What if....

[Zaira]

chillzero,

Welcome to the new thread. Sorry, changed my mind about the title. I hope you are still up for discussing things. I read your article. And I need to say that that is not how I see it. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying I might have had the wrong end of the stick all along. I was only twenty and quite stressed out when I read the book that started all this off for me. I was down, I was so down that there was nowhere else to go. I grasped at that book like it was a lifeline.

I would like to post my actual take on things and invite you to comment on it.

"Of course I can make certain decisions, and take certain practical steps, but I don't direct my life by virtue of asking/hoping/wishing for things."

Neither do I. Even my little anecdotes were not me asking for things, it was more about talking about someone or something and it unexpectedly turning up.

"It was not a personal attack on you, or a criticism of you. Yes - a criticism of the belief you were promoting, but I hope now you understand why I criticised it."

I do understand. And I would like to borrow this and direct it back at you. This is not a personal attack on you, or a criticism of you. And I hope you understand that with this post I'm just trying to make myself clearer.

We think about our lives and the people in it, we ponder and we presume and we have beliefs and opinions, all these influence and affect our lives. Right? Now take worrying, we can decide to stop worrying. It's the difference between worrying about debts and working out how to pay off the debts. By doing this we are changing the outcome - we are creating a different reality.

The expression creating your own reality is often misunderstood. I hated the book 'The Secret' because I think the author got it wrong. We are not looking to create the life we want. We are creating the life we have every day from our thoughts. And by becoming aware of it and working consciously to exchange our more negative thoughts for more positive ones, we improve the quality of our life in small ways. That's all I meant by creating your own reality.

"You should not accept any form of blame for when things don't work out for you."

I agree, we are not to blame for something that was happening while we were unaware of it. I have become aware of this, magical thinking or not, I was a very negative person who nothing good ever seemed to happen to. I became aware of the fact that I had to change what I was thinking about, change how I was thinking. I had to become more positive.

We should not accept blame. What we should accept is responsibility. Once we realise that we are creating our own reality from what we think then, if we want to improve the quality of our life, we have the responsibility to ourselves to think more positively.

"I went for years believing I was a jinx - some kind of big walking negative black hole that sucked all the positivity out of life, and magnetically attracted disasters. I have faced someone I care about and in all honesty warned them to keep a distance from the bad things that follow me around."

If I may... And please don't take this the wrong way. But this is just what I was trying to get at. You believed that and it was true.

What if you had been aware of how thinking like that was effecting your life and that you could change it? Say you were tired and fed up of thinking of yourself as a jinx and thought "Enough is enough! I am not a jinx!" Do you think it would have made any difference?

[BillB]

Hi,

I agree that it is possible to change your personal reality (quality of life) by thinking positive and being practically positive. Hey but this isn’t always easy to achieve in the practical sense.

How easy is it to think positive and say I’ m going to shed a few pounds, stop smoking, run around the block every morning regardless of the weather. That’s really easy to think, but not so easy to put in practice, without some help and support from others.

If you are really on your own then it’s going to be quite tuff to dig out of these type of situations. But what if I suddenly decided to believe in God and Ghosts, would it suddenly change (improve) the quality of my life?

BillB

[chillzero]

"I went for years believing I was a jinx - some kind of big walking negative black hole that sucked all the positivity out of life, and magnetically attracted disasters. I have faced someone I care about and in all honesty warned them to keep a distance from the bad things that follow me around."

If I may... And please don't take this the wrong way. But this is just what I was trying to get at. You believed that and it was true.

What if you had been aware of how thinking like that was effecting your life and that you could change it? Say you were tired and fed up of thinking of yourself as a jinx and thought "Enough is enough! I am not a jinx!" Do you think it would have made any difference?

Ah, it was all going so well up to that point.

Zaira, my life was bad regardless of how I felt about it. When I stopped believing I was a jinx, it didn't suddenly improve. More than five years later I am still struggling with a long chain of bad luck and ill health. I cope better because I know it was not my fault, and that I am not a jinx, but the problem was never created by my believing that in the first place.

Yes, occasionally it stil gets me down - I doubt anyone can cope with prolonged periods of stress and pain without it wearing them out every now and then. Every now and then I fnd it hard to walk away from the thought "Why me?".

I completely agree that we have a degree of control over our situations which can be affected by our positive or negative approaches to them. I believe I said as much. However, some events will happen regardless. I did not have some idiot drive into the back of my car because I expect problems in my life. It wasn't true when I believed it and it happened 6 years ago, and it wasn't true when it happened again this year. I didn't create that reality. I was sitting in my car, at a stop on both occasions, and no matter what thoughts or beliefs were going through my head, each car would still have hit me. Interestingly, I am having more physical problems this time, than the last, even though last time I was encouraged in my belief that I created the reality of such an incident.

As a funny aside - I was sent to a physiotherapist this time, who suggested that yes, indeed, perhaps I invited this accident to happen because my body had been trying to tell me it needed some downtime and attention. I have now moved to a new therapist, although I had some interesting discussion with teh first - having come from that kind of training myself.

