Chinese medicine kills

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

Certainly looks like it in this case:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=543714&in_page_id=1770



Chines herbal medicine killed a young woman who used it to treat a stomach upset and skin rash, an inquest heard.


The remedy caused Ling Wang's liver and other organs to shut down.
The 25-year-old was taken to hospital but slipped into a coma and died. She was too ill to tell doctors which medicine she had taken, and experts found it hard to analyse. But after hearing evidence from three specialists, coroner Karen Graham concluded there could be no other reason for the death of Chinese-born Miss Wang, a Newcastle University PhD student.
.....

[Blue Wode]

Sad, but not exactly surprising since Traditional Chinese Medicine is far from safe. This from the Archives of Family Medicine in November 2000:

A comprehensive survey tried to establish the nature and frequency of adverse events of traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) in Australia. A total of 3,222 adverse events of acupuncture were reported by 1,100 providers of TCM during their practice lifetimes. These included 64 pneumothoraces and 80 cases with convulsions. The same group reported 860 adverse events of Chinese herbal medicines. These included 130 cases of severe gastrointestinal symptoms, 34 cases of jaundice, 29 cases of hepatotoxicity, 28 cases of renal toxicity and 19 fatalities.

http://archfami.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/9/10/1071 (http://archfami.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/9/10/1071)


More here:

People who take traditional Chinese mediicnes could be risking their health, the Committee on Safety of Medicines warned yesterday after findinng repeated evidence that some contain cancer-causing toxins and prohibited steroids.

The tough stance of the CSM, which advises the drug regulatory body, the medicines control agency, will dismay the rising numbers buying what they assume are harmless herbal remedies over the counter.

But in spite of previous warnings, the CSM says random tests continue to find banned substances, such as the herb aristolochia - used to treat rheumatism and skin conditions - which was associated with two cases of kidney failure in the UK in 1999 and which can also cause cancer.
Steroids have repeatedly been found in preparations for eczema and psoriasis which are often bought by people to avoid using steroidal creams prescribed by doctors.

Sometimes the quantity of illegal steroids in the Chinese medicines has been greater than that considered safe in licensed medicines, particularly for children. Mercury and arsenic compounds have also been found.

Alastair Breckenridge, CSM chairman, said: "There is clear evidence that standards used in the production of some traditional Chinese medicines on the UK market are, at best, unreliable.

Read on…

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/sep/28/medicalscience.highereducation (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/sep/28/medicalscience.highereducation)

And these were the conclusions of a recent systematic review which took a comprehensive look at herbal medicines:

Individualised herbal medicine, as practised in European medical herbalism, Chinese herbal medicine and Ayurvedic herbal medicine, has a very sparse evidence base and there is no convincing evidence that it is effective in any indication. Because of the high potential for adverse events and negative herb–herb and herb–drug interactions, this lack of evidence for effectiveness means that its use cannot be recommended.

A systematic review of randomised clinical trials of individualised herbal medicine in any indication, R Guo, P H Canter, E Ernst, Postgraduate Medical Journal 2007;83:633-637

http://pmj.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/83/984/633 (http://pmj.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/83/984/633)


It’s appalling that the relevant regulatory bodies don’t appear to be making this information known loud and clear to the general public.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

My wife went behind my back once to a Chinese practitioner. She got this totally foul 'tea' that you made by boiling a lot of odd looking bits of plants and barks.

I made her bin it as soon as I found out. It was absolutely stinking, I never forget that smell.

[SKIRRID5]

You "made her bin it", eh? Who was the other guy who "told" his missis she wasn't going to write and complain about the embryo bill as the sky-pilot had told her to. You fellas certainly have your wives well disciplined. How's it done?

[Mongrel]

You fellas certainly have your wives well disciplined. How's it done?

