Open minds

[Tony Williams]

One thing I find most irritating about believers in astrology, the paranormal etc is that they accuse sceptics like me of having "closed minds".

I keep pointing out that I have a completely open mind - I'm very willing to change my views if there is good reason for me to do so, in the form of convincing evidence. They are the ones with closed minds because they continue to believe in their daft ideas regardless of the volume and quality of contrary evidence presented to them. They never seem to get the point, though.

Neither do they ever grasp the simple principle "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs". There seems to be some kind of mental disconnect or something...

[Mulder]

The 'open minds' argument is just one weapon in the armoury of belief - there are so many others.

My favourite is, when faced with overwhelming evidence against something, like astrology, a believer will pick up on some tiny inconsistency in your argument that has no material effect on its result. The idea is, if you have got one irrelevant detail wrong, the entire argument must be wrong also. Clever stuff, eh?

[Matt]

My favourite is, when faced with overwhelming evidence against something, like astrology, a believer will pick up on some tiny inconsistency in your argument that has no material effect on its result. The idea is, if you have got one irrelevant detail wrong, the entire argument must be wrong also. Clever stuff, eh?

It gets even better when the minute detail they pick on is actually correct but somehow beyond their comprehension. They say "I don't understand how ..." as if they is a fault in your exposition rather than their grasp on the subject matter.

[Trinoc]

Everyone should print out a copy of this (http://www.theskepticsguide.org/logicalfallacies.asp) and carry it around, ticking off the fallacies as they are heard. I think the one Mulder describes is #19: "Tu Quoque".

[Mongrel]

Everyone should print out a copy of this (http://www.theskepticsguide.org/logicalfallacies.asp) and carry it around, ticking off the fallacies as they are heard. I think the one Mulder describes is #19: "Tu Quoque".

Whilst not practical to carry around the Doggerel (http://rockstarramblings.blogspot.com/2006/05/doggerel-index-suggestions.html) posts over at "The Bronze Blog" are well worth a perusal :smiley:

[Mojo]

Everyone should print out a copy of this (http://www.theskepticsguide.org/logicalfallacies.asp) and carry it around, ticking off the fallacies as they are heard.
Maybe we should have had Bingo cards printed up for Monday.

[brodski]

Maybe we should have had Bingo cards printed up for Monday.

well, a few of us did shout "house" when we saw the moustrap slide ;)

[Trinoc]

well, a few of us did shout "house" when we saw the moustrap slide ;)
Ah ... I was wondering what that was about ...

[Mojo]

I'd forgotten about the mousetrap slide.

[vbloke]

this thread (http://www.ukskeptics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2752) can also be of use...

[Amaris]

One thing I find most irritating about believers in astrology, the paranormal etc is that they accuse sceptics like me of having "closed minds".

I keep pointing out that I have a completely open mind - I'm very willing to change my views if there is good reason for me to do so, in the form of convincing evidence. They are the ones with closed minds because they continue to believe in their daft ideas regardless of the volume and quality of contrary evidence presented to them. They never seem to get the point, though.

Neither do they ever grasp the simple principle "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs". There seems to be some kind of mental disconnect or something...

Couldn't agree more, I've had a similar problem over at a site aimed to rubbish Bad Psychics called very imaginatively Not Bad Psychics :smiley: Anyway I got so fed up with the lack of reasoning from these believers, they didn't seem to be able to take in that I'm open minded and would love proof of what they believe in but I'm afraid it turned into a bit of a slanging match as I've often found these kinds of "discussions" do, so I left it. Talk about banging your head against a brick wall ::)