Anyway - to the point at hand, Zaira, I hope you can see the danger in this belief system. I was driven almost to the point of suicide years ago, because I believed that no matter what I did, I seemed to attract bad luck. I meditated, I grounded myself, I gave thanks to the powers of nature, I spoke to Spirit and blessed my path every day. I tried to be generous and loving and put everyone else's needs before my own. I was repaid constantly with more bad luck, and the confirmation from my peers that I was doing it all to myself. They told me that I had the power to create my own reality, and that I must only be enjoying the attention I was getting from needing help all the time. (Help that most often, I wasn't actually getting from anyone outside my family).

I was made to feel selfish and like a negative, whiny person who didn't appreciate things. I was made to feel that this aspect of me was affecting the lives of everyone close to me. I felt like a curse. I felt like a black blot on the earth that absorbed negativity, and attracted terrible things like a magnet.

I felt that if I was able to create my reality, and the reality I was living with was so tough, that clearly I was to blame. How else could I see it?

Now, in the years since, my run of bad luck has not really changed. In fact, some things have been harder and harder than the things before - it's like steps on a ladder. I cope. I am a strong person who survived all the things I handled before - mainly alone. I know I can do it. Only one set of incidents has yet taken the wind out of me so badly that I needed someone else to hold me up and be my rock.

I don't feel my attitude has changed much, because I was always one to try and smile through the bad stuff, but I no longer think I made everything happen in the first place. I accept responsibility for the choices I make that affect things - definitely. I approach everything with as positive an outlook as I can.

This is the difference I was trying to explain to you. Yes, I believed I was a jinx, and yes, bad things kept happening. Now, I don't believe I am a jinx, and bad things still happen. When I believed I was a jinx, I also had good things - I have a wonderful daughter, and took long walks in the countryside and so on. I took time to appreciate those, and apply the good feelings that came with them to buoy me through the hard times. I still have good things to be thankful for. My intentions have no effect on most events that happen in my life. I can affect choices, and impact to an extent - not the events. My accidents are excellent examples - I have no influence on the fact that each of these drivers made the choices, and took the actions that led them to my car those days.

[Zaira]

BillB,

Thanks for the input.

I agree, it isn’t easy. But I was twenty and my abusive dad had just committed suicide I had nowhere to go but up. I wasn't very well educated but I loved to read books. So that's where I decided to look for the answers that would make my life better.

"How easy is it to think positive and say I’m going to shed a few pounds, stop smoking, run around the block every morning regardless of the weather. That’s really easy to think, but not so easy to put in practice, without some help and support from others."

I agree. But it's not that kind of thinking, it's the more predominant thoughts that seem to have the final decision about what tomorrow will bring.

If you are trying to lose weight or quit smoking the self-talk (those little conversations you have with yourself) is often negative; I'm putting on weight, I'm smoking too much. The secret is to think about what you want as if it’s on it’s way; "I'm losing weight and I feel great!"

"If you are really on your own then it’s going to be quite tuff to dig out of these type of situations."

Actually I think it's better when you are on your own, and a little more difficult when other people are around - too many distractions. This positive thinking lark can be practised through meditation and relaxation.

"But what if I suddenly decided to believe in God and Ghosts, would it suddenly change (improve) the quality of my life?"

I believe this is at the bottom of people believing in 'God and Ghosts' (I believe in neither). My theory is that something happened to make someone believe in ghosts, and people who believe in them are more likely to see them (this doesn‘t mean that I believe they exist). Our thoughts create our tomorrow.

[Zaira]

chillzero,

Thank you for sharing that with me. I do understand what you are saying. I have this theory I read about in a book, sometimes it works for me and sometimes it doesn't. I have had bad things happen too over the last few years. It's just a theory, it isn't infallible. Maybe it just brings us back to what seems to work for one person won't always work for another. I'm sorry if I caused you any upset over bringing up all those memories. I suffer today, not because of the things that happen to me but because of the things that happen to people I love. I get angry and pissed off and wonder why my 'theory' doesn't work to keep them safe. You may be right. I'm going to give it some more thought. thank you for taking the time to reply so in depth.

[chillzero]

Zaira,
If I was upset to discuss it, I wouldn't - that's the great thing about forums. :smiley:

If you apply such a theory, you need to be certain that the misses are not discounted as having an off day, and that hits (that would most likely have happened anyway) are not played up to mean more than they do. It either would work, or wouldn't. I am not looking to upset you either. Perhaps I speak a little too passionately about this one topic - it is close to my heart, as you can see.

[BillB]

Hi,

Zaira
Our thoughts create our tomorrow.

Indeed thoughts might lead to an idea and an idea into a physical construction of that idea. However dare I admit that I sense that you might also envisage a notion that thought alone, could also be a possible creator of our reality?

I do read a lot of your posts with interest, but a lot of them I find too deep for me to comment up on.