He probably forgot to tell us about the week sleeping on the sofa O0

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

He probably forgot to tell us about the week sleeping on the sofa O0

I think she was quite happy because she was almost making herself sick drinking it ..... :tongue:

Seriously though, I treated it in an educational way. I told her how it might be having an effect on her body but might not be the one she wanted, there was no evidence to support the claims made, and that it could potentially be dangerous to her. Took a bit of convincing, but in the end it went in the bin. O0

[darkwinter]

Worth noting also, of course, is the fact that Chinese medicine kills long before point-of-sale. Rhino and tiger are being hunted to extinction to fuel the demand for their carcasses in the Far East.

Just a little anti-anthropocentric side note.

http://sceptical-i.blogspot.com/2008/03/oversight-i-feel.html

[Blue Wode]

Worth noting also, of course, is the fact that Chinese medicine kills long before point-of-sale. Rhino and tiger are being hunted to extinction to fuel the demand for their carcasses in the Far East.

Just a little anti-anthropocentric side note.

http://sceptical-i.blogspot.com/2008/03/oversight-i-feel.html


Not only that, but it also causes horrendous suffering and death for thousands of Asiatic black bears. This from yesterday's Telegraph:





Bears rescued from 'hellish' Chinese bile farm

Bears that have suffered years of cruelty and ill-treatment on Chinese bile farms have been rescued.

The 28 Moon bears were in a pitiful condition when they were brought to a rescue centre in Chengdu, Sichuan Province.

Workers from the Animals Asia Foundation (AAF) tragically found one male bear dead when it arrived, its body still warm.

Another had to be put down and another died of its injuries within hours of arrival.

AAF founder and CEO, Jill Robinson who has worked for 10 years in Asia rescuing bears and trying to put an end to the farms, said she was shocked by the condition of the animals.

"All were in impossibly small cages, all skeletal, wounded in various ways, and terrified of what would happen in this next stage of their lives," she said.

"Some are blind, some have shattered teeth and grotesquely ulcerated gums, some have shocking necrotic wounds - their flesh literally rotting down to the bones - and all out of their minds with fear.

"Most had open wounds in their abdomens from the free-drip method of bile-extraction, with some leaking bile, blood and pus."

-snip-

Bear bile, like rhino horn and tiger parts, is highly prized for use in Chinese traditional medicines. A chinese rural farmer with an income of just over £1 per week can sell a kilo of bear bile for £150.

Although synthetic alternatives to the bile are now widely available the illicit trade continues to flourish condemning bears caught in traps in the wild to unimaginable horrors. Often the animals caught in steel traps lose paws and then injure themselves further because of the appalling and cramped conditions in tiny cages.

Asiatic black bears, known as Moon Bears because of the golden crescents on their chests, can end up spending up to 25 years in coffin-sized cages where they are 'milked' daily for their bile, often through crude and filthy catheters causing the animals intense pain.

The bears are also milked through permanently open holes in their abdomens in what is claimed to be a more humane free-dripping technique. It is the only permitted method of bile extraction in China, but still causes constant pain and the slow death of the bears.

-snip-

…the latest batch of tormented and disfigured bears provided further proof that the trade is as brutal as ever. Although the trade in bear products is illegal in China there is a flourishing black market.

The demand for bear bile is greatest in China, Japan and Korea but bear parts, bile powder and bile products are also found in Australia, Taiwan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, the US and Canada.

The bile is still used in traditional medicine for a range of complaints including fever, liver disease and sore eyes.

Two years ago, the EU launched a campaign to urge the Chinese government to end bear farming by 2008.

It is though there are more than 7,000 bears are still trapped in farms throughout China.

Full article here (warning – distressing photographs):
http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/04/03/eabears103.xml (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/04/03/eabears103.xml)



:-[

[Amaris]

It really is unbelievable that countries considered civilised and modern can still be under the delusion that these beautiful animals are here to be abused for no reason except their unfounded beliefs. I know someone will say it's their culture and they don't perhaps understand anything different to the things they've been taught and I do understand that, we are all brainwashed to some extent, but surely in this day & age and in a so called modern society how is this happening ....although having said that they still leave unwanted babies on the roadside.

[Amaris]

Bears rescued from 'hellish' Chinese bile farmThese kinds of cruelty just break my heart as does cruelty to children and to any living thing that is unable to defend themselves.

