Doctors want less money spent on homeopathic remedies

[doubting thomas]

Top news this morning 6.30AM on Radio 5 live.

A group of doctors have written a letter saying they want less money spending on complimentary medicine because there was no evidence that they work.

At last, but i bet the believers will still flock round to their local "health food" shop.

Radio 5 live were taking messages by text so i got one in myself
quote:-
Stories of homeopathic cures are just anecdotes not evidence of anything.

Result it was read out :) :) :)

[Blue Bubble]

Congratulations O0

[vbloke]

It's being discussed now on BBC Breakfast - I've emailed in as The Bad Homeopath about it.

[doubting thomas]

There's also going to be a phone-in on Radio 5 Live from 9.00AM

[Zendal Darkman]

There's also going to be a phone-in on Radio 5 Live from 9.00AM

I expect Radio 2 will have one as well.
No doubt full of callers with their personal testimony about how fantastic and 'safe' it is.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5007118.stm

[Blue Bubble]

Big debate on Radio 5 right now ...

Victoria Derbyshire, the presenter, is actually doing a pretty good job.

Claire Wilson (New Scientist) is also batting well.

[Admin]

It's good to see some opposition to this from the people who can really make a difference. O0

I'll watch it on the lunchtime news.

[Mongrel]

The Times has a copy of the letter here (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2191985,00.html) Refreshingly brutal :)

First, there is now overt promotion of homeopathy in parts of the NHS (including the NHS Direct website). It is an implausible treatment for which over a dozen systematic reviews have failed to produce convincing evidence of effectiveness.

[Jocky]

There's also going to be a phone-in on Radio 5 Live from 9.00AM

I expect Radio 2 will have one as well.
No doubt full of callers with their personal testimony about how fantastic and 'safe' it is.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5007118.stm


Spot on Zendal, I'm afraid :( I've been listening while in an office with other people, and unable to call in >:(

[Admin]

The trouble with the polls is that they are asking whether CAM should be funded on the NHS or not. This normally gets a fairly high positive response.

The question should be: should CAM be funded on the NHS in place of treatments which have been proven to work?

That's the real issue. We have women, for example, battling to get herceptin because it is expensive to fund but the NHS is spending (my estimate) around £20,000,000 a year on dishing out sugar pills in 5 homeopathic hospitals.

Yes that's a very small percentage of the overall NHS budget, but it's not an insignificant amount of money.

[Blue Bubble]

The trouble with the polls is that they are asking whether CAM should be funded on the NHS or not. This normally gets a fairly high positive response.

The question should be: should CAM be funded on the NHS in place of treatments which have been proven to work?

That's the real issue. We have women, for example, battling to get herceptin because it is expensive to fund but the NHS is spending (my estimate) around £20,000,000 a year on dishing out sugar pills in 5 homeopathic hospitals.

Yes that's a very small percentage of the overall NHS budget, but it's not an insignificant amount of money.


That's spot on, John. I think David Colquhoun mentioned a figure of £4million in his piece on the Jeremy Vine show. The £20million was for the refurbishment of the lunatic asylum (you know the place I mean ...)

[vbloke]

Several comments I've read about the costs involved in homeoapthy are woefully misguided.

They're saying that homeopathy costs a fraction of conventional medicines, so it saves the NHS money.

That is, assuming that the millions of gallons of alcohol or water used to dilute the remedies are free.

The other big cost would be in people going running back to hospital when the homeopathic remedy fails to cure them.

[Jocky]

And what about the cost of lots of homeopaths sitting around succusing all day? :D

Or does the NHS buy the stuff from a commercial supplier on trust that it really has been used to dilute a mother tincture to destruction, and isn't just a batch of unadulterated diluting agent >:(

[vbloke]

Nowadays you can buy succussing machines - I kid you not.

Mind you, they cost a fortune.

[Jocky]

Here was me thinking that you had to succuse by hand, in a particular woo-way.

Maybe I'm out of date with all-new shiny 21st-century technological woo ...

You still need lab staff to load and unload the machines though, and keep track of to what incredible degree you've diluted each batch ...

[Mojo]

Nowadays you can buy succussing machines - I kid you not.

Mind you, they cost a fortune.But you can post nice pictures of them on forums...

[vbloke]

that look about as hygienic as a builders kettle and appear to have been taken in 1977

[Admin]

That's spot on, John. I think David Colquhoun mentioned a figure of £4million in his piece on the Jeremy Vine show. The £20million was for the refurbishment of the lunatic asylum (you know the place I mean ...)


I wasn't even including the £20million for the refurbishment work. ???

David managed to get a figure of close to £5,000,000 a year to run the London Homeopathic hospital. There are also 4 others although they may be smaller. So a figure of around £20,000,000 a year is my guesstimate for funding this nonsense.

[Aardvark]

How would trading standards approach a claim made by a genuine person that the 30c tincture of bryony did not contain what it said on the label.

[Mongrel]

How would trading standards approach a claim made by a genuine person that the 30c tincture of bryony did not contain what it said on the label.

Hard to prove one way or the other - they'll just say it's 'magic water' (my para-phrase) and it's hard to disprove that level of quality :P. What they'd probably rely on is the certification that the manufacturers have followed the appropriate procedure for production and cleanliness to make sure it's uncontaminated

[Admin]

How would trading standards approach a claim made by a genuine person that the 30c tincture of bryony did not contain what it said on the label.


I think the label only states: ingredients - lactose.

Which is both true and accurate. ;D

[Aardvark]

What is the homeopathic remedy for lactose intolerance ::)

[vbloke]

well, according to homeopathic laws, lactose!

diluted to 30C, mind.

[Nucular]

How did this news story go from all over the headlines, to not even linked to on the BBC news website or 'have your say' in about 20 hours?

On Tuesday I heard it as the first news item on the way into college at 7.00am, coming back at 7.00pm Charles' speech was about fourth news item, next day not a mention, and shunted down the BBC website to the small print ones. Then today, couldn't even see it.

I texted in some comments to PM on Radio 4 (they had only a pro-homeopathy speaker who was infuriating), and they mentioned they were inundated with texts and emails, so they'd do a full round-up on Friday (5.00pm, R4) - I wonder if they actually will.

These things just can't stay in the news long enough for anything to actually get done about them!

[Blue Bubble]

Seconded Nucular.

That's exactly what I was thinking. >:(

[Admin]

It's very much a problem with news reporting. Big news one day and forgotten soon after.

Still, I think it did a great job of usurping Prince Charles's authority in promotioning sCAM on the same day.

We need more of this kind of thing to keep a sustained pressure on those responsible for making decisions with taxpayers' money.