passifloraceae)
Genus: Passiflora (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passiflora)
Species: P. telesiphe
Binomial name (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binomial_nomenclature) Passiflora telesiphe
S.Knapp & Mallet Passiflora telesiphe is a species of plant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant) in the Passifloraceae (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passifloraceae) family. It is endemic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endemism) to Ecuador (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecuador).

and of some kind of long winged insect (I think)

http://zipcodezoo.com/Animals/H/Heliconius_telesiphe_telesiphe.asp

oops missed your post Julia, sorry

[Janot]

It doesn't mean anything to me, and I wondered whether the t might be a tau or theta, or whether the e was an epsilon or an eta ... nothing.

I can't find anything in TLG even with a theta.

[DrS]

They seem to have a dual location on Olympus and Helicon, hardly surprising for what was, in essence, originally a Thraco-Boeotian cult. Even Hesiod mixes and matches here. They become definitively "from Helicon" with Callimachus, relatively late really.

Doesn't get us any further with Telisiphe though :-[

[Janot]

Doesn't get us any further with Telisiphe though :-[Agreed - I can't think of any connection. I can't find any Greek word from which Tele/i/siphe might be derived, and I have no idea where taxonomists get their words from. I think we need to know more about the context.

[median]

This is a bit of an odd question, but I suspect this is the best place to get an answer. I'm doing a bit of research (purely for fun) into the paranormal experiments and explorations of a group of Irish literary revival authors. What's interesting me at the moment is that one of the young poets was driven to the point of madness by his passion for one of the young mediums of the time, who later became quite a star in the survival-after-death archives. After some years of unrequited lust (at least on his part), they marry and two weeks later, still unconsummated the marriage is over. I've done a fair bit of reading around this but haven't been able to work out exactly what went on between them. I suspect she may actually have been a lesbian who married him out of pity. It's also generally acknowledged that their relationship subsequently inspired the abandoned husband's subsequent poetry

Would this be Austin Clarke, by any chance?

[dalriada]

Would this be Austin Clarke, by any chance?

The very man (1896-1974). Only on this forum would someone have guessed that! The woman Clarke refers to as "Margaret" in his autobiographical works, is apparently Geraldine Cummins, who also used the name "Lia Cummins" and possibly "Cornelia Cummins". Suffragette, librarian, Playwright and one of the most prolific automatic writing mediums of all time. I first came across her while reading up on Somerville & Ross and was not enamoured at all, but I've become progressively more and more fascinated with her remarkable ability to be whoever people appear to want her to be and to blend into social situations without being personally remarked upon, as anything other than the persona she's adopted at the time. A human chameleon and a consummate survivor. But what did she do to Austin Clarke?

I've been surprised to find just how much automatic writing was practiced by the Irish literary set- I had thought it was just Yeats. Geraldine's productions are very far from convincing from a paranormal perspective though and having ploughed through a fair bit of it, I'm astonished at some of the people who lent their names to promoting it as survival evidence. The former SPR president, classicist, ER Dodds was a notable exception, but as he was a contemporary of Austin Clarke in the younger age group of that Dublin literary circle, I'm wondering if his refusal to write a preface for one of her books might partly have been due to loyalty to an old friend... Strangely for a psychic Geraldine seems quite equivocal about the claims she makes- in her autobiography she even wonders if she had "a Secondary personality". She did however make a more definite claim to have worked as spy during the second world war which, in contrast to her mediumistic abilities, appears to have drawn very little public comment. However there is enough evidence around to believe that was in fact true.

Thanks for the Telesiphe suggestions- much appreciated, I'm very taken with Julia's butterfly explanation.

[Roger]

You- or your sources- have confused two people. (Corne)lia Cummins married Austin Clarke. She died in 1943. According to W.J. Mc Cormack in Blood Libel she became a Nazi propagandist and antisemite. Geraldine Cummins was the medium and lived much longer. I don't know how- or if- they were related.