The 'Mayan 2012' scenario

[Tony Williams]

On an SF board I visit occasionally, someone recently started a debate about 21 Dec 2012, the final year of the Mayan "long count" calendar which has been predicted to result in a catastrophic event. I made some of the obvious points and was then accused of not taking the issue seriously. So I did a little bit of research, and came up with the following:

The Mayans did not predict catastrophe at the end of the long count:
this was the invention of a recent New Age crank, José Argüelles, whose ideas have been dismissed by all serious Mayan scholars.

The other supporting evidence was supposed to be a complex calculation by another crank called McKenna (an advocate of "magic mushrooms" as the key to understanding), tying together significant dates to produce a pattern which could be used to predict future significant dates - one of which was 21 Dec 2012. But (thanks to Wiki again - it does have its uses) I was also able to show not only that no serious mathematician accepted his arguments, which were basically just numerology, but also that he fiddled his calculations to match up his critical date with the end of the Mayan Long Count, so it is not surprising that they are the same.

So what did I get for my efforts in engaging with their debate and enlightening them? A torrent of abuse and being accused of being a "bully". I did give a plug to Gilovich's book 'How We Know What Isn't So' but I doubt that he'll get many sales from it...

[Trinoc]

If SF stands for "Science Fiction", then surely the clue is in the name ... fiction! I thought scifi fans were supposed to be the sorts of people who enjoy this sort of writing, but don't have any problems with understanding it is not real. If a scifi forum has been taken over by New Age morons, it's time to find another forum.

[Tony Williams]

You are quite right: I can't be bothered with visiting that forum again.

Most SFF (Science Fiction & Fantasy) readers like me can enjoy reading all sorts of nonsense in fiction as long as it's entertaining, but have no difficulty in telling the difference between fact and fiction. There is a sub-group, however, who believe that The Truth is Out There, that alien abductions are commonplace, and that the world is ruled by mysterious forces, signs and portents. It isn't really the traditional hard SF which appeals to them, but the Wonderful World of Woo.

[skbuncks]

If I were them I would be far more concerned with the end of the world in 2010 as prophesized by the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.

On the slim chance that we escape eternal damnation on that occasion we still have to overcome our impending doom on 31st Decemebr 2011 if we, humanity, fail to rid ourselves of all evil, as prophesized by the angelic Solara Antara Amaa-ra, leader of the "11:11 Doorway Movement"

On the off chance we make it to 2012, which lets face it is a pretty long shot, we still have James T. Harmons rapture prediction, the blood curdling terrors that await us according to Jack Van Impe and the killer comet as predicted by the bible code bashing Michael Drosnin.

Not to fear though, salvation is on the way. Simply master the body bending silly breathing techniques of the Way of the Merkaba and ascend to the 4th Dimension before the world implodes under its burden on woo.

Finally for those few left who, having survived the various nefarious forces with designs on their souls but sadly lacking the flexibity to ascend, are still bound to this doom fated Earth let them tremble in fear at the arrival of Terrence McKennas killer asteroid/killer aliens/killer supernova/killer supermaga galactic radiation/killer hyperspacial breakthrough/Killer end of the Mayan calender type stuff.

Tremble in fear fellow forumites for the end is nigh

skb

[Trinoc]

Tremble in fear fellow forumites for the end is nigh
Sheesh! And there I was worrying my poor little head over trivia like melting ice caps, energy shortages, collapse of food supplies and the meltdown of global capitalism!

[skbuncks]

Sheesh! And there I was worrying my poor little head over trivia like melting ice caps, energy shortages, collapse of food supplies and the meltdown of global capitalism!


Nah, thats mere piffle in comparison to marauding aliens, fire and brimestone and rivers of blood.

skb

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

A lot of Mayan idiots do seem to be jumping on the solar cycle bandwagon now. There is due to be a peak round about 2011/2012 I believe. It's possible bad things could happen due to that, but then again they might not.

[Dubious Dick]

It worries me that because there are so many end of World and super disaster predictions, that if we do get a major catastrophic event roughly correlating with one of these predictions, will we see some Worldwide coalescence of loonies into one overwhelming woo movement?

Presumably most of them would post-rationalise that any major event was close enough (+/- a couple of years). So far there seems to be such a plethora of different groups and beliefs that they are weakened by fragmentation, but if they did start to gather around someone like Icke in greater numbers, will we have to take up arms?

[Dubious Dick]

P.S. I've heard some of the New World Order/Zeithesit types saying that the banking crisis is proof of their theories. I keep trying to get across to them that if the system was so well controlled presumably the illuminati would not have let it all happen. Post rationalisation again though. They seem to be able to fit jigsaw pieces together by bashing them in regardless of the shapes.

