Haunt: an example of legitimate research.

[John Jackson]

This is the opposite approach to normal for ghost research. Instead of looking for ghosts and and trying to gather information, this time the researchers are attempting to create ghosts or, more strictly, ghost-like or haunting experiences.

They are putting together an environment that includes many of the proposed natural mechanisms by which haunting experiences may be induced by.

The details and initial results are here:

http://www.haque.co.uk/haunt.php

[Tony P]

That's very interesting.

I'm sure that I read somewhere that infrasound had been debunked?

[John Jackson]

I think that it's not been determined whether infrasound has any effect.

A low frequency sound wave would not cause much effect other than resonance I don't think; however, who knows which organs in the body resonate at around 19Hz?

I think the eye has been postulated as reacting at or around this frequency, but that's about as much as I know on this issue.

Must look a little deeper. ;)

[Muse]

A wonderful experiment and long overdue.

I see that various phenomena were reported when the equipment was running as well as when it was turned off. Extremely interesting.
Showing that belief and/or expectation that an environment is haunted can also contribute to a participant's perceived experience.

[Dr B]

Hi Guys n girls

There are many ways to investigate haunt-type phenomena in a legitimate and objective way. Examples include assessing the role of, cognitive biases, context, neuronal instability, belief systems, prior-knowledge and suggestion, magnetic fields, perception of chance and random events, ambiguous stimuli, and so on....

However, I have to say i dont think there is any role for infrasound in strange experience, at least not directly. I know of no mechanism how such a weak form of energy could interact with neuronal processes and induce complex hallucination. Tandy suggested the eye - but this is untenable. The energy required would be large and even then only basic phosphenes would occur. If anyone here is interested I should have a paper coming out on this in the upcoming JSPR. ^-^

[John Jackson]

You missed off EMF meters and mediums there Dr B. ;) ;D

I know of no mechanism how such a weak form of energy could interact with neuronal processes and induce complex hallucination.  Tandy suggested the eye - but this is untenable.  The energy required would be large and even then only basic phosphenes would occur.

That's what I suspected. A frequency of 19Hz (or there abouts) cannot be modulated with much in the way of information so it could really only cause resonance. So even if the eyes do resonate at 19Hz there may be some disturbance to vision, but would that induce paranormal type experiences?

If anyone here is interested I should have a paper coming out on this in the upcoming JSPR. 

Absolutely. O0

Remember to tip us off when it's published. ;)

[Dr B]

Hiya John

I cant see how infrasound can actually 'do' anything to the brain directly. The energy in a 19Hz sound wave would have to be below say 50-60dB to remain inaudible and qualify as infrasound. Any more energy in the signal and it will become low-frequency sound - and thus not really 'true' infrasound.

The energy reported by Tandy etc is clearly not sufficient. Indeed, my upcoming critique of the whole infrasound thing shows that Tandy NEVER demonstrated any effects of infrasound in his papers either!!!!

I think it was a speculative account - but one which we can now look back on and say - is likely to be incorrect (at least in its current guise).

What people should be looking at is low-frequency magnetism.... O0

[Dr B]

My colleague Maurice Townsend has put together a website for the MADS system. You can check it out here.

http://www.apaw71.dsl.pipex.com/MADS/index.html

As always comments welcome. ;)

[vbloke]

I remember reading somewhere that low-frequency infraounds can also create hallucinations in the right environment.

ah, here it is: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4038891,00.html

[Dr B]

Actually - I find the infrasound stuff totally unconvincing :D (see above)

I have been heavily critical of this research and I have a new paper coming out soon in the JSPR.

One of the two papers arguing for infrasound - never actually measured any infrasound at all :o and also had a strong electromagnetic source in the environment (a faulty fan - I think you can see where I am going here). The second paper did do measurements - but only found a very weak source of infrasound - possibly coming from a transformer (again a strong source of electromagnetism). Also there is no plausible mechanism for infrasound interacting with the brain. For me, it just does not work.

The case for infrasound has yet to be empirically demonstrated ;)

The MADS is a different project based on documented laboratory and field-based research.

[Dr B]

We have measured some very exotic magnetic fields from a person moving about in a magnetic bed.(from a reputedly haunted bedroom)....the plan now is to 'play' these signals though a magnetic brain stimulator to see if they have physiological / psychological effects that do not occur from baseline signals.....

The interesting thing is, a while ago we suspected that movement in this bed would cause large distortions in the magentic fields and would be one source of variability in the fields. Now we have returned and tested it and it is indeed true!!!! Now we want to run tests with and without fields and with and without context (to test for interactions).

Isnt science great...... 8)

[John Jackson]

Will you be replaying the same signals that were recorded or the same type of signals?

And yes. Very interesting stuff. O0

[Dr B]

The exact same signals - though i have some minor concerns on the brain-stimulatory coils ability to reproduce them exactly...

However, some close correspondence would be acceptable... O0

[John Jackson]

Well it will be very interesting if those signals get some positive results in some people. Using the actual recorded signals will give more clout to the hypothesis.

Is 'clout' a scientific term? :ponder:

It is now. :D ;D

[Skepticus Rex]

Tandy suggested the eye - but this is untenable. The energy required would be large and even then only basic phosphenes would occur.


sorry to bring up an old part of the discussion.

complex hallucinations may not be possible to induce with resonance in the eye. but as you said basic phosphenes could (given enough energy). if you link that with the pattern finding features of the brain (ink blots and such), and the psychological state of people scared and wary, then maybe just basic phosphenes could be falsely recognised as a shape that someone associates with ghosts (eg, a person).
how does that sound?

[Dr B]

Indeed, and it is one well known explanation for fleeting corner of the eye stuff that many report O0 - but Tandy was trying to explain a sustained experience that existed for some time - so its untenable really.

Also, pattern-matching is not good in the peripheral visual field - which is why many people report monks / nuns / hooded figures (fleeting that is) as they are all the same basic type of nebulous shape misidentification....

As you also note "given enough energy" phosphenes could occur....problem is with infrasound the energy is weak by definition...so again the logic and mechanism, as an explanation for what Tandy reported - fails to work on all levels....

I have experienced phospenes and it is difficult to imagine people would report them as figures....but in the right context maybe so - however, as i said above - this would only ever work for fleeting images in the periphery - not sustained visual distortions.