[Rat]

These kinds of cruelty just break my heart as does cruelty to children and to any living thing that is unable to defend themselves.
Cabbages?

[darkwinter]

Cabbages?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GgvwpxC7Uuw

Thank you for diverting this conversation to a point at which I may quote Messers Fry and Laurie.

"Never heard a lettuce scream before?"

That is all.

[Blue Wode]

More sad news about the Moon bears.

Almost half of the bears rescued recently from horrendous conditions on Chinese bile farms have died.

The Asiatic black bears - known as Moon bears because of the distinctive white crescent on their chest - had spent most of their lives locked in tiny cages being 'milked' of the bile used in traditional Chinese medicine.

They were brought to the Animals Asia rescue centre in Chengdu in the Sichuan Province founded 10 years ago by Briton Jill Robinson but many were past help.

"They all needed abdominal surgery and were grossly underweight at about 50 kilos when they should weigh 150 kilos. Some of these animals had been kept on the farms for 20 years and had no teeth or claws," said Robinson on a fund-raising tour of the UK.

"Ten of the bears died within 11 days and post-mortems showed most of them were suffering from liver cancer probably caused by the catheters inserted into their stomachs to drain the bile.

Read on…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=&xml=/earth/2008/06/18/eabears118.xml (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=&xml=/earth/2008/06/18/eabears118.xml)


However, there is a way to help:


The charity says it is making progress and has supporters in powerful positions in government. Animals Asia has won the right to accompany officials when they carry out farm inspections which allows them to expose some of the worst offenders.

-snip-

The charity which has 230 staff worldwide, needs about £50,000 per month to survive, the bulk of which comes from donations.
More information can be found at www.animalsasia.org (http://www.animalsasia.org/)

[British Sceptic]

Since chinese medicine kills why are so many chines medicine shops popping up all over the uk?

Im sure if I set up shop selling herbs and my customers died off two things would happen.

1. My customers would dwindle.
2. The police would be bursting through my door.

Why hasnt this happened to chines herbal medicine stores yet?

Also how do they get the rights from the local councils to set up shop in the first place if there is so much evidence that they are nought more than chinese terrorists insidiously inviting the good British people of this nation to kill themselves by their very own hands, ingesting toxic substances that they willingly pay well over the odds for?

Regards,

Den.

[Matt]

Since chinese medicine kills why are so many chines medicine shops popping up all over the uk?

Im sure if I set up shop selling herbs and my customers died off two things would happen.

1. My customers would dwindle.
2. The police would be bursting through my door.

Why hasnt this happened to chines herbal medicine stores yet?

Hi Den,

Did you read the rest of the thread.

It's because it's not usually the customers that are dying.

[Mulder]

As a nature lover, I dislike even walking near Chinese medicine shops!

[British Sceptic]

yes i read it,

the start of the thread quoted a woman dying, very likely due to chinese medicine.

Since I live close to newcastle I take that personally.

So are we now saying chinese medicine is not actually killing very many people and they would have died regardless, it was just happenstance they happened to be taking the herbals at the same time?

regards,

Den.

[Mongrel]

yes i read it,

the start of the thread quoted a woman dying, very likely due to chinese medicine.

Since I live close to newcastle I take that personally.

So are we now saying chinese medicine is not actually killing very many people and they would have died regardless, it was just happenstance they happened to be taking the herbals at the same time?

regards,

Den.

Broadly speaking most problems with Alt-med are caused by neglect, the sufferer isn' t being seen by a qualified medical practitioner.

The second biggest problem with TCM, and Ayurvedic, 'remedies' is that they're often adulterated with seemingly random dosages of drugs, steroids is a popular one for excema and asthma, or toxic metals. This can lead to overdosing either from a combination of the patient still taking their prescription medication, too powerful a drug for children and infants, and then there's just too damn much in the remedy. Metals run the risk of poisoning (does TCM have the 'aggravation' concept, that could be a nasty combo) and there's always a possibility of interactions between the remedies and prescription drugs, especially for chronic conditions.

