Renewable Energy Sources

[Hazen]

Now that nuclear power is back on the agenda, I'm wondering what, if anything, folks are doing/would be prepared to do, to address this issue.

Are you conscious of your energy budget in any way?

I've been gnashing my teeth over various people's complaints about wind farms and tidal generator installations 'spoiling their views'.
What, perhaps they think a few more fast breeder fission reactors would look better?

[Mongrel]

My opinion is that Nuclear power has been demonised for far too long based on a few serious incidents in old and poorly maintained reactors (Long Island, Chernobyl) some dodgy B movies and a lot of scare stories in the press.

The new 3rd and newer 4th generation reactors provide higher automated safety procedures, much lower waste output (which can be easily reprocessed as fuel for the reactor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_breeder_reactor)). Nuclear power won't uglify the landscape like wind power and this is the UK, solar power wouldn't cut it as a long term solution and wave power - I've not really kept up with that so I'll just go with a standard line of "It's probaly OK as a supplemental source but not anything to base an indutry off of"

Here's a piece from one of the co-founders of Greenpeace that I stumbled upon - Link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/14/AR2006041401209.html)
Physics Today had a piece in Febuary regarding the future of Nuclear reactors, it's looking good (http://www.physicstoday.org/vol-59/iss-2/p19.html)
and many people don't know that Coal fired power stations pump out more radioactive material than a Nuclear reactor - Source (http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/rev26-34/text/colmain.html)

My main concern is who builds them, who regulates them, who monitors them and who are they responsible to. Last thing that I'd want to see is something slapped together by WS Atkins with computers by EDS and regulated & monitored by the energy ministers golfing chum. :P

[Hazen]

Nuclear power won't uglify the landscape like wind power
I have to disagree with you there. I would much rather see this:
http://www.bsh.de/de/Meeresnutzung/Wirtschaft/Windparks/Windpark03.jpg
(I think they look rather elegant)
than this:
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/pics28/sellafield.jpg
which is hideous.
wave power - I've not really kept up with that so I'll just go with a standard line of "It's probably OK as a supplemental source but not anything to base an industry off of"
Have a look here:
http://www.marineturbines.com/home.htm
These projects also get complaints, but mostly just from the local fishermen, when I was down that way last, they couldn't be seen from the shore.
There is no reason why this type of generation can't provide a significant chunk of the grid supply - it's regular as clockwork.
many people don't know that Coal fired power stations pump out more radioactive material than a Nuclear reactor
This I did not know but then I'm certainly not keen on them either. Just south of Oxford is Didcot power station:
http://www.adventureballoons.co.uk/images/photos/large-07.jpg
which is also butt ugly.
A question which I've not managed to get an answer to, is why bother with cooling towers? They are massively ugly and obtrusive on the landscape and you're pumping perfectly good useable energy wastefully into the atmosphere.
In Sweden, Germany, Netherlands and other countries, most power plants were designed from the start to have their coolant fed into secondary heat exchangers which is either turned into more electricity, or just provides hot water for the locals.
I am not keen on nuclear but resigned to it as most people just don't give a stuff and will carry on as before or worse.

My main concern is who builds them, who regulates them, who monitors them and who are they responsible to. Last thing that I'd want to see is something slapped together by WS Atkins with computers by EDS and regulated & monitored by the energy ministers golfing chum.
Agreed.

[median]

I think the issue of renewable energy vs other sources of energy is an interesting one.

The issue of whether a particular item of plant is aesthetically pleasing is a minor point and could be addressed at a later stage.
The real issue is in terms of energy input vs energy output in terms of environmental costs and running costs.
All areas need to be addressed I feel nuclear fission, solar power etc. In most cases there are both benefits and costs associated.

[Hazen]

According to the Greenpeace website:

'Existing British nuclear power stations will leave a legacy of half a million tonnes of nuclear waste that the government has no idea how to dispose of safely'.
and
'The decommissioning and clean up costs for the UK's existing nuclear industry have been estimated at £56bn - £70bn, with a further £20bn - £30bn needed for long-term management of the waste we currently have.'

The full article here (http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/contentlookup.cfm?CFID=3941073&CFTOKEN=58750037&SitekeyParam=D-E)

Possible sites earmarked for waste dumps here (http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/contentlookup.cfm?CFID=4106259&CFTOKEN=57043209&UCIDParam=20060328094751&CFID=4991334&CFTOKEN=88815724)

[Ginger Rogers]

I work next door to Vestas Blades which make the wind turbine blades.