[Croydon Bob]

Most SFF (Science Fiction & Fantasy) readers like me can enjoy reading all sorts of nonsense in fiction as long as it's entertaining, but have no difficulty in telling the difference between fact and fiction. There is a sub-group, however, who believe that The Truth is Out There, that alien abductions are commonplace, and that the world is ruled by mysterious forces, signs and portents. It isn't really the traditional hard SF which appeals to them, but the Wonderful World of Woo. In my experience 99% of SF fans have a clear understanding of the difference between fact and fiction, and are sceptical about UFOs, ghosts, etc. The first Skeptics in the Pub meeting was, basically, an offshoot of the London SF pub meetings. The loonies are probably into Star Trek and/or Anne McCaffrey, I don't hang out with those people.

[Tony Williams]

The loonies are probably into Star Trek and/or Anne McCaffrey, I don't hang out with those people.
Actually, I think that the X-Files are more their thing. They probably think they're drama-documentaries.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

I used to think Father Ted was a documentary. In fact I probably still do ;)

[Dubious Dick]

What's that old joke about wiping out clingons?

[Trinoc]

What's that old joke about wiping out clingons?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCARADb9asE

[skbuncks]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCARADb9asE

Thankyou for that Trinoc. My ears are now bleeding.

Out of curiosity is this you at 0.56 sec

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/SKBUNCKS/SGU/klingon.jpg

skb runs and ducks for cover :eek3:

[Trinoc]

Thankyou for that Trinoc. My ears are now bleeding.

Out of curiosity is this you at 0.56 sec

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/SKBUNCKS/SGU/klingon.jpg

skb runs and ducks for cover :eek3:
Three eyes, dammit!

[Tim the Mage]

I used to think Father Ted was a documentary. In fact I probably still do ;)

You mean it's not?

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

You mean it's not?

I think its more of an adaptation - a dramatisation based on real life events.

[skbuncks]

Three eyes, dammit!

Yeah, sorry bout that. I realized on my way home from work but it was to late to edit (I also try to avoid surfing the net while driving). Still nevermind, I withdraw my rather weak comparison


skb

[fuzzylogic]

If I were them I would be far more concerned with the end of the world in 2010 as prophesized by the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.

On the slim chance that we escape eternal damnation on that occasion we still have to overcome our impending doom on 31st Decemebr 2011 if we, humanity, fail to rid ourselves of all evil, as prophesized by the angelic Solara Antara Amaa-ra, leader of the "11:11 Doorway Movement"

On the off chance we make it to 2012, which lets face it is a pretty long shot, we still have James T. Harmons rapture prediction, the blood curdling terrors that await us according to Jack Van Impe and the killer comet as predicted by the bible code bashing Michael Drosnin.

Not to fear though, salvation is on the way. Simply master the body bending silly breathing techniques of the Way of the Merkaba and ascend to the 4th Dimension before the world implodes under its burden on woo.

Finally for those few left who, having survived the various nefarious forces with designs on their souls but sadly lacking the flexibity to ascend, are still bound to this doom fated Earth let them tremble in fear at the arrival of Terrence McKennas killer asteroid/killer aliens/killer supernova/killer supermaga galactic radiation/killer hyperspacial breakthrough/Killer end of the Mayan calender type stuff.

Tremble in fear fellow forumites for the end is nigh

skb

Hi everyone.

I ran across this topic a little while back when I was doing research for an end-of-the-world site I was working on. The site is now up, and I figure it may be of some interest to people on this thread.

It counts down the days until the next prophecy for the end of the world... and then the next, and then the next and so on. You can check it out at
countdown.rchma.com

If you go to "All Predictions" you can see all the ones I have currently (sadly, I could only use ones that have hard dates, which many don't) and some of the stuff from the post above were good pointers and made it into the predictions in one way or another.

So I wanted to say thanks for that and be well everybody.

[Mongrel]

Nice one Fuzzy :smiley:

Linkie -> http://countdown.rchma.com/

[polomint38]

Hi everyone.

I ran across this topic a little while back when I was doing research for an end-of-the-world site I was working on. The site is now up, and I figure it may be of some interest to people on this thread.

It counts down the days until the next prophecy for the end of the world... and then the next, and then the next and so on. You can check it out at
countdown.rchma.com

If you go to "All Predictions" you can see all the ones I have currently (sadly, I could only use ones that have hard dates, which many don't) and some of the stuff from the post above were good pointers and made it into the predictions in one way or another.

So I wanted to say thanks for that and be well everybody.


I enjoyed the site, Cheers Mate O0

[skbuncks]

Hi everyone.

I ran across this topic a little while back when I was doing research for an end-of-the-world site I was working on. The site is now up, and I figure it may be of some interest to people on this thread.

It counts down the days until the next prophecy for the end of the world... and then the next, and then the next and so on. You can check it out at
countdown.rchma.com

If you go to "All Predictions" you can see all the ones I have currently (sadly, I could only use ones that have hard dates, which many don't) and some of the stuff from the post above were good pointers and made it into the predictions in one way or another.

So I wanted to say thanks for that and be well everybody.

Hi Fuzzy, like the siteO0 and the countdown

You may find more EotW predictions on one of these sites:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/9941/index.html

http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/1.htm

http://www.abhota.info/end2.htm

skb

ETA: Welcome to UKS :smiley:

[tolman]

Did the Mayans even manage to predict their own civilisation collapsing?