Hollywood / Movies & the ghost experience

[Dr B]

Does anyone have any thoughts on how Hollywood and movies (as a socio-cultural influence) has impacted on the Ghost experience over time? Someone once told me that flying saucers were only seen after flash gordon (dont know if thats true) - but it is the case that things like orbs and alot of the so-called paranormal theories have come from films like Poltergeist.

The experience has certainly changed over time, and i have read lots of stuff on why, but very little on the specific role of Movies on being shaped by and then shaping, the conscious reports of the masses. :undecided:

[Mulder]

Another study coming up DrB?

[Admin]

Isn't this one of those "why do ghosts wear clothes?" type questions?

Apparently ghosts weren't seen as wearing clothes until after the early films were made depicting ghosts and they started dressing them in the costumes from the age they supposedly came from! Then ghost reports started arising where ghosts had such costumes on...

Someone wrote about this (Dr. Paul Lee?) but I don't have a link to the article.

There obviously is a large element of seeing what we expect to see and what we expect to see can be greatly influenced by cultural beliefs and influences.

When we 'see' something, what we perceive isn't necessarily what's actually there but is a constructed picture of what our brain thinks was there (a sort of best guess). So, if we come across an anomalous stimulus, like a random pattern in some trees at night, we can well end up seeing a 'ghost' because when the brain can't make immediate sense of something it will search through stored knowledge (cultural beliefs etc. stored in memory) to try to build up a picture of what's there; and if 'ghost' seems like a likely answer then a 'ghost' is what we will perceive.

So I can well imagine that when ideas are introduced through films etc., it will make it more likely that people will 'see' these things more often.

Interesting topic. O0

[Matt]

Does anyone have any thoughts on how Hollywood and movies (as a socio-cultural influence) has impacted on the Ghost experience over time? Someone once told me that flying saucers were only seen after flash gordon (dont know if thats true) - but it is the case that things like orbs and alot of the so-called paranormal theories have come from films like Poltergeist.

The experience has certainly changed over time, and i have read lots of stuff on why, but very little on the specific role of Movies on being shaped by and then shaping, the conscious reports of the masses. :undecided:

I don't know about ghost experiences - but apparently the belief that the moon landings were hoaxed only became prevalent after Capricorn One.

The obvious Ghost Movie is of course the Patrick Swayzee effort.

[bobdezon]

Does anyone have any thoughts on how Hollywood and movies (as a socio-cultural influence) has impacted on the Ghost experience over time? Someone once told me that flying saucers were only seen after flash gordon (dont know if thats true) - but it is the case that things like orbs and alot of the so-called paranormal theories have come from films like Poltergeist.

The experience has certainly changed over time, and i have read lots of stuff on why, but very little on the specific role of Movies on being shaped by and then shaping, the conscious reports of the masses. :undecided:



This is a pet hate of mine Jason. I have been tracing this exact same idea for an upcoming article. I can let you know now what my research has uncovered so far. It is far from complete and there are still gaps, but this only focuses on the public's perception of the paranormal, from the vantage point of a consumer/observer.

Scientists trying to beat the japanese in discovering a new revolutionary recording format, accidentally discover ghosts trapped in the building materials of the location they have their lab (stone tape theory). They all but abandon their research and use the equipment they have to record the ghosts. Then it all goes a bit wrong, and these ghostly victims are replaced by even older HP lovecraftian style "pre history" ghosts. The stone tapes 1972.

The general public gains an understanding of how parapsychologists work from the movie "poltergeist". The parapsychologists (lol) are portrayed as sympathetic believers who have had insane experiences of their own, and are thusly predisposed to believe the plight of the haunted family. The public see the vast arrays of equipment that these parapsychologists use, and are amazed that technology exists that professionals apparently use to detect and record ghosts. This is 1982.

In the movie Ghostbusters the public again see experts in the paranormal, rushing at high speed (to imply danger) to the aid of beleagured people (we just wanna help people, sound familiar??). Again scientists and parapsychologists wave magical equipment around, but this time everything is portable and hand held (implying the ease of consumer use) Proton packs, PK meters, ghost containment units, ghost storage facilities etc etc. This is 1984.

Orbs seem to stem from the first batches of consumer available digital cameras. People often wondered why orbs were present on the images, and when ghost hunters bought these gadgets (they will always be the first) they made the assumption that this new technology was somehow able to allow them to peer into the spirit world. This is from the early 1990s period.

BBC halloween special reports on an alleged poltergeist infestation in a residential house. Loosely based on the enfeild farce. Chirpy cheerful childrens TV presenters investigate the house, while a petulant and shoulder padded parapsychologist sits in the studio talking about how amazingly real this all is. Michael parkinson is portrayed as a no nonsense sceptical yorkshireman who doesnt believe a word of it. Suddenly all hell breaks loose, and people get possessed, weird phenomena happens, pictures fall from walls, strange wet patches appear. Tv presenters get sucked in cupboards (alright for some I suppose), a ghost that was partially eaten by cats, leapfrogs all over the house and ends up possessing the unbeliever parky. Quite silly because it turns out the Ghost got in the TVs of the nation and gained immeasurable power via the "mass seance". Ghostwatch 1992.

Ex blue peter presenter and samurai to the emperor of japan start hunting ghosts (theres a manga right there). Employ a medium to sex things up a bit, sex turns into debauchery of romanesque proportions. Lose credibility so employ a parapsychologist to explanify things wiv science. Most Haunted 2002


People buy affordable pipe lagging, so two plumbers having a slow business week look for ghosts. Ghost Hunters 2004

The list is far from complete but im sure you can see all the elements there to the publics understanding of how ghosts exist, operate and what they can, and cant do. We see recurrent themes even today based on the historical abuse of this subject.

