Crazy cancer article

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

I'm in NI at the moment, and was absolutely shocked to see this article in the local paper.

It is incredibly irresponsible, because if you don't read the article very carefully, you will think that she has achieved something. However the footnote at the bottom makes it clear that she was healed by surgery she had.

Of course we are used to seeing crap in newpapers but I felt this article was particularly irresponsible. If it takes one person away from their treatment, it has caused severe damage.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/i-quit-the-cancer-treatment-and-got-better-my-own-way-1244632.html



Two years ago, Alison Kelly was at death's door. She had initially been told the lump on her left breast was benign and not to lose a night's sleep over it. Subsequently, she was found to have advanced-stage cancer and underwent a mastectomy.
But it wasn't the disease, she believed, that was in danger of killing her; it was the cure. After suffering a profoundly negative reaction to chemotherapy, the 47-year-old Drogheda woman did something that most cancer patients wouldn't contemplate.
She abandoned her treatment and walked away from conventional medicine.
By all accepted healthcare standards, it was a crazy thing to do. She was potentially signing her own death warrant. Convinced that she had little choice, she embarked on a complex 'natural holistic' programme of treatment, devised by herself, based around diet and meditation. Not only is she still around to tell her tale, she looks the picture of good health.
Her apparent full recovery from breast cancer is either a testament to her steely resolve to pursue an alternative route or it's the result of incredible good fortune. She believes that it's all down to her decision to take back control of her condition from the medical profession.
Sitting in the front room of her home this week, she declares brightly: "I actually feel healthier than I have ever felt in my adult life. I have more energy than I had when I was in my twenties."
Ms Kelly is a mother of two and a qualified psychotherapist. One of the tools she uses in her work is hypnosis. She also teaches meditation and stress management.
In March 2003, she was referred to a specialist with a lump on her breast. She was told it was nothing to worry about. She was unhappy with his assessment, but decided to accept it. A subsequent ultrasound scan found nothing. Convinced that things weren't right, she attended the breast clinic again in January 2005. Her lump was bigger and there were other changes in her breast. This time, she was found to have advanced cancer, which had spread locally. Surgery followed, with chemotherapy afterwards.
......
......

And the footnote, which I am relieved they at least printed:



It is not common for cancer patients to walk away from conventional medicine, says Dr John Kennedy, consultant medical oncologist at St James Hospital, Dublin. He would strongly urge people not to do so.
"A very large number of breast cancer patients are cured just by surgery. So you can go out and you can paint your head blue, or live under a car or go and eat twigs, and it doesn't matter, you're probably still cured by your surgery.
"In many instances, we would give chemotherapy or hormonal therapy or radiotherapy to patients who have had surgery because we know from carefully conducted clinical trials that this gives them a higher chance of being cured than people who don't have those treatments.
"If a patient who goes off and has coffee ground enemas, ground up peach pits and God knows what else, there's no evidence whatsoever, just because that patient is fine, that those treatments have done anything for her. This is the kind of thing that the alternative medicine industry thrives on," says Dr Kennedy, who is chairman of the Irish Cancer Society medical committee.
"There are quite a number of patients who take these so-called alternative treatments along with their systemic therapy. I would have less of a problem with that, because they are still getting the treatment that we know helps them."

[bobdezon]

So the cancerous breast was excised from her body, she then underwent a course of chemo which made her sick. She gave up the chemo and started meditating and changing her diet and now she attributes her cure to her own regime? ::)

I wonder how well her regime would have helped her if she had decided to do this before the surgery and chemo. That is utterly idiotic. I applaud the paper for adding that at the bottom of the article though, because usually they just do the amazing top part.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

Well, The article I seen was in the Belfast Telegraph. And the headline was something like "Amazing Cancer Case that everyone in the South is talking about". So I wouldn't be too kind on them.

I was really surprised to see the bit at the bottom printed though, but how many people would look beyond the headline and a picture of a cured woman?

And her final comment in the article?


"I certainly won't be visiting an oncologist again," she says.


I don't hold much hope for her survival chances if cancer returns then.

