Religiosity

[Bill Davison]

? - Who Needs Absurd ‘Beliefs’ - ?
Reflections of an Octogenarian

Religiosity? – Throughout life, I’ve never regarded this subject as deserving of any serious thought - - - However, with quietus in the offing, the excessive religious coverage in the media inevitably agitates the neurons.
Of late, these irritants have provoked a deep re-appraisal - - - that has utterly confirmed my basic intuition!

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Logical conclusions after a lifetime of listening inadvertently to the delusive censures of various ‘Faiths’.

A simple story. No need for the meandrine moonshine of ‘erudite intelligentsia’.
Just take yourself back in time & examine unvarnished facts.

Please acknowledge that the primitive mind was bound to generate, quite naturally, mythological imagery of an Elysian nature.
Also, one must accept that the relative ignorance of early Humanity, coupled with understandable fears of the unknown, provided those individuals seeking power over their fellows (a natural human trait), with the conditions to set up as Medicine-Men - Witch-Doctors - Sorcerers - Soothsayers - - - et al, all claiming to have insights & contact with a ‘power’ - of sorts.

So began the blight of Shamanism - - - leading on to airy-fairy religions.

As time unveiled the past, these facts have not been fully appreciated.
Hence - The ensuing rash of religiosity has not been branded for what it really is - - -

An early conceive - of ignorance & apprehension - - -
Perpetuated thro millennia by IMPOSTORS - Preying on credulous naivety.

The natural process of evolution, via many devious pious paths, has now landed us with the present crop of Archbishops - Ayatollahs - Rabbis - Popes - Imams - JWs - & a host of other hypocritical sect leaders, incessantly brainwashing the largely unthinking masses with their ridiculous & childish ‘Holy Beliefs’.

The Billy Grahams of the world, gifted with gab & showmanship, use their ‘bewitching powers’ to prey on the gullibility of the artless.
Yes indeed, in modern form, the Witch-Doctors are still at it! - - - Mountebanks All!

With it’s initiation as above, religiosity can’t be recognised by any sane person to have the gravitas necessary for any authentic ‘Belief’. Seeking reality is anathema to the pious ones. They critically comment on facts of life that are painstakenly unearthed by the practical hard-working talents of seekers of truth. Knowledge of physics & biology would never have advanced if left to ‘Holy’ men. Sun would still be orbiting Earth. The dim past is their’s, with mystical rites that are still prevalent, albeit with modern trappings. They are an absurdity! Their endeavours to exalt religiosity by the erection of ever more imposing ‘Places of Worship’ merely highlights – Monumentally – the benighted phases of Man’s past. - - - Hell’s Bells! - - - What a shambles!

Weighing up the World-wide situation, a substantial proportion of Humanity are unable to let go of their forebears’ primitive ‘belief’ in a Creator that demands a daily dose of supplication. A person’s specific ‘belief’ is dictated by that part of the globe from where they originated; a simple inheritance of the parents’ unreal ancestral teachings, largely unquestioned! No need to be a ‘Religious Scholar’ (what a fatuous preoccupation) to comprehend why all of this utter humbug survives.

Persistent indoctrination over millennia leave the susceptible with feelings of unease when they attempt to ditch the ingrained silly ‘beliefs’ inherited from similarly misinformed forebears. Most take an apathetic route & run with the various childish theosophical myths passed down through the generations via pious, shallow-thinking naivety - preferring illusion to reality - fantasy to truth.

It has always been decreed that acting on evidential communal common-sense, ie, utilizing everyday experience & research is the only way forward.

The need to consult Biblical, Qur’anic, or any other ancient crap-laden fairy tales in order to pursue a decent & considerate existence beggars belief!

The facts listed above are beyond dispute – Theism? / Divinity? – All absolute Man-made hokum!

Any thinking person realises that the Universe is truly an awesome Quantum / Astronomical creation. As part of that creation, our attempts at it’s full understanding seem futile.

Probing the Atom or ‘Heavenly’ space & we’re contemplating Infinities.

Fouling up our minds with a rag-bag of archaic religiose twaddle does nothing to help enlighten our ignorance!

Anyone taking this farcical subject seriously has to be absolutely pickled in traditional folklore and/or in a sad mental state. Using it’s bogus validity for an easy living and/or monetary gain it’s impostrous practitioners must have no damn conscience at all.

Far too much reverence is devoted to the abstract of religiosity. Vast volumes of impotent bombastic rhetoric has been generated by impostors who use their dominant dishonest acumen to sublimely charm others to wander in an unreal ‘Spiritual Wonderland’ that is totally unworthy of any honest contemplation.

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A rational response to the ‘standard’ questions posed by religious organisations.

What is the point of life?