The final problem is actual physical damage, it's rare but acupuncture can cause blood clots leading to embolism or if used too forcefully can puncture internal organs (Trick or Treatment has a couple of documented examples of puncturing the heart due to over zealous puncturing).


So yes, TCM can kill people and it's feckin' disgraceful. Unfortunately they have the ability to hide behind the lax regulation and dubious qualifications of the alt-med community :-[

[Admin]

the start of the thread quoted a woman dying, very likely due to chinese medicine.

Since I live close to newcastle I take that personally.

Why would you take it personally?


So are we now saying chinese medicine is not actually killing very many people and they would have died regardless, it was just happenstance they happened to be taking the herbals at the same time?

From a human perspective, the message is that this stuff is potentially dangerous yet there's no proven benefit from using it. People get suckered in by the 'natural therefore harmless' message that permeates the world of advertising and it's quite clear that this message is false.

I would think that the only reason more people do not die from taking Chinese Medicine is that like most other herbal remedies, they don't do anything. But the fact that some of them do contain physiologically active compounds is what renders them potentially lethal.

So what we're saying is that Chinese Medicine does kill people every now and then and that this risk is taken without there being any proven benefit. It comes to something when people with minor and probably self-limiting illnesses can end up dead because it's legal to sell this junk.

[Mongrel]

I would think that the only reason more people do not die from taking Chinese Medicine is that like most other herbal remedies, they don't do anything. But the fact that some of them do contain physiologically active compounds is what renders them potentially lethal.

A related problem is that, because of the poor regulation, there are no definitive numbers for the number of people harmed.

[Graham Lappin]

A significant potential problem with traditional Chinese medicine are interactions with conventional drugs. A number of herbal remedies contain substances that either induce or inhibit enzymes in the body responsible for metabolizing (and hence removing) drugs. The major group of enzymes are known as the cytochrome P450s - which are numbered according to a genetic classification. An example is CYP 3A4, which metabolizes a number of drugs. Inhibition of this enzyme can cause a build up of drug substance in the body to toxic levels.

Some foods can have similar effect for example grapefruit juice, but some herbal remedies are particularly potent. Although not a Chinese medicine, St John's Wort is notorious for interacting with certain drugs. Two links below give more information

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/herbdrug.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_John's_Wort

Just 'cos they are natural does not mean they are completely safe!

[Cuddles]

A related problem is that, because of the poor regulation, there are no definitive numbers for the number of people harmed.

A related, possibly even bigger, problem is that there is no actual definition of "traditional Chinese medicine". In fact, as Wollery often points out on the JREF forum, what we call traditional Chinese medicine usually has very little to do with Chinese medicine, traditional or otherwise. All it is is herbal medicine under a different name to try to give it some "wisdom of the ancients" type of credibility. As soon as you try identifying people harmed by it, proponents will just fall back to the standard "But that wasn't real TCM" arguement.

[furball]

I think everyones forgetting the tireless work deluded celebs like Gwyneth Paltrow and Madonna have done in making quack medicines such as TCM acceptable to the general public, I remember seeing a few years ago photographs of Paltrow with blister marks on her back these were made using a technique called "cupping" which was popular in the 18th Century this is done by blistering the back with hot glass cups I guess the idea was to purge the body of sins and maladies although infection and certain death would have been the more likely outcome!! but its ok for overpaid celebs like Madge and Gwynnie they can afford the best treatments western medicine can deliver when it all goes horribly wrong! I doubt TCM has any governing bodies you can report cases of malpractice or negligence to and would they respond to individual cases anyway? proberly not! I have also noticed the practioners of TCM usually have an appalling command of the English language how do consumers of these products know their symptoms are being diagnosed properly? I think new age/yoga and womens magazines are also to blame for the popularity TCMS

[Graham Lappin]

I think everyones forgetting the tireless work deluded celebs like Gwyneth Paltrow and Madonna have done in making quack medicines such as TCM acceptable to the general public, I remember seeing a few years ago photographs of Paltrow with blister marks on her back these were made using a technique called "cupping" which was popular in the 18th Century this is done by blistering the back with hot glass cups I guess the idea was to purge the body of sins and maladies although infection and certain death would have been the more likely outcome!! but its ok for overpaid celebs like Madge and Gwynnie they can afford the best treatments western medicine can deliver when it all goes horribly wrong! I doubt TCM has any governing bodies you can report cases of malpractice or negligence to and would they respond to individual cases anyway? proberly not! I have also noticed the practioners of TCM usually have an appalling command of the English language how do consumers of these products know their symptoms are being diagnosed properly? I think new age/yoga and womens magazines are also to blame for the popularity TCMS


Good point furball. The celeb culture does so often romanticise some selected aspects stolen from other cultures.