[Julia]

In a nutshell:
Surgery is frightening and unpleasant but it increases a cancer patient's chances of survival.
Chemotherapy has horrible side effects but it increases a cancer patient's chances of survival.
Alternative treatments (usually) don't involve surgery and don't have side effects but they do bugger all except line the pockets of quacks. >:-)

[Blue Wode]

This sort of thing seems to be very closely related to the nonsense that HRH’s woo outfit is encouraging. Here’s the latest from the newly re-styled Foundation for Integrated Health website:



CAM offers opportunities for patients to gain control over and participate in treatment. Qualitative studies suggest that people who use CAM are attracted to and value the opportunities it affords them to regain a sense of control over their illness and treatment. Similarly patients value the participatory therapeutic relationships that are usually fostered by CAM practitioners.

http://www.fih.org.uk/integrated_health/empowering_the_patient/why_do_patients_turn.html (http://www.fih.org.uk/integrated_health/empowering_the_patient/why_do_patients_turn.html)



Interestingly, it doesn’t seem to offer a solution to the CAM ‘lying dilemma’:

·In the absence of specific research, it seems reasonable to suppose that individuals who are susceptible to placebo effects, will get the best results if their treatment is surrounded by as much impressive mumbo jumbo as possible.
·This suggests that, in order to maximixe the placebo effect, it will be important to lie to the patient as much as possible, and certainly to disguise from them the fact that, for example, their homeopathic pill contains nothing but lactose.
·Therein lies the dilemma. The whole trend in medicine has been to be more open with the patient and to tell them the truth. To maximise the benefit of alternative medicine, it is necessary to lie to the patient as much as possible.


http://dcscience.net/?page_id=10 (http://dcscience.net/?page_id=10)


The new site also carries articles on ‘nature’ prescribing on the NHS and town planning for health. You have to wonder if it’s pushing these ideas in order to justify its existence once the sCAM fad (hopefully) starts to fade.

http://www.fih.org.uk/index.html (http://www.fih.org.uk/index.html)

Getting back to CAM for cancer, here’s a couple of great skeptical articles by prominent oncologists:

Alternative medicine ‘intellectually dishonest’ – cancer specialist
http://www.irishmedicalnews.ie/articles.asp?Category=news&ArticleID=15417 (http://www.irishmedicalnews.ie/articles.asp?Category=news&ArticleID=15417)

Cancer Quackery Examined
http://www.skeptics.com.au/journal/2001/1_lowenthal.pdf (http://www.skeptics.com.au/journal/2001/1_lowenthal.pdf)

[Cuddles]

CAM offers opportunities for patients to gain control over and participate in treatment. Qualitative studies suggest that people who use CAM are attracted to and value the opportunities it affords them to regain a sense of control over their illness and treatment. Similarly patients value the participatory therapeutic relationships that are usually fostered by CAM practitioners.

Interesting that it doesn't even bother pretending that sCAM works. It's just a blatant appeal to popularity.

[Fiona]

I am old fashioned perhaps, but to be perfectly honest I don't want
to gain control over and participate in treatment.. This is because I am not a doctor, and my opinion is worthless.

[Nasib]

In a nutshell:
Surgery is frightening and unpleasant but it increases a cancer patient's chances of survival.
Chemotherapy has horrible side effects but it increases a cancer patient's chances of survival.
Alternative treatments (usually) don't involve surgery and don't have side effects but they do bugger all except line the pockets of quacks. >:-)
I wouldn't rule out all alternative treatments altogether and place them in this category, though.