They (not vestas, but whoever 'they' are) want to put up wind turbines in a small village on the island, personally I am not particularly against it as they dont' make much noise (do they??) and don't think they're particularly ugly either. At least its clean, green power!

Nuclear power frightens me quite frankly, people don't know how to handle such power. and accidents do happen.

[doubting thomas]

I agree with all the various arguments in this topic so far, but from what I've heard and read up to now it appears we don't have much choice but to go down the nuclear route because the different green solutions do not provide enough energy for our 21st century needs.

I think all the different types of energy generators will have to live together for the time being until we can reduce our consumption or greatly increase the output of current or new methods of green generation.

[Hazen]

The issue of whether a particular item of plant is aesthetically pleasing is a minor point and could be addressed at a later stage.
In terms of the power demand/generation problem, it is a minor point. In terms of what we are doing to our countryside, it is a seriously major point. It cannot be addressed at a later stage - government projects generally follow the same rule: knock it up as quickly and cheaply as possible, which is what we have now and what we are set to get more of in the near future.

they dont' make much noise (do they??)
Having stood in this field:
http://www.oursouthwest.com/SWImages/AltCornwall/0117.jpg
at 1:00 a.m. in a 10 - 15 mph breeze with all the turbines running, yes they do make some noise but the traffic noise from the A30 was significantly louder. A small price to pay, I say.

accidents do happen
Oh yes.

the different green solutions do not provide enough energy for our 21st century needs.
No they do not. This is primarily due to the fact that average power consumption per household/business is increasing exponentially:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5142558.stm
hence my question in the OP, what are you doing/prepared to do about it?

Another point:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/5139778.stm
The SAS (surfers against sewage) were instrumental in pushing the clean-up of many of Britain's beaches on the ecological/environmental ticket but faced with the above, it turns out they only give a crap about their surfing.

Coming back to 'uglying up the landscape' (grrrr), it seems that a truckload of our (taxpayers) money is just fine to be wasted on this useless monstrosity:
http://www.ukswebsite.co.uk/photos/newcastleangel%20of%20the%20north.jpg
which is fine because it's 'art', yet serves no purpose whatsoever and yet...
You get the picture.

[John Jackson]

Ah, the Angel of the North. I drive past it frequently.

It just looks like a big, rusty figure with a pair of aircraft wings. :-X

I agree. A complete and utter waste of money. It serves no discernable purpose.

[seren]

The "it's my tax" line always makes me laugh. Of all the unethical, pointless, harmful or just plain dodgy things our tax goes on, the Angel of the North ranks pretty low. It cost us £800,000. Divided by a population of 59 million, that's 1p each*. In Daily Mail terms, it's about the cost of employing for life one nurse (40 year career at £20,000pa), if you discount the cost of educating and training them in the first place.



[*edited to correct my terrible maths- that's right isn't it?]

[Hazen]

Of all the unethical, pointless, harmful or just plain dodgy things our tax goes on, the Angel of the North ranks pretty low.

True, but £800, 000 on a piece of sculpture is still pretty outrageous.

Divided by a population of 59 million, that's 1p each

There aren't 59 million tax payers in this country.

[seren]

Awooga awooga! Pedant alert! ;D

I'd cuff you round the head if I were your maiden aunt.

[Hazen]

Sorry, Auntie

[median]

Angel of the North?

£800,000? For a piece about a metre high!

I saw it on Sunday and....oh...ermm sorry...

I went to Legoland :D

[median]

Nature fights back ???

See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/5197846.stm

[Critical Ed]

Why is it always between wind and nuclear power?

There are other ways of generating power. I am sure that sticking one solar panel on every roof in the UK would do something to ease the energy budget.

[Dr B]

Indeed it would!!!

Also, what about bio-fuel? I am not sure how good this is - but i think there are some plants around the country at least looking into it (no chance of running out of that either ;D)

[Hazen]

I read a piece recently about a chemical plant being converted for processing sugar beet to produce ethanol/methanol, something of that sort. Apparently this is fairly nasty stuff and storage/transport could be a problem, although not, I think, an insurmountable one.

There are various biodiesel (http://www.biodieselfillingstations.co.uk/index.htm)schemes already running, but these are still fairly few and far between, also biomass fired power stations - A radio programme from a couple of years back told the story of how a fairly large scheme in the north, was scrapped before completion so that the remaining money [earmarked for the scheme] could be diverted to the nuclear programme.