I remember a SGU pod-cast a little while ago where an interviewee (can't recall who) said that the ruling class in China used "western" medicine and left the traditional stuff to those that could not afford any better.

By the way, cupping was once recommended to me to "draw the damp from my bones". I recall saying that I thought cupping was something a prison tailor did when measuring an inside leg - but I guess that blew my cover. >:D

[Admin]

Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) seems to be a mixture of herbal remedies, acupuncture, and some folk remedies.

TCM was actually 'invented' in the 1950s as Chairman Mao's response to China's lack of real doctors. Most of its history, the history of acupuncture for example, is mythical.

Acupuncture using fine needles to balance Qi in the meridians etc. is also mostly a 20th century invention. Acupuncture before then was simply the insertion of a (not so fine before steel was used) needle at the point of pain/problem.

[Graham Lappin]

Acupuncture using fine needles to balance Qi in the meridians etc. is also mostly a 20th century invention. Acupuncture before then was simply the insertion of a (not so fine before steel was used) needle at the point of pain/problem.

That is very interesting and I did not know. Proves the point - come to the forum to learn. So when the acupuncturist quotes a "wisdom of thousands of years" it is in fact a double fallacy. Such a pedigree does not prove it works and it does not have such a pedigree anyway.

John - point me in the right direction. Any links to the history of acupuncture, I want to know more. O0

[Admin]

There's a very brief outline here: http://www.ukskeptics.com/acupuncture.php

Not in much depth as it's for the web and people don't read long articles.

I'll try to find the primary source although it could be a book.

[tolman]

So when the acupuncturist quotes a "wisdom of thousands of years" it is in fact a double fallacy.

Technically, everyone can claim to benefit from the wisdom of thousands of years (making fire, etc).
Presumably the ancient wisdom of not sticking sharp things in your eyes can be applied even to modern acupuncture?

[Graham Lappin]

There's a very brief outline here: http://www.ukskeptics.com/acupuncture.php

Not in much depth as it's for the web and people don't read long articles.

I'll try to find the primary source although it could be a book.

Thanks John for two things

1) for the link

2) for NOT saying read the bloody website - which you had every right to do ;D

It's the medical woo that interests me the most and so if there were any books you (or anyone else) could recommend I would be happy to hear them (I will check the book section on the site before anyone comes back on that one. And I have read Trick or Treatment).

[Graham Lappin]

Technically, everyone can claim to benefit from the wisdom of thousands of years (making fire, etc).
Presumably the ancient wisdom of not sticking sharp things in your eyes can be applied even to modern acupuncture?

... that's why I have gone blind 8) (No other suggestions required thank you) >:D

[furball]

[quote=Bunny;41501]Good point furball. The celeb culture does so often romanticise some selected aspects stolen from other cultures.

I remember a SGU pod-cast a little while ago where an interviewee (can't recall who) said that the ruling class in China used "western" medicine and left the traditional stuff to those that could not afford any better.

By the way, cupping was once recommended to me to "draw the damp from my bones". I recall saying that I thought cupping was something a prison tailor did when measuring an inside leg - but I guess that blew my cover. >:D[/quot

I doing my nursing training and met a chinese doctor who basically confirmed this most people in china do go for the TCM especially in rural areas as western medicine clinics are few and far between Im not sure as china has more contact with the cultures of the west that this will change much either having such a huge population. hey Bunny Ive been trawling my anatomy/physiology books I can't find anything on "dampness in the bones" obviously western sciences don't teach you nothing! please enlighten me! Im fascinated you can cure this with hot glass cups and a few blisters on your back! I see your "bang on trend" with Gwynnie here!>:D:tongue::-* Ive just worked out how to put the smilies on gone a bit overboard!