Need there be a ‘point’. Nature instructs all of life to reproduce; to what end, we just don’t know & it’s most likely that we never will. We can speculate, but are very far short of the necessary insight / knowledge to form a valid judgement!
Nature, red in tooth & claw, is pitilessly indifferent to an individual’s quality of life; the fittest for any environment will prosper. Individual quality of life is a lottery. We have arrived & must make the best of it.
Self-deceivers pray for Ethereal help; none is discernable - - - Quite definitely a DIY job!

We live, utilising facts that the experience of life plus research, provides!

The paralogism of religious charlatans can’t match the knowledge we now possess, scant though it be. Mystical Theosophy is drivel of the first order.

Certainly, life’s purpose cannot be identified by any ancient decrepit ‘Belief’!

What happens when we die?

Starkly, when the brain ceases to function, that ‘being’ ceases to ‘be’.
The motivation driving that unique combination of elements is no more!
A ‘Spiritual Future’ ????? - - - Pure self-indulgent fantasy!
The chemo-electrical activity of the brain – the mind – is capable of generating any illusive mirage. If that imagery is not backed up by factual proof, then it remains a fantasy.
To give any credence to life after death, one must be round the bend, if not well up the straight!

Natural cognition (common sense), affirms life’s future as solely dependent on reproduction!

Is forgiveness possible?

With almost limitless mutations possible, genetic functioning can be expected to produce individuals with characteristics of an exceedingly complex gradation, in a myriad of aspects – eg - - -

Brilliant to Thick – Jovial to Morose – Benign to Sadistic – Hetero to Homo – ad inf.

Religions provide a very accessible dump for the guilt generated by the various indiscretions to which all humans must, in some respect, be victim.

Do not kid thyself – No one is immaculate!

Those gifted with conscience & a degree of ‘normalcy’ just have to live with the unfortunates & scallywags – amongst whom - the ‘Confidence Men’ - enjoying a very comfortable living with their pretentious ‘Divine’ prognostications!

Further thoughts

With the barbarous & brutal acts of differing factions, the mutiplicity of silly ‘Beliefs’ has always been a handicap that humanity can well do without. - - - Common sense must prevail!
As the sponge-like mind of an infant readily absorbs info, authentic or fallacious, in teaching the necessary basics of life, the follies of illogical & delusory religions should be emphasized - - - Strongly!
Offspring should be brought up from birth unprimed with needless pestilential ‘beliefs’. - - - Glaringly Obvious!

Preachers pontificate on a subject so ‘Holey’, it is artlessly transparent. Visualise it’s benighted origins & it’s quite obvious that the early human mind was bound to generate mythological imagery of an Elysian nature & from there, receptive fanciful minds took over. ‘Beliefs’ were surely born of ignorance & fear! With this realisation, why can’t we all recognise simple basic facts & treat all ‘faiths’ of today as ever they really were - - -
A continuing evolution of irrational early thought.

In this more enlightened age - Pure Phantasmic Godswallop!

The Rt Rev Fred Flintstone & his equally-misguided confederates of all other ‘Faiths’ should have dug themselves out of the Stone-age long long ago!

The Past is unveiled thro Time!
Let’s all Profit from it! - Not Perpetuate it! - - - - A m e n

[Admin]

Good post – lot’s to think about there. And welcome Bill. O0

My personal opinion on the origins of religion is that as humans’ cognition developed and we interacted in complex social groups a system of morality emerged as it helped group cohesion; thus a system of morality was ‘selected for’ as it was a useful adaptation.

Now, morality is based on the concern for ourselves and others and a system of social justice for all. But, in order for this system to work, the group has to accept a hierarchy of authority. The rules may emerge from groups adopting behaviours that helped the group survive but there would have to be a system in place where those rules are imposed on those who don’t obey them. Thus arises a need for control and influence over others.

Now, I would argue that this system lays down the foundations for the development of religion. The ultimate authority is their God(s) who has ultimate power over them. God loves them and protects them but only if he’s obeyed. If not, he’ll punish them. This idea combines the power of ruling by charisma (e.g. Hitler to his people in the ‘30s) and ruling by fear (e.g. Stalin). That’s a powerful combination.

Note: I'm arguing that religion arose from the need for morality and not that morality arose from religion (as the religious would have us believe).

Religion would surely have been a strongly cohesive form of morality that benefited early humans as they adapted to living in groups as hunter gatherers.

The problem is that we no longer live that way and the propensity to religion that may be hard-wired into us combined with the cultural inheritance of religious belief is not the best way to think about the modern world. When in-group cohesion and out-group hostility manifests itself in the minds of religiously-motivated leaders with nuclear weapons the potential for danger is obvious.

People like Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris in the USA are publicly trying to tackle this way of thinking – whether they’ll ever manage to make an impact on faith-based thinking remains to be seen however.

