'Personality disorders'

[kath23]

Is the concept of 'personality disorders' useful or valid?

Not sure of my opinion, some people do seem genuinely incapable of interacting with people well or functioning well due to how their personality is, rather than an episodic mood disorder.

However its often a pejorative label or used by shrinks for patients they find difficult.

What do you all think?
Love
Kath
P.S. I've never been diagnosed with one I'm glad to say :) However I do know people that have, they were people who are 'difficult.' as in angry, manipulative or attention-seeking.

[VoodooJoe]

By definition a personality disorder isnt actually an illness.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/conditions/mental_health/disorders_person.shtml

From what i can gather its a technical term for someone who is a bit of an a*shole :smiley:

[bindeweede]

By definition a personality disorder isnt actually an illness.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/conditions/mental_health/disorders_person.shtml

From what i can gather its a technical term for someone who is a bit of an a*shole :smiley:

A bit unfair, possibly. Unhelpful, even.

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinformation/mentalhealthproblems/personalitydisorders/pd.aspx

[VoodooJoe]

^^ Not really, this wasnt my opinion rather the definition of personality disorder in common parlance.

We have a bad habit of dressing things in flowery academic language to such an extent we lose sight of the meaning of those things.

for example:

Histrionic personality disorder is basically a technical term for a selfish person who craves attention.

Dissocial personality disorder in its simplest terms is agression and nastiness.

Remember, the descriptions of different personalities disorders are not symtoms of the disorder, they are definitions of the disorder itself.

[bindeweede]

^^ Not really, this wasnt my opinion rather the definition of personality disorder in common parlance.

We have a bad habit of dressing things in flowery academic language to such an extent we lose sight of the meaning of those things.

for example: flowey academic

Histrionic personality disorder is basically a technical term for a selfish person who craves attention.

Dissocial personality disorder in its simplest terms is agression and nastiness.

Remember, the descriptions of different personalities disorders are not symtoms of the disorder, they are definitions of the disorder itself.

I'm not sure that "common parlance" is the best definition of anything.

But I agree that flowery academic language gets everyone nowhere.

But pseudo-scientific references to academic nonsense gets everyone nowhere too.

[VoodooJoe]

Perhaps, but i never intended my statement to be interpreted as scientific.

How would you define personality disorder?

[SimonC]

I'm not sure that the term 'personality disorder' isn't rather too simplistic. It seems to make little distinction between 'personality' and 'emotion'. It's likely that we may all undergo 'emotional disorder', of one kind or another, during our lifetime, but it is our underlying personality which dictates how we deal with difficult circumstances.

For example; most of us will experience bereavement at some point, and depression is not uncommon at such a time. It is our personality which determines how we deal with and, hopefully, overcome this situation.

A stoic personality may just plough-on regardless, whereas a more a more outwardly emotional person may cry on friends' shoulders. Either could be regarded as symptomatic of 'personality disorder', whilst both would actually be due to the interaction between personality and emotion.

I find the list of symptoms defining personality disorders to be problematic. Certainly there are some ( crime, self-harm etc ) which could clearly signify a severely aberrant personality. Many of the others, however, strike me as being similar to Forer/Barnum terms - they could apply to very many of us to some extent. I read something like 'worry a lot', or 'feel bad about yourself', and they seem to be extremely generalistic terms.

What does 'crave new things and excitement' mean, for example? If I would really like a high-definition telly and an adventure holiday, is that symptomatic of a histrionic personality disorder?

I'm not sure that this is a very exact science at all.

[ForAllOfThis]

Narcissistic

have a strong sense of your own self-importance
dream of unlimited success, power and intellectual brilliance
crave attention from other people, but show few warm feelings in return
exploit others
ask for favours that you do not then returnI watched a documentary about this disorder. It was fascinating, they had also operationalised Narcisism so that they could help diagnose people, and it seemed to be done more scientific. People with all 7 of the personality traits associated with narcisism were most likely to become cult leaders so yea I suppose some of them can be serious.

[VoodooJoe]

Personally i have an issue with the use of medical language (such as "diagnose") being used to describe human behaviour, as on some level it excuses that behaviour, i know that sounds judgemental but perhaps thats what we need.

The 7 personality traits of narcissistic personality disorder are not symptoms of a condition, they are observed behaviour of a lifestyle choice, the traits are chosen behaviour, it is not like depression or schizophrenia, where someone has no choice, these traits are the way that person simply chooses to behave.

Dressing it up as illness gives that person even more license to behave that way.

[whitevanwoman]

By definition a personality disorder isnt actually an illness.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/conditions/mental_health/disorders_person.shtml

From what i can gather its a technical term for someone who is a bit of an a*shole :smiley:

I have just discovered this site and thread by googling personality disorder and I have to say I am appalled at this comment. It is no wonder that people who suffer from terrible experiences of mental illness hide from the world with this kind of prejudice. I feel so strongly about this that I have registered simply in order to post this reply.

As someone who has suffered from episodic and what my GP calls "life threatening" depression and anxiety for most of my adult life, I was given a diagnosis of anxious personality disorder about 6 months ago. If you care to research this diagnosis, you will discover that this does not simply mean that I get a bit stressed about things, nor am I an a*shole; the reality is that there are times when I am unable to interact with people in any way, unable to leave my house, unable to answer my phone, unable to contact my GP or support services for help, unable to cook, eat, get dressed and function in any normal way. This is because my anxiety causes me to feel so useless, guilty, hypochondriacal (if that is a word), fearful of other people's reactions and fearful of being unable to cope in the outside world. If this makes me an a*shole, then I guess there are a number of qualified and experienced doctors and psychiatrists who must have got it wrong.

