What ever happened with this trial?

[Admin]

I commented on another highly rigorous Bristol homeopathy hospital study that was announced in May: http://www.ukskeptics.com/commentary_display.php?d=05-06#asthma_homeopathy

I can't remember seeing any 'homeopathy works' headlines! ???

It was supposed to have concluded in September (I think).

Any news on it?

[Blue Wode]

Its anticipated end date is now 30th November 2006.

This is the relevant link (scroll down for the details):
http://www.controlled-trials.com/isrctn/pf/61654746

So it looks like we can expect the media hype in the New Year.

[Zendal Darkman]

Could it be possible that other trials have taken place (in the UK) and we are not aware of as the results have remained unpublished? I was speaking to a colleague and she was of the opinin taht the only condition that needs to be fulfilled is the granting of ethical approval, there is no requirement to publish at the end of the trial. I can well imagine homeopathic institutions "sitting on results" under the justification of some flaw in the trial.

Is there any way we can get find out if studies have been undertaken?

[Cuddles]

I wouldn't have thought so. The biggest problem with the scientific process is that negative results are rarely published. Since this is true with real science I can't imagine sCAM proponents are going to have sudden attacks of honesty and start publishing their negative results.

[Zendal Darkman]

I wouldn't have thought so. The biggest problem with the scientific process is that negative results are rarely published. Since this is true with real science I can't imagine sCAM proponents are going to have sudden attacks of honesty and start publishing their negative results.

A different colleague of mine described the voluntary nature of publishing results as the biggest flaw in the scientific process.

If homeopathic trials have taken place and remain unpublished then it would be interesting and useful to do some investigation as to why. As I understand it the only registration of a trial which need to take place is getting ethical approval, and until recently that was done locally ( I now understand there is a national "database"). Are such lists publicly available?

[Cuddles]

There's this (http://www.nrr.nhs.uk/), but it specifically says
The National Research Register only contains descriptions of research projects and doesn't include research results or published articles. The Register merely collates and publishes information as submitted by the various data providers.However, all details of the trial are given, including contact information for the person running the trial.

This (http://www.refer.nhs.uk/ViewWebPage.asp?Page=Home) seems to be the equivalent site for results, but a quick search shows that none of the homeopathy trials listed as completed in the NRR have made it into the results database, so I assume it is not compulsory for results to be listed here.

The trial in the OP is this one (http://212.188.234.56/newgenNRR/ASP/logina.asp?product=NRR&username=_USERNAME_&group=3347&server=UpdateUK&authcode=10431779354048052&country=UK&guest=_GUEST_&searchfor=homeopathy). Interestingly, Dr E A Thompson is listed as running the trial and doesn't have a single entry in the results database.

Edit : The last link doesn't seem to work. If you search the NRR for "homeopathy" it is listed under "NRR Records from Research Centres: Single-Centre Projects" - "Ongoing projects".

[Mojo]

There's a Ben Goldacre column about this sort of thing here: http://www.badscience.net/?p=251

[Admin]

The handy thing with this is that I can write my commentary entry before the results are released.

Or is anyone in doubt of the outcome of this satisfaction survey clinical trial? ???

I guess it will be something to kick 2007 off with. ;D

[Admin]

:ponder:

Still no info on this trial. ???

I wonder if the results are in a file drawer somewhere. ;)

[Blue Wode]

Could this trial, which is listed in the ‘Projects’ section of the Homeopathy Research Institute’s website, be the one in question?


Project No 3: Trial of Homeopathy in the treatment of childhood asthma
Team: Clare Relton, Alex Tournier, Pattis Bayliss, Nagin Lad.
Status: In preparation

http://www.homeopathyresearchinstitute.org/Projects.htm (http://www.homeopathyresearchinstitute.org/Projects.htm)



For other homeopathic studies in the pipeline see the Institute’s current newsletter:
http://www.homeopathyresearchinstitute.org/material/Newsletter/HRI%20Newsletter%20Jan%202008.pdf (http://www.homeopathyresearchinstitute.org/material/Newsletter/HRI%20Newsletter%20Jan%202008.pdf)

[Mojo]

Doesn't look like it: Thompson doesn't seem to be involved in that one.