[Graham Lappin]

I can't find anything on "dampness in the bones" obviously western sciences don't teach you nothing! please enlighten me!

Bit of a long story - have a read of the blog: http://oryctolagus.wordpress.com/category/acupuncture/



I see your "bang on trend" with Gwynnie here!

Sorry, it's probably me that's being thick but I don't follow :confused:

[bindeweede]

After cupping. I do wonder why people do this.

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/3174/cupping2jpegkf1.jpg

[Graham Lappin]

After cupping. I do wonder why people do this.

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/3174/cupping2jpegkf1.jpg

Oh dear god! :tongue: (closest smiley I can find to one being sick)

[bindeweede]

What about this one?

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/8656/vomitsmiley015nl9.gif

[Graham Lappin]

What about this one?

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/8656/vomitsmiley015nl9.gif

Enough! I actually feel a little bit ill myself and so I'm off to my sick bed. Bye all :wavey: - be back later.
:sick:

[furball]

Sorry Im late replying back the site keeps saying im logged out when I post a reply Ive rewritten my post 3 times! now bunnys gone to bed to be sick and I just had to cuddle my kittens that pic was really quite disgusting! to think hollywood stars are idiotic enough to do this crap!
"bang on trend" is fashion scientology jargon for being very fashionable or in plain english being an unimaginative fashion drone! utter nonsense that makes women feel crap about themselves basically

[Pebble]

It's the medical woo that interests me the most and so if there were any books you (or anyone else) could recommend I would be happy to hear them (I will check the book section on the site before anyone comes back on that one. And I have read Trick or Treatment).

Haven't read complete thread, so may have been mentioned. Suckers by Rose Shapiro ISBN 978-1-846-55028-7, has a chapter on TCM, quite well referenced.

[Blue Wode]

Suckers by Rose Shapiro ISBN 978-1-846-55028-7, has a chapter on TCM, quite well referenced.
Here's some excerpts from that chapter (some of which I happen to have already on file):

Full of Eastern Promise, pp51-55:

Dr Paul Unschuld of the University of Munich is the leading Western authority on the history of Chinese medicine. He has said the origins of Traditional Chinese Medicine as we know it today actually lie in the very recent past, and TCM is a ‘misnomer for an artificial system of health care ideas and practices generated between 1950 and 1975 by committees in the People’s Republic of China’. Unschuld describes how, after the communist revolution, the vast and heterogeneous Chinese medical heritage was restructured to fit Marxist-Maoist principles. Crucially, TCM was needed to maintain social and political control in a country beset by poverty and with fewer than twenty thousand scientifically trained doctors, mostly practising in big cities, to serve a predominantly rural population of around six hundred million. Ancient practices were selectively cherry-picked, with many elements reinterpreted, in order to ‘build a future of meaningful coexistence of modern Western and traditional Chinese ideas and practices’. [13]

-snip-

Straightforward pragmatism would produce a consolidated medicine that could satisfy the nation’s health needs and it was Mao himself who enabled the modified version of the traditional medicine to be saved. Certainly, his own doctor, in a controversial 1995 biography, describes Mao as rejecting it when ill and saying ‘even though I believe we should promote Chinese medicine, I personally do not believe in it. I don’t take Chinese medicine’. [18]

Mao’s ideas took shape in the slogan ‘the scientification of Chinese medicine and popularisation of Western medicine’ which was to dominate Chinese medical policy in subsequent years. In post-revolutionary China The New Acupuncture by scientifically trained doctor Zhu Lian became the principal acupuncture manual and placed Maoist propaganda at acupuncture’s heart. [19] Though interest acupuncture had dwindled in the first half of the twentieth century, Zhu Lian believed that it had the right qualities, both practical and political, to serve the Chinese Communist Party. She completed the book in 1949 just as the Communists finally won the civil war and, as Kim Taylor demonstrated, uses military and administrative metaphors throughout. Shu Lian’s acupuncture diagrams show the body in divisions or parts rather than the integrated whole it had been represented as in the past. For the first time acupuncture points are arranged in divisions and straight lines. ‘Internal body parts are ascribed a bureaucratic role in the functioning unit of the body, with the heart ascribed the role of ruler, the lung that of ministers, and so on, in hierarchical order.’ The New Acupuncture is full of these administrative and political metaphors to the extent that ‘a direct image of the Chinese Communist Party has been superimposed on the body,’ says Taylor.