Despite my long term mental health problems, possibly as a result of difficult childhood experiences, I am a graduate, have served with the British Army, am a Parish Councillor and an active member of a Mountain Rescue team (when not in crisis). I have only recently made the decision to "come out" about my illness and diagnosis and have been extremely surprised and pleased about the amount of support and understanding I have been given.

It saddens me that there are people out there who will always label people like myself as nutters, loonies or a*sholes because of a diagnosis, and who base their judgements on hearsay and ignorance, showing a disrespect for valid debate and proven medical research.

I would also like to point out that it was actually a huge relief to be given a diagnosis - whilst it isn't easy to be told that you have a disordered personality, to be given an accepted diagnosis has helped me understand why I react the way I do and to identify when certain behaviours are not "normal", which has been a huge step forward in making a recovery. For people to think that my instinctively anxious reactions to situations is something I have control over, is like telling a diabetic that they wouldn't be diabetic if they stopped eating sugar.

With regard to the diagnostic criteria, what people need to bear in mind is that, for a PD to be diagnosed, these behaviours have to be so deeply ingrained that the person might not actually realise that they are not "normal" and that the behaviours have a massively disruptive effect on the ability to live a "normal" lifestyle. Often people develop what are seen to be strange or eccentric behaviours which they do not realise are coping mechanisms; a way of minimising the detrimental effects of their PD, eg in my case, avoiding all human contact in order to reduce the physical effects of anxiety (nausea, vomiting, migraine, stammering, shyness, awkwardness, panic, phobia). Imagine yourself doing a major exam and magnify that feeling of tension, fear and anxiety tenfold and you might get some idea of what I live with on a day to day basis.

I'm not seeking sympathy, I merely want to try to educate people who are lucky enough never to have to go through this as to what it is like and what effect it has on people trying to just get on with life. I trust any response to this will be gentle as one of the main characteristics of my PD is hypersensitivity to criticism!

[VoodooJoe]

Whitevanwoman, please read my above posts carefully.

Here are my points:

1. personality disorder is not a mental illness, it is a description of undesirable behaviour.

2. mental illness, of any kind, cannot be deemed a personality disorder as it is not a pattern of behaviour any more than cancer or diabetes is a pattern behaviour.

3. I unapologetically standby my initial post, its not my personal opinion, just a mere observation, i.e people who display undesirable personality traits generally get called a*sholes.

[ForAllOfThis]

Your right its not an illness.

However how much control do we actually have over our personality? According to most psychological theories, very little. Very few of the theories include the concept of free will. We are simply a product of past experiences, enviromental teachings and our inital biology.

Voodoo I am intrigued how you define a serious abnormality because its no technique that I have came across.


1. personality disorder is not a mental illness, it is a description of undesirable behaviour.

Every mental illness is diagnosed on behaviour. You forget that currently there is no way of measuring what people are actually thinking and if they are having hallucinations or not. So the next best thing is done, measuring their behaviour. Therefore, according to you every mental illness could be a description of undesirable behaviour.

[VoodooJoe]

However how much control do we actually have over our personality? ..

Good question.


According to most psychological theories, very little. Very few of the theories include the concept of free will. We are simply a product of past experiences, enviromental teachings and our inital biology. ..

Do flaws in our personalities excuse our behaviour? i might have the urge to rape kids and mug grannies, it doesnt mean i have no control over wether i should act on it or not.


Voodoo I am intrigued how you define a serious abnormality because its no technique that I have came across..

I wouldnt diagnose a serious abnormality in behaviour, neither should a psychologist IMHO, abnormal behaviour does not necessarily equal mental illness (i think we have had this conversation on another thread.), how people should behave and what is acceptable in society is a question of morality and ethics not clinical psychology.


Every mental illness is diagnosed on behaviour..

This is where i would disagree, not all mental illnesses are, most would be diagnosed by talking to the patient, sometimes even physiological tests are run.



So the next best thing is done, measuring their behaviour. Therefore, according to you every mental illness could be a description of undesirable behaviour.

Not really, no, though i dare say most mental illnesses could potentially lead to undesirable behaviour on some level.

[Cuddles]

i might have the urge to rape kids and mug grannies, it doesnt mean i have no control over wether i should act on it or not.

Or does it?


This is where i would disagree, not all mental illnesses are, most would be diagnosed by talking to the patient, sometimes even physiological tests are run.

That is behaviour.

[VoodooJoe]

Or does it?.

Yes it does, you can want to do something, but know it is wrong and choose not to do it.


That is behaviour.

How so? ???

When i said physiological i meant things like blood tests, MRI scans and EEGs, which are run to check for things like epilepsy, hypoglyceamia, CJD, alzheimers etc etc there are a multiude of mental illnesses that have an organic root.

Also I dont really see how interviewing someone on how they think and feel is akin to making a diagnosis on observed behaviour.

[Electric Angel]

In my opinion, few psychiatric diagnoses are valid.

I find that psychiatric diagnoses made through the Western world's DSM or ICD are incredibly reductionist, and confine human experience and behaviour (however atypical it may appear) to a dispositional pathology that needs to be treated. I think that this can best be explained by the assumption of Western psychiatry that such "abnormal behaviour" is due to (faulty) biological processes.

However, having said that the DSM does make a distinction between Axis I diagnoses (e.g. depression, anxiety) and these personality disorders part of Axis II because these personality disorders are deemed to be more persistent. Whilst certainly the complaints ("symptoms") certainly exist, the clustering of these symptoms together to form neat labels does not necessarily create a valid diagnosis, even if it may be a reliable diagnosis. If I had more time I would quote some studies, but just as a case in point there are high comorbidity rates between "schizophrenia" and cluster A personality disorders (e.g. "schizotypal" and "schizoid"); and mood disorders and cluster B diagnoses (e.g. "borderline").