I've had the surgery, although lumpectopy, not masectomy.
Alongside the intensive 8 week daily radiotherapy that followed, the hospital offered complementary alternative therapy to those that wished to avail, all carried out freely on a voluntary basis by experienced practitioners.
Probably the worst side effects with surgery and chemo & radiotherapy are those of a psychological nature. Many of the patients receiving this complementary therapy were terminal. Aromatherapy massage was one of the options on offer and one found to offer great benefit, both physically and psychologically, especially for those diagnosed as terminal, due to the its "nurturing" effects alone. The aromatherapy, given immediately after the radiotherapy session, left me feeling very relaxed (and nurtured). I also chose to have a couple of Reflexology sessions. Never before having experienced this I wasn't quite sure what to expect from it. The first few seconds into that session, from my feet alone, the Reflexologist was able to pinpoint an imbalance in the lumber region resulting in a long-suffering back problem of mine - and work directly on that area just by manipulating the specific connected pressure points on my feet. A trapped nerve in my neck was also located and worked on in the same way. Diagnosis and instant relief all in one, not connected (directly) to the reason why I was there in the first place. For those people, like myself, who are physically allergic to certain toxins and drugs, (e.g. Penicillin), an alternative holistic approach can certainly have a huge benefit on a person's wellbeing.

[JJM]

I wouldn't rule out all alternative treatments altogether and place them in this category, though.You should. You have no idea how things would have gone without "alternative" treatments. You wasted time and money, even if your insurance paid for it. Massage is the one practice you mentioned that provides comfort that was not born in quackery.

[Nasib]

You should. You have no idea how things would have gone without "alternative" treatments.

No, I have no idea how things would have gone without, and would certainly not have attempted trying to find out. I think you misunderstood me, JJM. These treatments were being offered on a complementary basis - i.e. as well as the other regular treatment.



You wasted time and money, even if your insurance paid for it. Massage is the one practice you mentioned that provides comfort that was not born in quackery.


My time was definitely not wasted; the aromatherapy served to ease and relax the effects of a pretty traumatic session of radiotherapy treatment, and from the Reflexology alone I received instant beneficial relief for pre-existing conditions not connected to the cancer.

My money was not wasted, as here in England we are very privileged to have the benefit of the free National Health Service which is readily available to every single citizen, whatever their financial status. Granted, every employed individual contributes to the system (National Insurance) where a nominal sum is taken out of their salary/wage packet. Having been in continuous employment and contributing to that system for 36 years, and the first time ever having to avail of it, I think my entitlement may have some justification on that occasion.
The complementary alternative treatment was also offered by the Hospital - free, I did not have to part with one penny - but having said that, now that I have the positive experience of how the reflexology worked for me, I would be quite happy to pay out in the future for such a service should I find the need to do so.

[seren]

Fiona:

I am old fashioned perhaps, but to be perfectly honest I don't want to gain control over and participate in treatment. This is because I am not a doctor, and my opinion is worthless.

Just interested to find out if you have a chronic condition or are otherwise under the long-term care of health professionals? If so your input is interesting to me professionally.

Many long term health care users say the opposite; one quote I use regularly (paraphrased) is someone saying they felt they had ceded control of their life to clinicians, and that for people like him involvement in their own care is crucial, because their quality of life depends on it.

In general there's a remarkable lack of appreciation of patients as people amongst healthcare professionals. Going through the process- presentation to GP, referral, investigation etc, it kind of dehumanises people, seeing hundreds like healthcare professionals do it kind of inevitably makes them into "cases" rather than individuals with lives outside their condition. One other quote I use a lot is from a professional who, when asked what patient involvement means, replied "it's about them doing what they're told, when they're told, and that's it".

In short, doctors know about diseases and pharmacists know about medicines, but you also have to think about the people that have the diseases and take the medicines; their circumstances and lives. Your opinion on your condition is not worthless, in fact in one sense you are an expert because you live with it every single hour of every single day; you live the disease and you live the treatment. Your doctor does not.

You as a patient should seek to know your condition, your GP and your PCT, so you understand the restrictions you may have on the availability of medicines locally and the thinking behind some of your doctor's decisions.

Furthermore, understanding your condition, how your treatment works and what you can do to help also helps you feel in control of it. Depression is a major feature of many long term conditions and (don't ask me to provide stats cos I'm not googling at this time of night but I'm sure it's broadly true) feeling that you are not in control will exacerbate that.