-snip-

The standardised new acupuncture developed in the 1950s was formally disseminated through the textbooks given to the ‘barefoot doctors’ and other students of TCM. Crucially, these were the acupuncture manuals that were translated into English and became the basis of the acupuncture taught and performed outside China, such as the Barefoot Doctors Manual published in America in 1977. [21]

13. Interview with Dr Paul Unschuld, Acupuncture Today, 2004
18. Zhisui Li, The Private Life of Chairman Mao: The inside story of the man who made modern China, Chatto and Windus, 1994
19. Shu Lian, 2nd edition of The New Acupuncture, People’s Medical Publishers, 1954
21. Barefoot Doctor’s Manual, English translation of the official Chinese paramedical textbook, Running Press, 1977


Full of Eastern Promise, p. 63:

Ear acupuncture was invented in the 1950s by a French doctor working in Lyons called Paul Nogier. The rather implausible story goes that Nogier encountered several people who claimed to have been cured of sciatica after having their ears cauterised by healers (known as guerissseurs) in Marseilles. This somehow led him to theorise that the ear was in some way correlated to every other part of the body. It is thought that the Chinese learned of Dr Nogier’s work and then developed their own auricular mappings. ‘This correspondence system was easy to teach “barefoot doctor” acupuncture technicians to readily assimilate into their paramedical practices,’ according to the American journal of Medical Acupuncture. [52] Dr George Ulett has noted that the vagus nerve, which is linked to all the major body organs, supplies the central sections of the ear, but this anatomical fact may be irrelevant since there is little research evidence for the efficacy of ear acupuncture anyway. [53]

52. Bryan I. Frank and Nader Soliman, ‘Shen Men: a critical assessment through advanced auricular therapy’, Medical Acupuncture Physicians’ Journal, 1998
53. George A. Ulett and SongPin Han, The Biology of Acupuncture, Warren H Green Inc, 2002



There’s also this article from the 1990’s:

…it has since come to light that much of the apparently objective and well-controlled research on TCM emanating from Chinese medical schools during the tumultuous era of the cultural revolution (1966-1976) was falsified at the behest of the hospitals' scientifically unqualified political commissars to ensure that the "research" would support the party line.

Traditional Medicine and Pseudoscience in China: A Report of the Second CSICOP Delegation (Part 1)
http://www.csicop.org/si/9607/china.html (http://www.csicop.org/si/9607/china.html)

[Julia]

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/3...ng2jpegkf1.jpg

Blimey - they look EXACTLY like the injuries I sustained during a battle with a giant octopus in the Bermuda Triangle! ;)

[bindeweede]

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/3...ng2jpegkf1.jpg

Blimey - they look EXACTLY like the injuries I sustained during a battle with a giant octopus in the Bermuda Triangle! ;)

Julia,

I'm afraid I can't get your link to work. However,
Cupping is another traditional Chinese remedy that will help you to relieve pain and it is used to generate good energies. Not forgetting that acupuncture
can help you with serious conditions like infertility and cancer. http://morevision.blogspot.com/2007/12/cupping-as-effective-acupuncture-method.html

[Blue Wode]

A move in the right direction:

'GPs warned over Chinese medicine'
http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk:80/story.asp?sectioncode=23&storycode=4120343&c=1 (http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk:80/story.asp?sectioncode=23&storycode=4120343&c=1)

It's especially interesting that the report mentions that “[TCM] neither derives from any coherent or established body of evidence nor is it subjected to rigorous assessment to establish its value” because it supports David Colquhoun’s recent criticism of the regulation of TCM here:
http://dcscience.net/?p=235 (http://dcscience.net/?p=235)