[Cuddles]

I'm not sure I agree there. I think morality was certainly incorporated into religion, but I don't think that is actually how religion started. There seems to be an underlying tendancy to anthropomorphise pretty much everything around us. Presumably this is because we know how we feel and think and can't really imagine a different way of thinking, so our own thoughts get projected onto things around us. Since we know that we cause certain things it seems a natural assumption that other effects are also caused by people. The only problem is that really big effects need really big people. If you then accept that there are really big people capable of making mountains and thunder and things, it seems only sensible to beg them not to hurt you or to actually help you, since that is the sort of thing you'd respond to if you were a really big person. I think religion simply grew out of this. Adding morality to it would simply be a practical matter. Instead of employing people with sticks to make everyone behave, you point out that there is a really big person wandering around who you really don't want to piss off.

Of course, all just idle speculation on my part, but I feel it more plausible than morality actually being the start of religion. It certainly played a part in evolving religion as we know it today, but I don't think religion could have developed just from morality without the initial belief in gods already existing.

[tablemonkey]

I think morality would have come first because early humans needed to have more compact and orderly units to make sure the species reproduced. The bigger our brains became the more care the offspring needed from more than one parent, so their morality would ensure survival.

[median]

Of course, all just idle speculation on my part, but I feel it more plausible than morality actually being the start of religion. It certainly played a part in evolving religion as we know it today, but I don't think religion could have developed just from morality without the initial belief in gods already existing.


I think I agree with you, Cuddles. If you look at the polytheistic religions of Ancient Greece and Rome, the 'gods' possessed very little in the way of morality. Wicca is another example of an amoral religion.

[Admin]

Well, I recently watched some lectures given at the Salk institute in California dealing with the science vs. religion debate. There were some great talks by Dawkins and Harris but also some great talks by social scientists and psychologists.

I’ve also been studying evolutionary psychology which covered the issues, amongst others, of the origins of morality and group behaviour theory, and in putting all the info together, formulated the idea given above. Remember, a system of morality that developed in the past would not necessarily contain the same values as we have today (!) it’s the system rather than the values that are important.

Having said that, it’s only a postulation. It certainly can’t be tested nor am I claiming it to be true.

I do think though, that looking at issues from the opposite angle often makes things clearer and looking at the religion giving us morals issue the other way around makes more sense to me.

Morality arose as a consequence of the need to live in complex social groups and religious belief emerged from this system of morality. I find that more satisfactory than concluding that religion somehow developed and subsequently gives us morality. If that is true then the religious are right: without religion we would be amoral. I don’t think that’s true.

OK, this is very much a qualitative idea but I think it is at least plausible and is logically coherent (at least to me ;D).

[Cuddles]

I’ve also been studying evolutionary psychology which covered the issues, amongst others, of the origins of morality and group behaviour theory, and in putting all the info together, formulated the idea given above. Remember, a system of morality that developed in the past would not necessarily contain the same values as we have today (!) it’s the system rather than the values that are important.

Of course, for a great example of that just look at the bible, or pretty much any religious text. They're full of stories and instructions about stoning people, wiping out neighbouring tribes, converting your neighbours oxen and the like. The system is still the same, but the actual moral code we have now is certainly not the same as that in the bible. Given this, the argument that religion gave us morality seems a little silly really.

[Dr B]

Could religion - or even spirituality not have come from causal reasoning biases?

For example, imagine ancient man (and woman :-*). They will have become aware of their surroundings and would, as pattern-seeking creatures, have spotted cycles and patterns in the world around them.

They would have noticed the constellations rotate during the year - and they would have wondered what that meant.

They would have noticed the sun is high in summer and low in winder and this is related to different weather - they would also have wondered what that meant.

They would have noticed the seasons changing and may even have may links to the above points.

They would have seen their crops grow and do well and on other occasions fail - they would seek explanations.

Other random effects like storms, floods, wind etc would all require explanation.

They may have attributed various causal factors here linked to an issue in theory-of-mind where they felt the sun, moon, and all things celestial had intention and intent (thus consciousness). From this its a small step to a God. This may be where offerings and rituals came from - which were nicked by more organised reglion as it grew.

This may help to explain how it all got started - but we may need other explanations for how it developed as humans became farmers and moved in groups (social control?)

[Bill Davison]

John Jackson & others

Morality is a natural product of Human evolution. Over millennia we’ve come to realise that if we don’t comply to certain rules of behaviour, then ‘progress’ will falter.

That doesn’t stop people behaving in ways to give them a certain local superiority, ie, staying ahead of the game.

‘God believers’ have always known that if they look & talk as tho they have some superior Etherial knowledge, the unthinking section of the populace will tail along behind. For me, all pious leaders are Impostors, whatever their flavour.

It’s pretty certain that the basic initiation of 'God belief' was due to the fear & insecurity of early times, & was taken advantage of by those people with a superior mental capability, ie, the spivs of the time.

It seems quite obvious that nature being as it is, if an advantage can be gained over others (a natural human trait), then that is what will happen. It started at the beginnings of cognizance & is obviously still going on today, in all fields of human activity.

Some religious types may be ‘sincere’ re their silly beliefs, but I’m quite sure many of their leaders must feel a prick of conscience now & again.

They can’t be all that damn thick!