That's not to say there aren't times when you just accept expert opinion; I certainly wouldn't argue with my GP over which antibiotic to take as I haven't a clue, but if you're living with a long term condition and taking medicines with side-effects and contraindications, dealing with pain every day and having your life impinged upon, I don't think it would be a good idea to just passively accept whatever your doc tells you to do.

[JJM]

{snip} The complementary alternative treatment was also offered by the Hospital - free, I did not have to part with one penny - {snip}You idiot, you paid for it in your taxes and the "nominal fee" in your "wage packet."

[Nasib]

You idiot, you paid for it in your taxes and the "nominal fee" in your "wage packet."

I hope you can justify the idiocy referred to there.
How was my time wasted?
How was my "money" wasted?

[Cuddles]

How was my time wasted?

Did the "complementary" therapy take any of your time? Yes? Then it was time wasted.


How was my "money" wasted?

You pay taxes? Is so, you wasted your money. If not, you wasted someone else's money which is even worse.

[Julia]

Oh, fer pete's sake! NO form of treatment from the NHS is free, it's paid for by your taxes. That's precisely why sceptics are opposed to complementary medicine being available through the NHS. ::)

[Nasib]

Did the "complementary" therapy take any of your time? Yes? Then it was time wasted.

Yes. 30 minutes session - and time very well spent, thank you. Very beneficiary. It would also have taken "time" from the many terminal cancer patients there also, some of whom I spoke with and befriended, and where I've absolutely no doubt whatsoever the "time" given to them proved invaluably precious. The "time" spent by the caring people who administered the treatment to them being just as invaluable.

You pay taxes? Is so, you wasted your money. If not, you wasted someone else's money which is even worse.

Yes, I pay taxes, and very happy in the knowledge that I could receive some worthwhile benefit from that, and also to witness the appreciation of others in a pretty lonely, scary juncture of their lifetimes.

[Fiona]

@ Seren. No I do not have a long term condition and I do not disagree with anything you have said about the importance of participation in the management of such conditions. I agree that chronic illness is very depressing and that being involved is a good thing. I should have made it clear that I was only speaking of short term and, for want of a better word, curable conditions. I am lucky in that I have only had such short term illnesses so far. And when I do I really do want a doctor to diagnose and recommend treatment without necessarily explaining all he or she has considered in coming to that conclusion. I am not trained to understand; I do not have the experience and I would not understand a full explanation nor does a doctor have time to give me one. A partial explanation is sometimes comforting but I am very conscious that it is likely to be simplistic and that any decision I take which is at odds with the doctor's view is likely to be wrong. I am not suggesting I have blind faith and I do not want medical professionals to pretend to certainty where they have none. But I do respect experts who have devoted years to a subject and I do take a lot on trust. I cannot think that is wrong really

[lara123]

>:-)


Yes, I pay taxes, and very happy in the knowledge that I could receive some worthwhile benefit from that, and also to witness the appreciation of others in a pretty lonely, scary juncture of their lifetimes.

nasib,i used to work with cancer patients[nursing],people with all sorts of disabilities and also the terminally ill.A few of them had aromatherapy and reflexology.I've not tried either,but these people said it did make a difference to their quality of life,the comfort and nurturing for them was priceless and beneficial.

If my loved ones had gone through what you had gone through,i would'nt care if mud slapped on them made them feel better.To call you an idiot is disgusting.Where is the compassion here? You told your story,a personal story at that,and then you get called that!

and cuddles,you have no right to tell nasib her time was wasted.She can do whatever she likes with her time,its none of your business.

Nasib, you are owed an apology here.I suggest if you dont get that,to consider walking,because i'll walk right with you.

[Cuddles]

To call you an idiot is disgusting.

Did you even bother reading the posts in question? Nasib claimed that the treament didn't cost a penny. JJM called him an idiot because that is simply not true, as Nasib later confirmed.


and cuddles,you have no right to tell nasib her time was wasted.She can do whatever she likes with her time,its none of your business.

Actually, I have every right. The therapies under discussion do nothing. If it takes time, that is time wasted. It's that simple.