[Mojo]

I notice that the Descrition of the study here (http://www.controlled-trials.com/isrctn/pf/61654746) says:
Primary outcome measure(s)

As this is a pilot study there is no primary outcome measure. The research team are actively investigating whether subjective measures such as asthma control or asthma QOL or MYMOP or objective measures such as FEV1, antibiotic use will be most useful.
Does this mean that (if it ever gets published) we'll see the usual cherry-picking of anything that shows an apparently significant improvement as evidence that homoeopathy works?

I find it hard to believe that they couldn't find something apparently positive.

[Blue Wode]

I think I’ve found it this time.

If you go to the homeopathy section on page 9 of this February 2008 United Bristol Healthcare NHS Trust (UBHT) Clinical Audit Progress Report you’ll see a ‘Management and Treatment of Asthma’ trial is listed which has Elizabeth Thompson named as its lead:
http://www.ubht.nhs.uk/documents/ca_progress_report_Feb_2008.pdf (http://www.ubht.nhs.uk/documents/ca_progress_report_Feb_2008.pdf)

Its Project Status Code at February 2008 is ‘6’ which means that the report is being finalised. So it looks like we may get to see some homeopath cherry-picking after all.

[Admin]

So it looks like we may get to see some homeopath cherry-picking after all.

Oi, it might have worked. ;)

If they had gotten what they wanted, it would have made headlines by now. Well, back in 2006 to be more precise.

[Mojo]

Its Project Status Code at February 2008 is ‘6’ which means that the report is being finalised. So it looks like we may get to see some homeopath cherry-picking after all.
It seems to be a publicly funded study, carried out by a public body. If nothing gets published, perhaps a FoI application may be in order.

[Mojo]

I think I’ve found it this time.

If you go to the homeopathy section on page 9 of this February 2008 United Bristol Healthcare NHS Trust (UBHT) Clinical Audit Progress Report you’ll see a ‘Management and Treatment of Asthma’ trial is listed which has Elizabeth Thompson named as its lead:
http://www.ubht.nhs.uk/documents/ca_progress_report_Feb_2008.pdf (http://www.ubht.nhs.uk/documents/ca_progress_report_Feb_2008.pdf)

Its Project Status Code at February 2008 is ‘6’ which means that the report is being finalised. So it looks like we may get to see some homeopath cherry-picking after all.
That seems to have vanished now (as, so far as I can tell, has the original press release about the trial).

David Colquhoun has asked Dr. Thompson (http://www.dcscience.net/?p=1466) when the results of the trial will be made available. She doesn't seem to have been too happy about it:
In December 2008 I wrote to Dr Thompson, thus

In March 2006, a press release http://www.ubht.nhs.uk/press/view.asp?257 announced a randomised trial for homeopathic treatment of asthma in children.

This was reported also on the BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/4971050.stm

I’d be very grateful if you could let me know when results from this trial will become available

Yours sincerely

David Colquhoun
This innocent enquiry drew forth a rather vitriolic complaint from Dr Thompson to the Provost of UCL. In this case, the Provost came up trumps “I have looked at the email that you copied to me, and I must say that it seems an entirely proper and reasonable request. It is not clear to me why Professor Colquhoun should require some special authority to make such direct enquiries”. Dr Thompson seems to be very sensitive. We have yet to see the results of her trial in which I’m still interested.

[Blue Wode]

Very interesting. This link seems to give details about the trial:
http://www.controlled-trials.com/mrct/trial/509977/homeopathy

It also gives Dr Elizabeth Thompson's contact details. Would it be worth several people pressing her for the trial's results? We could then compare notes on any responses we get.

[Trinoc]

I think we can safely assume that if the results had been in any way positive then DC would not have received the rude response he did.

[Blue Wode]

I think we can safely assume that if the results had been in any way positive then DC would not have received the rude response he did.
That probably goes without saying. However, like David Colquhoun, I'm still interested in reading the results.

[Mojo]

Very interesting. This link seems to give details about the trial:
http://www.controlled-trials.com/mrct/trial/509977/homeopathy

It also gives Dr Elizabeth Thompson's contact details. Would it be worth several people pressing her for the trial's results? We could then compare notes on any responses we get.
As I mentioned on the last page, it appears to be a publicly funded study carried out by a public body. FoI application?

[Mojo]

Another year goes by...