BillB :smiley:

[Zaira]

chillzero,

"If you apply such a theory, you need to be certain that the misses are not discounted as having an off day, and that hits (that would most likely have happened anyway) are not played up to mean more than they do. It either would work, or wouldn't. I am not looking to upset you either. Perhaps I speak a little too passionately about this one topic - it is close to my heart, as you can see."

No worries, you didn't upset me. I guess I've played around with it for too long without taking a really good look at it more often. You made me think more and want to read more, maybe I misunderstood the theory behind it. It wouldn't be the first time I read a book and got it all wrong. Thanks again. I hope we might go on to discuss something less serious perhaps.

[Zaira]

BillB,

Forgive me, I missed that one. I was a bit deep in thought from chillzero posts.

"Indeed thoughts might lead to an idea and an idea into a physical construction of that idea."

All I can say is look around you, everything you see began as a thought in someone's head.

"However dare I admit that I sense that you might also envisage a notion that thought alone, could also be a possible creator of our reality?"

No not thought alone, otherwise I would just have to think ice cream and I have an ice cream in my hand. Don't have all the answers, but I think it's more to do with paying attention to our more predominant thoughts, checking that we are not dwelling on or worrying about something too much instead of planning positive action.

"I do read a lot of your posts with interest, but a lot of them I find too deep for me to comment up on."

Maybe not so deep. Maybe just a little confused. I'm doing a bit of soul searching. Stick around, I hope to make things clearer soon.

[chillzero]

No not thought alone, otherwise I would just have to think ice cream and I have an ice cream in my hand.


But then why would you have said this just beforehand?




All I can say is look around you, everything you see began as a thought in someone's head.


I look around and see flowers, dogs, cats ...

[Zaira]

chillzero,

Hi! Okay. Being a bit wary here, I know what I mean just worried about wording it wrong and upsetting someone.

Look at your flowers - someone thought about growing them. Your cat and your dog - someone thought about having some cats or dogs and breading them. Your desk, your computer, your chair - You! All the result of a thought in someone’s head. Going a little further. Most of the time we just think or have an idea. What I’m trying to saying is that we can choose what we want in our life. Oh dear, I hope this doesn’t upset anyone but… The quality of our thoughts determine the quality of our life.

*Zaira hides behind a cushion*

[chillzero]

chillzero,

Hi! Okay. Being a bit wary here, I know what I mean just worried about wording it wrong and upsetting someone.

Look at your flowers - someone thought about growing them. Your cat and your dog - someone thought about having some cats or dogs and breading them. Your desk, your computer, your chair - You! All the result of a thought in someone’s head. Going a little further. Most of the time we just think or have an idea. What I’m trying to saying is that we can choose what we want in our life. Oh dear, I hope this doesn’t upset anyone but… The quality of our thoughts determine the quality of our life.

*Zaira hides behind a cushion*

The flowers I see are all wild and dropped by nature.

I am sure that you know my objections to this theory by now. :)

[Zaira]

Yes I think I do.

[BillB]

Hi,

Zaira
No not thought alone, otherwise I would just have to think ice cream and I have an ice cream in my hand. Don't have all the answers, but I think it's more to do with paying attention to our more predominant thoughts, checking that we are not dwelling on or worrying about something too much instead of planning positive action.

The thought was more of a subtle effect of creation and although not written down (in my original question) would need to take into consideration any power (unknown) derived from multiples of similar thoughts, for example the act of prayer of mass prayer?

So do you now consider thoughts (or multiples of) alone as a possible means of a creation effect?

BillB :smiley:

[Zaira]

BillB,

Sorry, I don't understand the question.

Here is a link to the book I got that stuff from.

Free Ebook - The Master Key System
http://www.psitek.net/pages/PsiTekTMKSContents.html

You might find the answer to your question there.

[BillB]

Hi,

Zaira

BillB,

Sorry, I don't understand the question.

Here is a link to the book I got that stuff from.

Free Ebook - The Master Key System
http://www.psitek.net/pages/PsiTekTMKSContents.html (http://www.psitek.net/pages/PsiTekTMKSContents.html)

You might find the answer to your question there.

Thanks for the link and I will make time to read through it. However I'm not looking for an answer from any reference literature. I'm looking for an answer to my question from you?

So in your opinion can thought alone cause change? The example I used was prayer, because I have often heard it said that prayer changes things?

You might also consider alleged healing by laying on of hands, or is it just the hands doing the work, not requiring any thought at all?

These are not trick questions for some future skeptical plot or character assassination. Simply put, it might help me better understand your postings if you could try and reply to this question and perhaps to others I might ask?

BillB :smiley:

[Zaira]

8) PM

[Cuddles]

All I can say is look around you, everything you see began as a thought in someone's head.

So how did anything happen before humans evolved?

[Zaira]

Sorry, I don't have the answer to that question. Do you?

[Cuddles]

Sorry, I don't have the answer to that question. Do you?

Yes. If things only happen because we think about them, the only possible conclusion is young Earth creationism. Since this is provably wrong, your ideas are wrong. Things happened exactly the same way before humans evolved as they do now.

[Zaira]

Thanks. Not sure what 'young Earth creationism' is though?