Nasib, you are owed an apology here.I suggest if you dont get that,to consider walking,because i'll walk right with you.

This is a skeptics site. If you're going to get offended by people pointing out frauds, you might as well leave right now.

[Blue Wode]

if you're living with a long term condition and taking medicines with side-effects and contraindications, dealing with pain every day and having your life impinged upon, I don't think it would be a good idea to just passively accept whatever your doc tells you to do.

It probably wouldn’t be a good idea to just passively accept whatever CAM practitioners tell you to do either:



Several years ago our unit, with the help of several practitioners of CAM, ran courses familiarising conventional practitioners with the essentials of CAM. Part of this programme was a round of discussions where we debated various approaches to treating certain conditions, e.g. back pain and insomnia. We asked participating practitioners (conventional and complementary) to outline how they would go about caring for such patients. At the end of these debates, the consensus invariably was that conventional practitioners were more holistic in their approach than complementary therapists.


It is exceedingly difficult to generate quantitative data on the issue of holism. How does one quantify holism? I know of no research study that addresses this question. Two recent pieces of investigative journalism are the closest I have come so far to obtaining hard evidence. In the first study, a journalist pretending to suffer from a curable cancer consulted six complementary practitioners whom he identified at random from the telephone directory. All of them advised him to take unproven treatments at staggering costs. None of these practitioners even attempted to take a holistic approach.3 (http://www.medicinescomplete.com/journals/fact/current/fact1104a02t01.htm#fact1104a02t01b0003)


In a similar study, a journalist pretended to need advice about travelling into a malaria-affected part of the world. She consulted 10 professional homoeopaths, all of whom prescribed ineffective homoeopathic remedies for malaria protection. None of them chose to assess their patient holistically, e.g. to advise about lifestyle and protection, show concern about medical history, etc.4 (http://www.medicinescomplete.com/journals/fact/current/fact1104a02t01.htm#fact1104a02t01b0004)


Further evidence originates from a small recent survey.5 (http://www.medicinescomplete.com/journals/fact/current/fact1104a02t01.htm#fact1104a02t01b0005) I wrote to 95 British professional CAM organisations in an attempt to analyse their attitudes related to the safety of their respective therapies. The results showed a surprising level of denial; safety issues seemed not to be an issue for many of these organisations. I would argue that caring for the whole person also means caring about his or her safety.

http://www.medicinescomplete.com/journals/fact/current/fact1104a02t01.htm (http://www.medicinescomplete.com/journals/fact/current/fact1104a02t01.htm)

[lara123]

Did you even bother reading the posts in question? Nasib claimed that the treament didn't cost a penny. JJM called him an idiot because that is simply not true, as Nasib later confirmed.

Nasib meant it didn't cost a penny straight out,nasib was well aware it come out of her taxes,which she stated she felt justified to have after 36 yrs of contributing.

Actually, I have every right. The therapies under discussion do nothing. If it takes time, that is time wasted. It's that simple.

Nasib stated the reflexology gave INSTANT results in a condition which was not related to the cancer,and the aromatherapy gave nurturing effects.Nasib stated her time was not wasted.It was not your time,not your story,no time was wasted for her at all,it was her time well spent.I read the posts thankyou,seems like you didn't,

This is a skeptics site. If you're going to get offended by people pointing out frauds, you might as well leave right now.

What fraud was you pointing out here.You wasn't there when nasib had these instants results so you cant point out this story as fraud.If you know different on other practitioners ,good for you,they should be exposed.

You are right,this is a skeptics site.So be skeptical then instead of stating people are wasting their time when they have been through a traumatic time,received treatments that WORKED for them.

[Mongrel]

What fraud was you pointing out here.You wasn't there when nasib had these instants results so you cant point out this story as fraud.If you know different on other practitioners ,good for you,they should be exposed.

You are right,this is a skeptics site.So be skeptical then instead of stating people are wasting their time when they have been through a traumatic time,received treatments that WORKED for them.



So why not call it "A nice relaxing massage"?
Why add layers of unsubstantiated and unverified BS?