[Blue Wode]

Another worrying development:



Today, the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency, the MHRA, issued a warning (http://www.mhra.gov.uk/NewsCentre/Pressreleases/CON043905) against a Chinese Herbal product called ‘Jia Yi Jian’, and sold as ‘Herbal Viagra’, through high street Chinese Herbalists. Batches of this product had been seized and examined and they were found to contain exceedingly high levels of undeclared pharmaceutical ingredients. Despite being labelled as being only herbal in origin, the product had actually been adulterated with large quantities of real drugs that were licensed for treating erectile dysfunction and, strangely, obesity.


http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/04/fraud-in-chinese-medicine.html (http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/04/fraud-in-chinese-medicine.html)

[JJM]

There is another article here http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=514

[bindeweede]

One piece of good news, but sadly not for the people who have lost money.

http://dcscience.net/?p=1372

[Enquirer]

I'm new here so, rather frustratingly, can't post a link to another site. But I was wondering what people made of the systematic review and meta-analysis published in the BMJ on 7th February 2008 entitled "Effects of acupuncture on rates of pregnancy and live birth among women undergoing in vitro fertilisation: systematic review and meta-analysis".

This is a quote from the "clinical implications" section:
"The odds ratio of 1.65 suggests that acupuncture increased the odds of clinical pregnancy by 65% compared with the control groups. It is important to note, however, that the odds ratio significantly overestimates the rate ratio in this context, in which the event (pregnancy) is relatively frequent. In absolute terms, the number needed to treat was 10, suggesting that 10 patients would need to be treated with acupuncture to bring about one additional clinical pregnancy. These are clinically relevant benefits."

As an aside, I share the general horror at the mistreatment of animals expressed on this thread but lets not kid ourselves that modern medical science is any better than chinese medicine when it comes to this. The use of animals in medical research causes a huge amount of suffering.

[Pebble]

Enquirer,

As with any metanalysis it all depends on how one selects the trials for inclusion:

For example:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19276803?ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Curr Opin Obstet Gynecol. 2009 Mar 5. [Epub ahead of print]Links
The impact of acupuncture on assisted reproductive technology outcome.

El-Toukhy T, Khalaf Y.
Reproductive Medicine Unit, Guys and St. Thomas' Hospital NHS Foundation Trust, London, UK.
PURPOSE OF REVIEW: To evaluate the impact of acupuncture on the outcome of in-vitro fertilization treatment using data from published randomized studies. The main outcome measure of interest is the clinical pregnancy rate. RECENT FINDINGS: Fourteen relevant trials including 2870 women were examined. Significant clinical and statistical heterogeneity were encountered among the studies. Five trials (n = 877) evaluated in-vitro fertilization outcome when acupuncture was performed around the time of oocyte retrieval and found no difference in the clinical pregnancy rate between the two groups [relative risk (RR) = 1.06, 95% confidence interval (CI) 0.82-1.37, P = 0.65]. Likewise, nine trials (n = 1993) reported in-vitro fertilization outcome when acupuncture was performed around the time of embryo transfer and showed no significant difference in the clinical pregnancy rate (RR = 1.16, 95% CI 0.92-1.48, P = 0.22). SUMMARY: Currently available literature does not provide sufficient evidence that adjuvant acupuncture, whether performed at the time of oocyte retrieval or embryo transfer, improves in-vitro fertilization outcome. On the basis of this evidence, acupuncture should not be recommended during in-vitro fertilization to increase its success rate.

In respect of the BMJ article - here is the link to the full article, the acknowledged limitations include the inclusion of 3 of 7 trials from abstracts (methodological data missing), publication bias, interpretative bias (4 unblinded trials), gross heterogenity among trials etc etc. One should also observe that there was probably unjustifiable selection of the trials for inclusion.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/336/7643/545?view=long&pmid=18258932


So the problem remains, we have a technique that has no logical basis for efficacy and trial designs that cannot fully exclude the effects of chance or bias. It is evident that this will run and run.