[Trinoc]

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Doc, much as I like looking at your beautiful guitar, any chance you could shrink the avatar down to the usual postage stamp size? At the moment, every one of your posts occupies a whole screen by itself.

</off topic>

[Dr B]

its scheduled to be removed tomorrow.......I have a system and its part of an evil experiment.......:cheesy:;D;D;D

[Croydon Bob]

Someone once told me that flying saucers were only seen after flash gordon (dont know if thats true) - Technically true. Flash Gordon Comic from 1934, Film serials from 1936. First 'Flying Saucer' - 1947. No flying saucers in Flash Gordon, they flew fat rockets with fireworks sticking out the back. No obvious connection.

[Dr B]

i think it was more the concept of a visiting UFO - but its really not my area...


Bobdezon - great post will get back to you soon (Cheers O0)

[Trinoc]

its scheduled to be removed tomorrow.......I have a system and its part of an evil experiment.......:cheesy:;D;D;D
OK, no problem. I trust you will share your experimental results and conclusions with us ...

[Croydon Bob]

i think it was more the concept of a visiting UFO - but its really not my area... I think that the idea was culturally ingrained from the publication of War of the Worlds in 1898, not Flash Gordon specific. The basic idea that you (and Bob) are getting at here is very applicable to UFOs. The classic 'grey' alien was first described by Betty and Barnie Hill as the alien type that abducted them in 1961. Despite the high profile of this particular case nobody else was abducted by greys until Stephen Spielberg used the Hill's greys as the aliens in Close Encounters. Suddenly everyone was being abducted by greys and all the previous popular types (Nordics, little green men, etc) faded away. 'New' evidence appeared that Roswell in 1947 involved greys, etc, alien autopsy video, etc. In the 1990s UFOnuts started to get bored with the greys and now it is mainly shape changing reptiloids doing the abducting, Nordics are even making a small come-back. So the Hollywood influence on woo is certainly a subject worth looking into.

[bobdezon]

Actually, I have traced the public,s first concept of a "gray" to the cover of whitley striebers book cover. This is the first instance I can find of the visual concept of a "gray".

[Croydon Bob]

Actually, I have traced the public,s first concept of a &quot;gray&quot; to the cover of whitley striebers book cover. This is the first instance I can find of the visual concept of a &quot;gray&quot;. Communion wasn't published until 1987. There were many books about greys and with pictures of greys published in the early 1980s, including several about Roswell. Do you really think that there's much difference between the Strieber alien and Spielberg CE3K alien? Strieber jumped on a bandwagon he wasn't an originator.

[bobdezon]

Not saying he was the originator, it goes back way before that. I am merely saying that the image on striebers book was the first gray (as we widely recognise it today). I cannot find an earlier image of a gray as they are portrayed in the media (X-files etc)

The CE3K aliens were more like a bipedal sperm ;)

[Croydon Bob]

The UFO Incident - 1975 film of the "Betty & Barny Hill incident" staring James Earl Jones. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073834/ The only place I can find stills is here: http://www.ufocasebook.com/Hill2.html There are two pictures and James Earl Jones is clearly identifiable in the first one standing with two greys in 1975.

[bobdezon]

Yeah, there have been gray aliens in movies before. Not disputing that, its just the aliens dont look like the modern versions we are accustomed to in modern reports. Whitleys book is the first occurance of this type of spindly limbed, almond eyes large headed gray type.

[Trinoc]

Has anyone ever worked out how the Greys manage to stop their eyeballs colliding in their skulls, or how they have any space left over for their brains?

[Mulder]

Technically true. Flash Gordon Comic from 1934, Film serials from 1936. First 'Flying Saucer' - 1947. No flying saucers in Flash Gordon, they flew fat rockets with fireworks sticking out the back. No obvious connection.

Th term 'flying saucer' comes from the first really widely publicised UFO incident, Arnold's Cascade Mountains sighting in 1947. He said the objects were
'flying like a saucer would'. After that UFOs tended towards a saucer shape.

The 'grays' became the prevelant aliens witnessed after Whitley Streiber's popular 1987 book 'Communion'. Grays had already been 'seen' but there were many other 'competing' forms, regionally influenced (probably overlapping with folklore).

The concept of ghosts is, of course, much older. Tradition feeds media portrayals of ghosts that, in turn, feeds those actually witnessed.

Lots of this is documented in books by Hilary Evans. See also Magonia magazine.

[Croydon Bob]

Th term 'flying saucer' comes from the first really widely publicised UFO incident, Arnold's Cascade Mountains sighting in 1947. He said the objects were

'flying like a saucer would'. After that UFOs tended towards a saucer shape. Indeed yes. Even though Kenneth Arnold clearly stated and drew cresent shaped craft, that he claimed moved like skipping saucers, the media misinterpreted and then everyone started seeing what the media had said, flying saucers, rather than what Arnold had seen, flying cresents (or Geese).

[Croydon Bob]

See also Magonia magazine. Edited by Sir Sir John Rimmer who gave an excellent talk at Skeptics in the Pub on both UFOs and the Brentford Griffin hoax.

[Trinoc]

Indeed yes. Even though Kenneth Arnold clearly stated and drew cresent shaped craft, that he claimed moved like skipping saucers, the media misinterpreted and then everyone started seeing what the media had said, flying saucers, rather than what Arnold had seen, flying cresents (or Geese).
Hmmm ... shaped like a boomerang, according to some versions, and bobbing up and down like skipping saucers ... just like a bird alternately gliding and flapping its wings, in fact ...