[Nasib]

This is a skeptics site. If you're going to get offended by people pointing out frauds, you might as well leave right now.

IMO and experience, the pointing out of "frauds" here is sometimes thrown in the wrong direction.
When my GP retired all her existing patients were automatically transferred to another practice but welcome to register with a different practice if this alternative practice was not to our liking. This new practice was not easily accessible for me travelwise, and also preferring a female doctor which he was not, I applied to three other practices much closer to home. In each case I was informed the only new registrations they could take on were for "those who do not have a GP in this country"...!! So I had no choice but to stay with this transfer. The Receptionist who had been at my old practice for 20 odd years was transferred over also. She quit after one month on finding out the horrendous way in which this surgery was operated. Encountering so many instances of malpractice personally, and with absolutely no faith in this "qualified" GP, I kept my own comprehensive personal medical file.
quote from Seren:

You as a patient should seek to know your condition, your GP and your PCT, so you understand the restrictions you may have on the availability of medicines locally and the thinking behind some of your doctor's decisions.

and

One other quote I use a lot is from a professional who, when asked what patient involvement means, replied "it's about them doing what they're told, when they're told, and that's it".
One example -(and this is only the tip of the iceberg) on an occasion prescribed 3 separate drugs for what was a short-term problem, & told these must be taken indefinitely, with repeat prescriptions over a period of about a year and half - despite my insistence that at least one of them was actually causing problems that were not there before, it was inferred that I would have to take these tablets for the rest of my life. 2 of them I stopped of my own accord but one (Atonolyl - may not be correct spelling) must not be stopped without GP's authorisation. Meantime, finding out that this "registration" rule referred to above seemed to have altered, I eventually left & registered elsewhere close to home. (I have since discovered that I am not the only one to hold concerns regarding this other practitioner - known amongst the medical circle, and countless ex-patients of his as "Dr Death").
Well, not surprisingly, my new GP has had no luck in obtaining my medical history from the surgery of Dr Death, but luckily I had my own records. As with any new patient a complete health check is required, blood tests etc, and included in my case an ECG. The ECG recorded my heart rate at a dangerous level of 43 (average should have been in the 70 range) and the doc at the hospital verified that this was solely contributed to the fact that I was taking Atonolyl & phoned my GP stating quite categorically that it should be stopped (altho have to wean off it, can't stop suddenly). This I have now done - and I can thankfully say healthwise I'm in A1 condition & no medication whatsoever required.
That particular GP (Dr Death) is currently involved in several actions where individuals are in the throes of suing him personally; he is lying through his teeth in defence - and that FRAUD is STILL PRACTISING! How can this situation be allowed to continue?

[Nasib]

>:-)



nasib,i used to work with cancer patients[nursing],people with all sorts of disabilities and also the terminally ill.A few of them had aromatherapy and reflexology.I've not tried either,but these people said it did make a difference to their quality of life,the comfort and nurturing for them was priceless and beneficial.


If my loved ones had gone through what you had gone through,i would'nt care if mud slapped on them made them feel better.To call you an idiot is disgusting.Where is the compassion here? You told your story,a personal story at that,and then you get called that!


and cuddles,you have no right to tell nasib her time was wasted.She can do whatever she likes with her time,its none of your business.


Nasib, you are owed an apology here.I suggest if you dont get that,to consider walking,because i'll walk right with you.

Thank you, Lara :smiley:

Yes, it was quite hurtful to receive that comment and I had secretly hoped for an apology, albeit even just a confirming 'grunt' - I did ask for its justification, but received nothing but a blank from the source and further tunnel-viewed comments from elsewhere.

Rather ironic to note that when I made the (substantiated) suggestion that perhaps the pointing out of 'frauds' could be directed in a different area, no response of any kind was given to that.

I'm beginning to realise that not only are there many on here possessing that collective tunnel-vision, but many are actually hopelessly stuck in the tunnel itself.

[Mongrel]

And I'd still like to know why they just can't call it a nice relaxing massage?

That can make you feel better and reduce stress\tension without any of the new age bollix...